This domain's a homage to Doctor Who, Blake's 7, Earth: Final Conflict, and Batman I enjoy. Pictures added along w/ blogs, reviews, & news. Comments & posts from other sites re-posted under the BLOGS. Thx for stopping by. Enjoy!
***I'm a newbie to Doctor Who, and am trying to figure out what is the definitive number of DW eps that have aired since '63? I'm talking about individual airings, NOT serial episodes taken together as one unit. Wikipedia says that it's 798 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_serials). IMDb is more coy about listing ep sums for shows: you have to click on an individual episode and read where it says "x of y Episodes," where "y" is the total number.
According to IMDb then, the original series had 695 eps and the current series has 111. IMDb does not count the TV movie as an episode for obvious reasons, but Wiki does. By IMDb's reckoning then, if we count the movie, that would make for a grand total of 807 eps, 9 more than Wiki's reckoning.
I counted all the eps for the current series according to Wiki and came up with 102 (revived), but I think that discrepancy is easy to figure out. Wiki is only counting aired episodes, whereas IMDb counts 2 eps from the current series that haven't aired yet: the 50th Anniversary Special (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2779318/) and the first ep of the next season (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2986512/) which doesn't even have a title or air date.
So that leaves 7 eps in the old series that IMDb is counting, but Wiki doesn't. I don't feel like counting the eps of the old series myself, but maybe someone at least has a clue as to how this could be? ---
The original Series had 699 individual eps making up 159 stories - Well, I'm at least convinced that the # of aired eps for the revived series is 109, so together with 699 that would make 808, 10 above Wikipedia's count (unless you weren't counting the TV movie as part of the original series, in which case the total would be 809). Either Wiki is way off, or I miscounted the eps of the revived series. ---
That's where you're going wrong
13 episodes in series 1 The Christmas Invasion
13 episodes in Series 2 The Runaway Bride
13 episodes in series 3 Voyage of The Damned
13 episodes of series 4 The Next Doctor Planet of The Dead Waters of Mars End of Time Part 1 & 2
13 episodes in Series 5 A Christmas Carol
13 episodes of series 6 Doctor, Wardrobe and something equally as dull
13 episodes of series 7 with... The Snowmen in the middle. That...102 I think.
Prequels and Comic Relief skits I'm sure don't count. ---
It's 102. Also, I just now noticed in the Wiki article that The "Five Doctors" is counted as 1 ep broadcasted even though it has been released as 4. So whoever said there were 699 original series eps might have been counting that one as 4 eps. So subtract those 3 extra eps and the TV movie (I'm guessing) and you get IMDb's count of 695. Assuming that that squares with Wiki's reckoning of the original series eps, then add 695 to 102 plus the TV movie and you get Wiki's grand total of 798.***
I honestly don't understand how anyone on Earth can't grasp this. The Valeyard way back when was unveiled to be a "future" version of The Doctor around the time of the 12th to 13th and final incarnation. The Great Intelligence directly refers to The Doctor having other names, and name drops "The Valeyard" for the first time since, what, thirty odd years of the show introducing him?
The 11th Doctor refers to John Hurt as the one who broke the promise and cannot use the name of "The Doctor." He also says it's only him in this time tunnel, "that's the point," so it has to a previous regeneration, albeit one that didn't use the name "The Doctor." That makes Doctor 11, in fact, Doctor 12. This is "the fall of the eleventh" at Trenzalore.
Doctor 12 refers to him as "my secret," meaning up until this point, wibbly wobbly timey wimey, he's kept him hidden. This is the part where he become revealed to the wider universe, and at what time is this? The time of Doctor 12, who is due shortly to regenerate and become the 13th and final incarnation. Although Moffat will no doubt find a way to extend that regeneration limit. So...
The Valeyard is from the future around "the time of the 12th to 13th" incarnations of The Doctor.
The Great Intelligence refers to traversing time and space gathering information and that The Doctor will "become known" as The Valeyard, even though we know The Valeyard has already been seen by The Doctor himself way back when, albeit not by the wider universe. The time tunnel contains only The Doctor, meaning John Hurt is The Doctor, but not using The Doctor's Name.
That makes Doctor 11 fall to number 12, making this the time of the 12th and soon to be 13th incarnation. Every time I read about him being an older Doctor 8 (no, fall of the eleventh at Trenzalore) or something from the future (which Doctor 12 wouldn't remember) I die a little inside. ---
I would like it to be the Valeyard in some form, but I despise the idea of Eleven secretly being "Twelve." - Dorian quoted the prophecy of The Silence that "the fall of the eleventh" was waiting for him along with "the question" at "Trenzalore." I don't like it either, but there is no other explanation, unless #11 is going back to fall off a cliff at Trenzalore come Christmas.
The Silence were a religious order formed on the basis that they knew 'silence would fall' when the question was asked, b/c the universe without The Doctor is dead, but to save it they have to kill him before his victories can be rewritten by the Great Intelligence with access to his grave when the question is asked.
The Silence have discussed this, and that Tesselecta and its agency also discussed it. Dorian is the only one who ever mentioned the fall of the 11th, but then he's got a lot of contacts. Hell he knew why Demons Run was called Demons Run before a good man actually went to war. He was also quick to jump that "it is you!" when everyone else thought The Doctor was dead. He also said he knew b/c "I can feel it" meaning he likely has some kind of psychic powers (heck, he's blue and alien).
Of course The Silence had to create River to get The Doctor when simply blowing up his Tardis did not work, ironically leading to another order, The Alliance of Cyberman and Daleks and all sorts to save the universe by locking up The Doctor in The Pandorica. ...(cont.,)
...So, in series 5, The Alliance tried to save the universe from an explosion of The Tardis caused by The Silence who were trying to save the universe from The Great Intelligence entering its history like an open wound through The Doctors grave at Trenzalore, and when that didn't work The Silence used his companion's child to make a Time Lord weapon in River Song to kill him in a fixed point in time they managed to create, only for The Doctor to turn it around using a robot so that the basic criteria of him "dying" there was met. ...
The Silence themselves were always endorsing "silence will fall." It's their core belief, and it's what they want to happen, since "silence" refers to the Doctor's death. They want him dead before he can reach Trenzalore b/c if he's dead, then the Question can't be answered and his "silence" will fall. That's why the Silent in '69 said to Amy, "We do you honour. You will bring the silence." The Doctor himself explained this almost verbatim in The Wedding of River Song, but everyone seems to have collectively wiped that scene from their memories. ...it's clear that they were the ones who blew up his TARDIS.
According to Dorian's prophecy, the "fall of the 11th" is a prerequisite of the Question being asked on Trenzalore b/c it's asked at the fall of the 11th. Anything that happened in the Doctor's time tunnel could not be the fall of the 11th b/c the 'Question' had already been asked by that point. ... ---
You stated yourself that the Valeyard came about between #12-13, yet you say the only way for 11 to become 12 is if John Hurts "Valeyard" was around before as a previous incarnation. So he has to be a hidden regeneration to make up the #s and then become a future incarnation?
The Valeyard would be cool, but if anything Hurt's Doctor is a pre-requisite for the Valeyard (bumping 11 to 12), instead of being him himself, as using him to increase the #s by adding him as a past version, then having him ALSO be someone from his future who will become known, it's not making sense to me and i hope I've explained why. ---
He's The Valeyard from the time of the 12th to 13th, and his existence makes it the time of the 12th to 13th, but he was actually the 9th incarnation, he wasn't revealed to the universe at large until the time of the 12th and 13th. - "The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation."
The Time Lords would not have known he came into being at incarnation 9, b/c The Time War is Time Locked. So for him to come into play a 2nd time (first, from their perspective) in the future around the time of The 12th makes sense to them, that he came into being around then, as opposed to came back.
The Valeyard could still be the one who pulled "the moment" and be evil, if anyone is going to be a complicated villain, it's going to be The Doctor more so than The Master. They're not going to mentiong The Valeyard in the series finale, keeping the character canon, and then have Matt Smith turn into an evil Doctor at XMAS.***
***"The Valeyard, Doctor, is your penultimate reincarnation... Somewhere between your 12th and final regeneration."
From The Time Lords perspective this would be the debut of The Valeyard, not its return, b/c they wouldn't be able to know The Valeyard is incarnation 9 created in The Time War. To them, The Valeyard would come into being/be released into the universe at the time of between The 12th incarnation and 13th, which is now, b/c 11 has fallen to 12.
B/c 11 has admitted to his being, in fact, 12 now that 9 has been discovered, it will be known as "the time between 12th and 13th." Not known as "the time #9 which makes me 12 came back and by the way he blew you all to bits and time locked you."
But this when The Valeyard gets out there for the second time, out of the time lock, which The Time Lords don't know about. To them it's the time between 12th and 13th when The Valeyard appeared, and therefore must be a penultimate reincarnation "somewhere" in that time, showing how vague their knowledge is. ---
Canon has given us that The Valeyard was created some time between the 12th and 13th incarnations b/c The Time War is Time Locked ...But they do know this is the time of the 12/13. They do know this is when The Valeyard appears.
They don't know 9 and The Valeyard are the same and 9 blew them up and Time Locked that moment. B/c them knowing that and letting him do it would be stupid. Same as they don't know anything about The Time War despite knowing about post 8 Doctor's right up to the period of 12/13.
The Canon is The Valeyard appears in this 12/13 period from The Time Lord's perspective. After all, they're the ones who said it. ---
Why would they mention that old crap from the 80's and not do something new? "Trial of a Timelord" is a shoddy mess that is better best forgotten, it's the Nadir of classic Who for me and should be quietly ignored at all costs, the new series done the whole "Doctor's Evil Darkside cliche" a hell of a lot better with the Dreamlord IMO. ---
I think the Valeyard is mentioned to cite precedent more than anything else, and set up what's to come. The Valeyard is an interesting concept that was never fully explained or resolved b/c Robert Holmes died whilst completing the script, and I doubt anyone on the new series feels an obligation to it. I could be wrong, but I think Moffat is keen to do his own thing.***
***Locations outside of the UK. Moffat seems to have more than RTD by the looks of it.
RTD: - Series 1: America (in 'Dalek') - Series 2: France (in 'The Girl in the Fireplace') - Series 3: America (in 'Daleks in Manhattan' and 'Evolution of the Daleks') - Series 4: Italy (in 'The Fires of Pompeii') Germany (in 'Journey's End')
Moffat: - Series 5: Italy (in 'The Vampires of Venice') France (in 'Vincent and The Doctor') - Series 6: America (in 'The Impossible Astronaut', 'Day of the Moon' and 'The Wedding of River Song') Germany (in 'Let's Kill Hitler') Sort of Ancient Egypt but also not? (in 'The Wedding of River Song') - Series 7: America (in 'A Town Called Mercy' and 'The Angels take Manhattan') North Pole (in 'Cold War')
Moffat seems to have several countries per series, while RTD had none in S 1 and one per series since. ---
William Hartnell:
season 1: An Unearthly Child parts 2-4 are presumably set in Afrca (due to cavemen) Marco Polo is set in China The Aztecs was, obviously, set in MesoAmerica The Reign of Terror was set in France
Season 2: The Romans was set in Italy The Crusade was set in Palestine The Chase features scenes in New York and Ghana (also the Gettysburg Address on a monitor, if that counts?)
Season 3: The Myth Makers was set in Greece/Turkey/Troy (set in Ancient Troy, which makes it a pain to describe what country it's actually in..) The Daleks' Master Plan features scenes in ancient Egypt The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve was set in France The Gunfighters was set in the US (Tombstone, AZ)
Season 4: The Tenth Planet was set in Antarctica.
Patrick Troughton:
Season 4 (cont.): The Underwater Menace was set in Atlantis – but the location was on some unspecified volcanic island (i.e. not the UK) if that counts?
Season 5: The Abominable Snowmen was set in Tibet The Enemy of the World was set… basically everywhere – though primarily in Australia and “Central European Zone”
Season 6: …kinda depends where the events of The War Games actually take place.
Jon Pertwee:
….none.
Tom Baker:
Season 12: None (although The Sontaran Experiment could theoretically be set anywhere on Earth)
Season 13: Pyramids of Mars contains some scenes set in Egypt (just the opening, in a tomb though, as I recall) The Seeds of Doom has some scenes set in Antarctica
Season 14: The Masque of Mandragora is set in Italy
Season 15: None.
Season 16: None (but then, only one story was set on Earth)
Season 17: City of Death was set (and filmed) in Paris (with a scene in Italy)
Season 18: None.
Peter Davison:
Season 19: None.
Season 20: Arc of Infinity was set (and filmed) in Amsterdam.
Season 21: (Warriors of the Deep’s sea base could have been anywhere) Planet of Fire was set (and filmed) largely in Lanzarote
Colin Baker:
Season 22: The Two Doctors is set (and filmed) in Spain
Season 23: None.
Sylvester McCoy
Season 24: None.
Season 25: None (although Silver Nemesis features some scenes set in South America)
Season 26: None
And the Paul McGann TV Movie was set in San Francisco, but filmed in Vancouver.
(It’s worth bearing in mind that the seasons got gradually shorter throughout the series; Seasons 7-22 was half the length of Seasons 1-6, and Seasons 23-26 were half again. It’s not as if they just decided to stop having other countries towards the end, just that there was usually only 1 or 2 stories per season set on Earth at that point – while S 26 by necessity HAD to be set all in the UK)***
***I remember the Doctor was quite sarcastic to Tegan in 'Warriors of the Deep.'***
#5, Davison was sarcastic, but he was more impatient than anything; hating to explain stuff to the less intellectual! I think Adric frustrated him the most since he was supposed to be so smart, but asked the dumbest question at the most inappropriate time!
***Perhaps his sarcasm reached new heights in his last story, 'The Caves of Androzani,' in which he taunts Sharaz Jek at the risk of his life. ---
Which classic serial would you adapt to a film? - I mean if they were going to adapt one of the original serials into a movie (a la the 60's Dalek films) which one would you pick to be remade? I kinda lean towards The "Talons of Weng Chiang" b/c it's one of my favorites, has that great golthic Victorian London setting, and has a wonderful selection of characters.
My 2nd choice would be "The Web of Fear" b/c... well, the Doctor fighting robot Yeti in the tunnels of 60's London Underground, what's not to love? It would be difficult to see new actors take on established roles, but I think it's still an interesting hypothetical question. What would be your picks?***
"Talons..." is a good one, but if you want to make money and peek the interests of the masses, ya have to stick to the "tried and true," Daleks or Cybermen! I'd go with "Genesis...." for obvious reasons and the other in the alternate/parallel universe where the Cybermen were created by some old curmungeon that just wanted to live forever; "Rise Of The Cybermen!"
***If Moffat wanted to, could he bring back the Time Lords? - Would he be able to write a plausible explanation for their return? Questionable, since their demise was fairly implausible in the first place. But since the "totally, utterly, and absolutely permanently unbreakable" Time Lock has been broken twice, once from each side by Dalek Caan and Rassilon, what price plausibility anyway? ---
In fact it has no Bible at all; showrunners are not compelled to be consistent with the ideas of former showrunners. Witness the Deadly Assassin where the Time Lords were randomly changed from immortals to having only 12 regenerations for no other reason than they needed to supply the Master with some sort of motive.***
What was that all about in "The End Of Time?" Gallifrey blocks out our sun because Rassilon refuses to stay put! Please, no more!
***But Rasillon failed, and they are just hours before Hurt kills them all, they'd have to have a really big plan B.***
***Funny that less people knew of Time Lords when they were around. Now every hermit knows of the Time Lord and their Time War.***
Well at least he'll be anonymous to the Daleks for a while! Clara took care of that in "Asylum...!" The Silent thinks he's dead but for past regenerations running around!
***The oblivious-to-the-Doctor can only endure so long. Likely scenario is to have Davros re-jog their programming, otherwise it's just ludicrous being the only clueless baddie among Cybermen, Sontarans, ... and everyone and their mother. The resolution of the Silents lay more to them being outed. Cause how are they to be introduced now, even if they know they were duped? They would need to be "augemented." Given that the 2 are attempts to foster a "more free"/anonymous Doctor, they don't actually add up to much. ---
...But this 6th Doctor one I had a few problems with. Everything that Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant said about their time on the show was good- but there was a lot that they didn't say. To most fans, the stand-out thing about the 6th Doctor era is how controversial it was: it really polarized viewers, a lot of people criticized it for certain episodes' violence and (likely unintended, but nonetheless disturbing) misogyny, and it was during this time that the show was put on hiatus, and Colin Baker later fired without a proper regeneration. Yet aside from a brief mention of the violence controversy (largely restricted to Steven Moffatt's introduction of Vengeance on Varos), all of this was pretty much glossed over. I had really hoped to hear Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant talk honestly about these things - particularly in regards to how they both left the series - but if they did say anything about it, it got cut. Also, it is pretty bizarre that in both Peter Davison's and Colin Baker's specials, their multi-Doctor stories (which I consider to be stand-outs in both eras) went un-mentioned. What was up with that?***
The multi-Doctor episodes have always been my favorites; "The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors," & most of all "The Two Doctors" bringing Jacqueline Pearce in as Chessene; an old fave from "Blake's 7!" It's unfortunate Colin was never really accepted, but I sorta understand it! He played the character with more arrogance, but at the same time didn't have a smidge of warmth to overlook it! He always seemed he would have been happier if he were the only sentient being around while no one else was worthy to exist! lol!
***I OBSESS about the Ninth Doctor... I know it's unhealthy. - Worst Doctor, hands down.***
You must be either new to the show or very young! The worst Doctor ever? There's only been 3 since the re-boot! I can name a couple more deserving of the title! Even though I prefer Tom Baker and the Classic Who episodes, they've done the show justice for the most part considering "it's a hard act to follow" after so many years in production!
Stories 1. The Caves of Androzani (5th) 2. The War Games (2nd) 3. Logopolis (4th) 4. Planet of the Spiders (3rd) 5. The Tenth Planet (1st) 6. Time and the Rani (6th) 7. The End of Time (10th) 8. The Parting of the Ways (9th) 9. TV Movie (7th)
...Why is the Doctor saying "I don't want to go?" He's not dying, 10's just changing. Okay, each Doctor has a different personality, but they are meant to be the same person underneath.***
He got too emotionally involved maybe; Rose, Donna and her father! It did sound ridiculous; "I don't want to go!" What a whiner! I didn't care for that at all! I agree Davison's exit was the best produced and loved it except for the result of course; Colin Baker! It was good to see "Vengence On Varos" though the other night! I had forgotten that weird exit of Peri's they featured in the "Revisited!" Only Andric in "EarthShock" should be remembered for actually dying under the charge of the Doctor!
***I haven't been able to find any discussion of the Colin Baker episode of The Doctors Revisited on here yet, and I'm very curious what kinds of reactions people had. - I wish Colin Baker was able to play the Doctor for more seasons. I liked his portrayal. I also liked Davidson's portrayal but I was glad Baker didn't just play a variation on that and basically played the opposite.***
The multi-Doctor episodes have always been my favorites; "The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors," & most of all "The Two Doctors" bringing Jacqueline Pearce in as Chessene; an old fave from "Blake's 7!" It's unfortunate Colin was never really accepted, but I sorta understand it! He played the character with more arrogance, but at the same time didn't have a smidge of warmth to overlook it! He always seemed he would have been happier if he were the only sentient being around while no one else was worthy to exist!
***The specials are just meant as a brief overview of each Doctor to introduce new American fans to the classic series. While I would like them to be more in depth, there's already plenty of features on dvds that cover Doctor Who extensively. ---
I'm so glad I didn't skip 9 even after tons of people told me to start at series 5. I wouldn't have liked the show if I had. "Dalek" is one of my favorite episodes. It was the first time seeing a Dalek and watching 9 react to seeing it was so intense. I loved the "Oncoming Storm" persona. I think it's one of 9's best moments and excellent performance by CE.***
That may all be true, but that's when I really started hating ROSE! Her empathy for the Dalek got all those people killed and it didn't stop even when it ordered her to command his "destruction!" She already proved how selfish she could be when she saved her father after begging just to see him once; then twice! She was a true waste of space except the Doctor thinks she gave him more of a conscience!
I'll give it to Donna with the story centered around Pompeii!
***I can understand that, but I don't hate Rose for it. I can understand why she did the things she did; she's only human. I don't love Rose, but I don't hate her. I will say that out of the RTD companions, she is my least favorite. Donna Noble is my absolute favorite til this day. I haven't cared for any of the companions since. I wish she had stuck around a little longer.***
***...I do not agree at all with what you say about Terry Nation, sorry. First of all I think it's a bit much when people say Nation made no contribution to the Daleks. It was awful how little credit Raymond Cusick was given. I totally agree that it's the design that gave the Daleks their success, but to say Nation contributed nothing is ridiculous. Personally I refer to Nation and Cusick as the co creators of the Daleks.
Also its not true he delivered half finished scripts. I don't know where people have read that, but Philip Hinchcliff said that his first drafts were often his last drafts. Barry Lets and Terrence Dicks said he was great on dead lines and you could always count on Terry.
And as for "Genesis Of The Daleks" being all done to Bob Holmes, well Terrence Dicks said it went through very few changes. He said that all scripts are changed about a lot, but that 'Genesis' basically remained the same.
No one has ever said that everything in 'Genesis' was done entirely by Bob Holmes. He did contirbute to it obviously, probably made some of the dialogue a bit more edgy as that was his thing, but according to most who worked on it it was basically unchanged. Ironically Human Nature, one of the stories he gives Paul Cornell credit for was completely rewritten almost by RTD. If you love that story then thank RTD for a lot of it, more than you should thank Holmes for 'Genesis.'
I thinks its very unfair to accuse Nation of sexism. I ironically always thought Nation was a progressive writer, at least for his time. He always wrote strong female characters in all of his work.
The Dalek Invasion you have Jenny, a tough rebel girl. Barbara is also given lots more to do. She survives for a long while on her own without anyone's help, plows her way through Daleks, and comes up with one of the solutions to stopping them, turning the robo men on them. Just take a look at the film version where the female companion does nothing, everything Barbara does in the tv show is done by men in the film. In Daleks Masterplan you have Sara Kingdom and Katarina is even given a hero's death.
In 'Death and Planet,' okay the female characters are fairly bland, but to be fair so are all the male characters. I think people often shout sexist whenever there is an undeveloped female character, but not when there is an undeveloped male one.
In 'Genesis' you have the Thal woman who stops the Daleks and seals them in the bunker. Plus Sarah, gets more to do than Harry; she's the one who questions the Doctors decision not to kill the Daleks.
In 'Destiny' you have the Movellan woman plus Romana saves the planet and beats up the Movellan.
In 'survivors,' when he was writing it, the main character was a woman.
Finally its true that Nation did reuse certain ideas, but a close examination of many writers works will reveal that doesn't mean they are totally worthless. Holmes, a lot of the time has his stories about a mad man who was once powerful; Sutekh, Magnus Creel, Morbius, Sharaz, Jeck, Linx, The Master who have been crippled, weakened, in hiding: and they are often totally motivated by hatred. "All life is my enemy" and have to rely on their deranged servants; Solon, Scarman, Irongron, & Goth to free, help him, after which their servant is often disposed of in a nasty way. He also has his foes mistaken for or being the influence for Gods; Creel & Sutekh.
Even the great Moffat has a lot of things pop up in his work that are the same. Monsters that speak in rhyme's, monsters that evoke childhood fears. People meeting the Doctor out of sinc like River and Sally Sparrow, the Doctors name being a source of great power.***
***Does it annoy you that Moffatt invited everyone including Billy Piper and the Duke of Wales to be on an episode of Doctor Who; everyone except The 8 original Doctors? - I think inviting dead people to reprise their roles would be in bad taste. They're not all dead.***
Sean Pertwee looks and sounds just like his father! I would have loved to see that!
***Regardless of how much he looks like his dad, he's not Jon, and as a result could only ever be a cosplayer.***
Been done already with "The Five Doctors!" I hardly think they brought Hartnell back to life to reprise his role in that! Richard Hurndall did a great job and was a bit more spry than the usual old man! A great story which I featured on my blog for years!
***You could just about get away with it in '83 on the basis that the closest most of the audience could possibly have gotten to actually seeing Hartnell in action would be to read a Target novelisation, else wait 4 or 5 years and see if the Beeb repeats them. Can't exactly do that these days, when seeing Hartnell in action is literally a case of typing his name into a search engine. Besides, it was rubbish then and it'd be rubbish now. I've got zero interest in seeing cosplayers, any more than the Tennant fans would be interested in seeing Richard Hammond filling in for him.***
Well we can't all be as fussy as you dude! It wouldn't bother me for stand-ins at all; esp. for an anniversary episode! Been watching since college in '79 and minor changes are to be expected; esp. with old actors!
***Why is Doctor Who so wildly popular? What makes you a fan? - I'm an American who started watching it on PBS in the late 80s, and though I persuaded one or two friends to watch it, I was the only person I knew who actually loved it. Twenty-five years later, it's weird enough to live a world where Doctor Who is so popular; it's even weirder when people say "I've seen this Doctor Who and I don't see what the fuss is about!" I guess it either captures your imagination or it doesn't.***
Agreed! I have always been into sci-fi and my college roommate got me to watch it in '79! It was cheesy and low budgeted, but what sci-fi series wasn't at that time! I grew up with bad classics like "Plan 9 From Outer Space!" Anything would have been a step up! Better network offerings were "V" and "V, The Final Battle;" the series beginning shortly afterwards in '85! I also started taping another British sci-fi classic in '86, "Blake's 7!" Love them both! Terry Nation is my GAWD! lol!
***Objectively, which Doctor/actor had the WORST time being accepted after the departure of the previous Doctor/actor? 3? 5? 11? Davison? Smith? I'm not as knowledgeable about the show prior to '05, so I pose this question to the more established fans.***
It's been debated here and in other places that the only person to have trouble being accepted in the series was Colin Baker! It had a lot to do with how they were writing his character I guess, but many didn't care for his absolute arrogance at all times! He was a bit dark and supposedly was affected adversely by the change; attacking Peri in a paranoid state as well! He was never a fave of mines, but I enjoyed seeing "Vengence On Varos" during the 'Revisit!' He actually talked about the subject! Catch the repeat if you can!
***I wonder why they would change his character that way? I'll definitely check out 'VOV' and more of his episodes!***
Back then we didn't have the internet and I didn't read fan magazines or check reviews in the paper! I could only guess a different production staff with new writers were at work! It was definitely a change; esp. when an entire season was taken up by my first story arc, "The Trial Of A Time Lord!" It just dragged on and on and on! Lucky for them I was already hooked and was taping the show on VHS and Beta formats! It was more a habit than anything at the time; sorta like now! I really missed Tom and Peter! They were my first 2 Doctors and Colin was a big change; in attitude anyway!
***The thing is, Davison's Doctor was a massive wet blanket and too human and vulnerable really. The intention with Colin was to make his Doctor much closer to Hartnell's; grumpy, standoffish, rude and slightly sinister - the idea being that over the years he would mellow out and become more sympathetic in the way the First Doctor had, but when the series was put on hiatus they had to accelerate this. Colin ended up being blamed for basically everything wrong with the series at that point and was sacked. ---
The 4th Doctor started the Time War in "Genesis Of The Daleks." - RTD made remarks that Classic Who encounters with the Daleks were events that lead into The War, but none were definitive catalysts of it all. ---
Wasn't "Genesis of the Daleks" the start of it all? The Timelords tried to stop the Daleks by changing their past and muddled it badly. - The Time Lords ordered The Doctor to change the way The Daleks are or if that was impossible to do he was meant destroy them utterly. He had the chance to wipe them all out and couldn't do it. He felt he didn't have the right to wipe them out. He believed although the Daleks were evil, their very presence brought other races together. Which wouldn't happen if he wiped them out. So yeah, the Time Lords fired the first shot.***
They strongly suggested he take the assignment to deal with the Daleks in "Genesis ...!" Back then, there was no talk of a "Time War" and with their inception, the Daleks hadn't any way of competing with the Time Lords! I'm not even sure they knew anything about them until Davros' 2nd encounter with Tom in "Destiny Of The Daleks" with Romana!
***The thing is, Davison's Doctor was a massive wet blanket and too human and vulnerable really. The intention with Colin was to make his Doctor much closer to Hartnell's; grumpy, standoffish, rude and slightly sinister... ---
Now you see I don't get why people say that was wrong of Colin Baker to make the Doctor unpredictable, unlikable, violent, arrogant, willing to kill his enemies. ...Eccelston made his Doctor violent to the point where he tried to blow the Dalek to bits with a gun, to the point where he burned Cassandra alive in the heat of the sun, even after he had defeated her. He also made the Doctor unpredictable, quite arrogant (in the unquiet dead his arrogance causes the problem). Colin Baker even wanted to dress his doctor like Eccelston, all in black.
Baker's Doctor much like Eccelston's was to change over time, and we were to see his more compassionate side thanks to the influence of his companions. Of course this was a hark back to Hartnells Doctor, who was a violent, unpredictable character who was changed by the influence of his companions. I think it an be quite unfair when people praise Eccelston for making the Doctor more violent, unlikeable, yet Eccelston gets so much praise for making the Doctor darker and edgier? ---
It's not the actor's decision how their Doctor turns out in the end. I mean, yes they can influence it with their acting but the broad strokes are decided by whoever runs the show and writes the scripts. As an actor there's just so much you can do when you're getting bad material to work with. Say what you want about RTD's writing, but CE got a chunk of great scripts to work with and a fantastic character arc on top. CB didn't have that luxury and from what I hear he wasn't particularly happy with what he was given.
CE's Doctor wasn't just like that for the heck of it. He had an in-story excuse for his behaviour in form of the Time War and he was suffering from PTSD and survivor's guilt which fueled his decisions you've cited above. His darker side was shown to the audience bit by bit and mostly in circumstances that are at least half justifiable. CB's Doctor on the other hand came right after the noble sacrifice of the PD's Doctor and went on to strangle his companion which all happened pretty much out of the blue* so naturally the audience will feel alienated... Bottom line, I think CB and CE are sort of in a similar situation but CE has the advantage that he had better material to work with. ---
Why, thank you! It's always a pleasure to actually have a nice discussion over here. :)
Overall I think we're pretty much on the same page - with the only difference that I like CE and Series 1 a lot more than you do. And even though some of the S1 episodes aren't exactly stellar in execution, I think the scripts have a lot of good in them or at least many well written character moments that provided CE with enough substance to work with despite all the silliness. All in all, 9 was a well rounded character, while CB got the short end of the stick in every way possible: horrible outfit, bad writers and the show going downhill as a whole that was all blamed on him - poor guy!***
***Is Galifrey still timelocked? (Name of the Doctor Spoilers) - if Galifrey is still timelocked, then how did Clara end up telling Doc 1 which Tardis to steal? I assume if the G.I. could change things in the timestream then here would be a way to get to Galifrey through the Doc's timestream. Which means it's not really time-locked anymore. ---
Interesting question. The Doctor's tomb is one giant escape hatch around the destruction of Gallifrey. Even if Hurt is the one that killed the Timelords and locked the event behind a timelock, Clara most likely would have been there at Last of the Timelords offering a big plan B... ---
Like any trap/prison/confinement/"time lock," there are always flaws in their supposed impregnability. River could come and go from the Stormcage when needed...even the Doctor had no real trouble escaping the Pandorica..and the Time-War era High Council was able to retro-actively set up a subconscious link with the Master that ALMOST let them escape the Time-Lock, so if the time comes that 'they' need to overcome the timelock, I'm sure a way will be formulated.***
...or perpetrated! I just wonder will they go against all the so called rules of time travel, limit of regenerations, and the like when they go to a new producer and Doctor?
***Between '63 and '75 there was no such thing as a limit on regenerations; there's no reason why there has to be one now. And DW has broken and rewritten its own rules of time travel so many times that it's impossible to even say what they're supposed to be any more. ---
Favorite Two Parter - The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - After that comes The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - Empty Child/The Doctor Dances - The Satan Pit/The Impossible Planet***
Those are all good when it comes to NuWho, but to invoke Classic Who, I'd choose "Genesis Of The Daleks" and "Talons Of Weng Chiang!" Romana II and Lela were featured companions respectively back then! They didn't use duel titles back then when it came to 2 parters; technically 6 installemnts over 2 days played!
***...The Classic Series Daleks were originally descended from Dals; then they weren't but were descended from Daleks created by Davros. Then Davros started creating rival Daleks, which ended up fighting the other lot; so the re-creations in '05 and '08 were hardly groundbreaking departures.***
I think you mean the Thals who were in opposition to the Kaleds on planet Skaro if you check with the episode, "Genesis Of The Daleks!" The elites mentioned were Kaled using genetic materials to create the Daleks! They were the military branch initially reminiscent of Nazis!
***The 12th Doctor should be good looking. - Seriously? All that matters is that he's a good actor and can play a 1000 year old Time Lord.***
It never mattered how DW looked, but at the end of "Logopolis," I was impressed with the youth and looks of Davison when he regenerated from Baker! Everyone in the room where I was watching went, "welllll alright!" lol! He was a cutie!
***Everyone seems to be 'over' River Song - I don't see a huge push on the forum for more appearances by River Song. I think the general feeling is that the Finale was a proper farewell for her. The end of River Song gives the show the feeling of moving into a new era. ---
That's just because some of the louder voices don't like her. Some of us think she's the best thing in it. A while back, I asked people to state their age, gender and lover/hater of River. Didn't learn a thing from the age and gender, but heard from a lot of River lovers. ---
She knew the Doctor's name in "The Name of the Doctor" b/c River was the one who answered the question and opened the tomb. We just didn't hear her say it. Somewhere between "The Wedding of River Song" and "The Name of the Doctor" he told her his real name. ---
I love both Alex Kingston and River Song, but I really believe her story is over now and to bring her back anymore would be very redundant and unnecessary. In series 7 finale it felt very much like "The End" for her. If Steven brings her back from that, then he has made the same mistake that Russell made with Rose after the end of 'Doomsday.' ---
Never really a huge River fan. I never minded her, but I always preferred episodes she was not in. She spoiled the magic of the Doctor for me. I'm hoping now that Clara is in the picture, however unpopular as this may be, River does not reappear for a while.***
I know where you're coming from! The reason she was annoying the most was because she actually knew stuff the Doctor didn't and that's a "no-no" in my book! She knew personal stuff ahead of time b/c of the sequences of their meeting starting in "The Library!" Her over-confidence just grated on me! There's only room for one ego maniac in this series! lol!
***Am I the only one...who just hates River Song? Seriously, she is just bad. Bad character, bad acting, bad one liners. They should make a plot twist where she's a Dalek in disguise or something and kill her off. (I know it would fuck up the show, but one can always dream) Also, to the few ones still hoping the Doctor could reincarnate in a woman, River is the reason why it will never happen.***
Never been a River fan since there's only room for one ego-maniac in this show! She always seems to know more than The Doctor and that's never been permitted before even with a mathematical genius like Adric! He's supposed to be the preeminent existentialist and no one else is supposed to take over that role! lol!
***From what I've been reading, 'The Name of the Doctor' was to be River Song's last episode, or more of a way to wrap up her story, but we haven't actually had an episode yet really when she actually meets the Doctor, right? Or have I missed something? As far as I can recall she has always known about the Doctor and everything he can do, but there has never been an episode where she first meets him and learns everything. It would be great to see that in contrast to 'Silence in the Library' where she knows all about the Doctor while he knows nothing about her, now being the Doctor knows all about her while she knows nothing about him. ---
Series 6 dealt with all of this. River Song's real name is Melody Pond. She is the child of Rory and Amy Williams. She was kidnapped by Madame Kovarian when she was a baby and conditioned to kill the Doctor. She then sought her parents out and was with them when they grew up. She then met the Doctor formally in the episode 'Let's Kill Hitler' when Amy and Rory summoned the Doctor to hear about his progress finding their child. She regenerated into her final incarnation after being shot by Hitler.***
I guess due to the ending, this will explain why he'll have extra regenerations after #13 in a few years! She gave up all her regenerations to bring him back as is; #11!
***For a while now, we've all known he will be getting more. Now, with the John Hurt Doctor, it will probably push them all up one, making the 12th Doctor actually the 13th and final incarnation. So as the 11th's story has focused on his death, most likely the 12th (13th, whatever) will be on getting new life. But how many should he have? Won't it get ridiculous to have a 26th, or 38th? If they give him a whole new set, it'll go up to 26. Will that just get old or not? Maybe it's nothing to worry about since maybe the show will run its course before we get too high. How many lives do you think the Doctor should have? For that matter, how do you want him to receive the new lives? ---
The Doctor has no regeneration limit. No Time Lords around to enforce the limit means the Doctor can regenerate as often as he wants. - Which episode decisively establishes that limit of twelve is imposed by the Time Lords and not a biological limit?***
True enough, but they still haven't explained that he'll have more to come! Some hear just want to blow the limit off since it was part of Classic Who with no limitations discussed since the re-boot! I explain it as River giving up all her regenerations in "Let's Kill Hitler!" We'll see when the time comes to explain why he gets another handful of regenerations in a few years!
***Actually, that doesn't work. The Doctor himself said that the regenerations were "used up" in the process of reviving him, and the Doctor also performed a similar procedure on River in 'The Angels Take Manhattan' which she described as a "waste of regeneration energy," as in, a one-way transfer that heals the recipient at the cost of the "donated" regeneration energy. Plus, it would be way too cheap. She gets to bring him back to life and boost his regeneration count in exchange for... kissing him? ---
Alright then let's all go along with your "logic" and end the show forever after the Doctor's thirteenth incarnation. I don't know about you but I certainly would not want to see the public outrage towards the BBC, if they did that.***
Who said it should end? I haven't cared as much since the re-boot! I watch the episodes once, collect them to tape as I've always done, but don't go back to have a marathon and watch them over and over, so a lot of this info slides by! My memory isn't what it used to be so like most here, I'll ask repetitive questions and give out answers sparingly since I'm just not as sure as the Classic Who info!
McCoy Revisited - 'Remembrance Of The Daleks' - It was great to see this 1 episode; alternatives could have been "Time And The Rani" or "Silver Menace!" McCoy was never a fave of mines with terrible overacting, bad sets, and juvenile scripts! "Remembrance" was pretty good and it was great to see it after all these years!
***Ace is probably the most annoying companion ever.***
Ace didn't listen and got into trouble at times, but she wasn't helpless like Amy, Sara Jane, or Mel!
***What do you think of Tom Baker? - I'd say 'best Doctor ever.' - This is very hard to believe no one really likes him, esp. considering numerous references to previous Docs the last few years.***
Of course he is; just ask him! Unfortunately he didn't want anything to do with the show even before he left! He stayed too long and it really hurt his legacy, even though he's the preeminant Doctor; the true personification of a Time Lord! I made a scarf longer than his, and see him referenced and animated whenever Doctor Who's mentioned! He's the man; Peter Davison my next fave! Very easy on the eye as said in the "Revisited!"
***He was pretty good as The Doctor though not as good as Troughton, Pertwee, or McGann. I think he over did the silliness at times. Troughton could be silly, but not too silly. Baker did though have many of the best companions: Leela, Romana I, & Romana II. ---
Sure he got silly at times, esp. under Graham Williams, but he did it for 7 years. He was given plenty of opportunities to fail, but if you add up all the successes, you have at least 3 or 4 solid years of the best that Doctor Who had to offer. If you're going to list the "best" companions and leave out Sarah Jane, it's possible our tastes are just from different planets. - He probably was in the role a wee bit too long, but Tom Baker absolutely was and still is the best Doctor ever, imo! ---
The trial sequence in "Stones Of Blood" with the 2 glowing orbs of light had me squirming with embarrassment. That's when I started to suspect Tom had maybe lasted past his best-by date.***
That hardly had anything to do with Tom! All he could do was perform; special effects notwithstanding! The show had always been operating on a shoe-string with cast members bringing in stuff from their homes and garages! I think they did a brilliant job for a series initially produced for kids back in the 60's!
***I can't believe there are negative comments surrounding Tom, he was amazing in the role. Very little before and little after could touch him IMO. The energy and charisma he brought to the role didn't appear until Tennant. Everything about his era was amazing; supporting cast, scripts, etc. Comparing the likes of 'Genesis, Weng Chiang, Robots of Death, Zygons,' etc to what came later, well you can't can you really? I love Tom Baker, and if anyone has been lucky enough to meet him, he's wonderful in person too.***
I'm just as shocked so many are coming out here trying to malign Baker; esp. when it concerns scripts, special effects, and more! He had no control over that, but he made the role his for all time in my book! Maybe they can't stand that; esp. the fans of the reboot!
***The Next Doctor is Peter Capaldi - They actually went with an older Doctor for a change. I didn't think they would tbh. I have to give them credit. - I don't know much about him other than he was in a previous episode. I'm looking forward to seeing his take on the Doctor next season.***
At first glance, I thought he was a cross between Arthur D. & Matt S.; tall, thin, sorta handsome, and older of course!
***It's a great work, now forever doomed with the distraction of Twelfth Doctor hanging around in every episode playing a guy who isn't the Twelfth Doctor. - And let me guess; "The Fires of Pompeii" is now not only double- but triple-ruined by the presence of Twelve, Amy Pond, and the Meta-Crisis Doctor.***
Gawd people, he hasn't even taken over the role and "it's all over!" Grow up please! The show's been around for 50 years, it'll survive Peter! Sheesshhh!
***Peter Capaldi's a great choice - but Steven Moffat is rubbish - First off, let me say I am a really big fan of the original series - '63 to late '80s. I never got into the new era. I thought Eccleston's accent was ridiculous. I disliked Tennant's gurning. And Matt Smith wasn't much better. The writing and stories were much weaker than the originals. Gone were the cliffhangers. I also hated the too close relationship the Doctor had with his assistants. Too much kissing. Almost bordering on having sex.
All the Doctors from Hartnell to McCoy were really good Doctors. I loved how they were avuncular figures. Sex or sexuality never raised its head - only where the assistants were concerned. And never ever was there a single thought the Doctor might have it off with his assistants; unlike recent years.
Since its return in '05, the Doctors have been way too young. Yes, Peter Davison's Doctor was just 30, but he had a superb way of not showing his youth. He really did act the part as if he was 1,000 years old. And never once was there any suggestion of love between him and his female assistants. So for me the past 8 years have been bleak. Young Doctors, sex talk, marriage, bad scripts, incoherent stories, no cliffhangers, bad acting, and awful assistants. And yet I welcome this new Doctor.
Peter looks great and he's the right age too. This should prevent any thoughts of a sexual chemistry btw his assistants - unless they introduce one who's 60 years old. My only fear is the dire Steven Moffat is still in charge. With his awful storylines, incessant boring dialogue, and stupid plots, things don't look good. Sack him and we might be okay.***
Thanks for the thoughtful post! It's hard to agree more as I'm a classic Whovian as well! Tom "IS" the Doctor as far as I'm concerned and those post talking about him as being so hated are ridiculous!
***I'm not a fan of new Who and haven't watched it for a couple of years, but Peter's an interesting choice so I'll probably tune in out of curiosity.***
That's how it is for me, but I don't watch them over and over again like I have of the classic series! I didn't remember that scene showing Micky and Martha married until the other night with repeat of "The End Of Time!" Sometimes I have to see stuff over and over for it to sink in, so I'm always full of questions about the last incarnations!
***I was in a similar situation last yr, suffering from Who withdrawal and months til Series 7 started. Big Finish is a great way to "get your fix." Personally I've really fallen in love with the Companion Chronicles range.
For my top 5 I won't limit to 1 range: Spare Parts - Main Range Home Truths - Companion Chronicles The Mahogany Murderers - CC The Silver Turk - MR Voyage to Venus - Special Releases
Though they are also pretty great and maybe in another post I'll give a brief break down. Using this: www.bigfinish.com/hubs/ranges/doctor-who - And starting from the top row:
Main Range: These are monthly releases, so far they've only used Doctors 5-8.
The Light at the End: It's their 50th Anniv. extravaganza.
Fourth Doctor Adventures: These are single disc, 2 part stories.
Bonus Releases: Some subscription options to the Main range came with exclusive/bonus stories. Most can be bought individually but some still require a subscription to get them.
Eighth Doctor Adventures: For series 1-4 these are also single disc releases, but with one episode per disc. They were influenced by the '05 TV series. Last year (2012) saw the release of a 4 story box set "Dark Eyes."
The Companion Chronicles: Mostly single disc, 2 part stories. They are stories narrated by the companions. They were originally a way to have stories with Doctors 1-4 (who couldn't [or in Tom Baker's case wouldn't] do the Main Range). However as the range grew it not only included Docs 5-8, but told stories that couldn't be told as effectively with a full cast. Its 8th and final series started in July and will finish in June '14.
Destiny of the Doctor: Co-produced with AudioGo this an anniversary series. Each month's release is a "talking book" that recaptures the era of the appropriate Doctor (i.e. Jan. = 1st Doctor). The stories work on their own, but there is an underlying arc, that will pay off (so they say) in Nov.
The Early Adventures: Coming '14 the website says "An array of brand new 4-part stories set during the early days of Doctor Who, told through narration and a full cast of actors, including the surviving leads who reprise their original roles. The black and white era of Doctor Who returns on audio!"
The Lost Stories: These are stories that almost got made on TV, but were abandoned for one reason or another. Example: Series 1 attempts to recreate the lost Sn 23, it even includes 3 of the stories originally slated for Sn 23. The 4th and final series starts next month.
Phillip Hinchcliffe Presents: A box set coming next year. The web site says "a box set of two brand new audio adventures that will evoke the tone of the series from his era. The first story in the set will be an epic 6-parter set in Victorian London, adapted by Marc Platt (Ghost Light), which will be paired with a 4-parter."
Short Trips: 4 releases, an audio continuation of the Short Trips book series they used to have. There are 8 short stories (1 per Doc) per release.
Special Releases: Was the umbrella heading given to 5 releases from late last year. UNIT Dominion a box set featuring the 7th Doctor and UNIT. Love and War a full cast audio adaptation of Paul Cornell's 1992 New Adventure. Dark Eyes mentioned earlier. Voyage to Venus & Voyage to the New World the 6th Doctor with Jago & Litefoot.
The Stage Plays. Audio adaptations of three Doctor Who related stage plays. The Curse of the Daleks, The Seven Keys to Doomsday, The Ultimate Adventure.
Unbound: 8 "what if" stories meaning they specifically aren't "canon" but alternatives. Such as, "What if the Doctor and Susan never left Gallifrey?"
Excelis: A mini-series tracing the rise and fall of the titular city. 4 stories, one each for the 5th, 6th, and 7th Doctors and the final one with Bernice Summerfield.
Doctor Who AudioGo: This is just stuff made by AudioGo but sold through the Big Finish web site so don't worry about those yet.***
***The biggest surprise for me...was seeing how hot Bonnie Langford is these days during the "Revisted." Damn, I did *not* expect that! I agree, both her and Janet Fielding. But what happenend to Katy Manning?***
She's just old; I think 66! When I saw the name, I had thought she was one of many from the series that had died of cancer! There was some grumbling they may have been exposed to something on the set so many had gone down in the last couple years including Mary Tamm!
***I like Matt Smith. I think it's a shame he's not getting another season. - I don't and can't understand all that Matt Smith hate-orade going on now. It sounds like all that hate rant before Matt's 1st episode (the 11th Hour) and all that hate rant towad David Tennant after he left the role. ---
I don't hate Matt Smith. I'll miss him, he was a great Doctor. It's unfortunate that his last series has ruined by some pretty dodgy episode-writing. Very much looking forward to Peter Capaldi now though.***
He had to go sooner or later! I had been hearing he wanted to move to Hollywood and make a go of it! Being in this lone part was terribly limiting with him being unable to work in anything else, so I wasn't surprised or feeling betrayed by his leaving! ---
All the past Doctors were good, but TOM BAKER is "THE DOCTOR!" Ask him and he'll tell you right off! lol!
***It's difficult to argue with that as Tom Baker is certainly the most iconic of all the Docs, but Pertwee I do think comes very close. Pertwee had a certain something about him that seemed to embody what the Doctor should be which was a cross betweeen a university professor and James Bond, a man of action. The smoking jackets and Old Bessie were cool as well. ---
I think I've read somewhere that it has been stated or implied that the First Doctor we've seen wasn't the first.***
The first time I heard that was evidenced with episode "The Brain Of Morbius!" The Doctor was supposedly 'mind wrestling' with Morbius who's brain had been transplanted into some creation of a scientist! He was ranting, supposedly taking the Doctor "back," but most think those pictures may have belonged to past reincarnations of Morbius, not the Doctor!
***While The Doctor himself has said that the first version we see is the first, the new show may have thown that out the window. While I think The Doctor was trying to drag him down with a trick, the only time in classic that even hinted the first was not the first was Brain of Morbius part 4. - We got that evidence in "Brain Of Morbius," but then remember the 7th Doctor in "Time And The Rani" said he was in his #7 persona? Sylvester McCoy was 7, Colin Baker was 6, Peter Davison 5, Tom Baker 4, Jon Pertwee 3, Troughton 2nd, and the 1st Doctor was William Hartnell. ---
William Hartnell was the first, and it was confirmed in 'The Five Doctors' when Richard Hurndall as the 1st Doctor told Tegan how he was "the original," though whether or not the other faces were younger versions of the First or Morbius is debatable (I vote they are Morbius.)***
***How and when were you introduced to Doctor Who? What were your intial thoughts on the series?***
I had always been a fan of sciene fiction! My college roommate told me about DW and I gave it a try in '79! I had seen the 2 Cushing/Daleks movies as a kid and hadn't connected them until later! I started taping them as soon as I bought my 1st Beta format vcr in '81, starting w/ "Destiny Of The Daleks!" After "Logopolis," they went back to "Robot" and got out all of Tom Baker! After that they gave us a sampling of Hartnell, Toughton, & Pertwee before starting Davison episodes here in Chgo!
***Maybe they should do an episode where the Master and the Daleks go into an uneasy alliance and try to defeat the Doctor and the Daleks turn on the Master; then Davros is leading the Daleks and the Master, the Doctor, Davros and the Daleks are in a 4 way battle.***
You mean like the classic "BattleStar Galactica" where Baltar is given command of a Death Star by the Imperious Leader, packed with Cylons and ships to hunt down the last remaining humans? It's so Doctor Whovian with a mix of Star Wars!
***Biggest waste of a regeneration? Which of these would you consider the bigger waste of one of the Doctor's limited lives?
- 6th Doctor/Colin Baker having his run cut short and plagued with a hiatus and the whole Eric Saward thing.
- 7th Doctor/Sylvester McCoy having the show canned on his watch and thus not getting a chance to really continue in his 'darker' portrayal of the Doctor and finish his run on the show.
- 8th Doctor/Paul McGann getting 1 tv movie and then never being asked to do the tv series.
- 9th Doctor/Chris Eccleston only getting 1 season and having it be more concentrated on Rose. ---
Definitely #8 w/ #9 a runner up. I liked McGann's Doctor and loved the Tardis console room in the tv movie. It was a crime that it didn't go to series. Eccleston got saddled with farting aliens and Rose's family melodrama, so I can't blame him for leaving.***
Chris also "wanted out!" Maybe he didn't want to be typecast! Unlike many of the other Doctors, he was a well established movie actor! Maybe he thought the show wouldn't "take" and would be cancelled after just a season! Just weird that he accepted the position, knowing the legacy it entailed! He's been running from it as long as I've been watching! Not even sure he'll acknowledge doing the show if he could help it! I've only seen this kind of animus from one other Doctor and that's "The" Doctor, Tom Baker! There was a lot of resentment those last years and he hadn't spoken well of the show until recently as far as I can tell being from the States! IF I'm wrong, someone from the Isles should let me know! This is my interpretation with what little I've heard of the "behind the scenes!"
***The very early Cybermen looked far more creepy and alien, while the 80s Cybermen looked far more commanding. Id like to see them both back w/ the old designs uses as the 'troops.' The Moff also ruined the Daleks when he re-designed them to the bloated rainbow gang.***
After all the changes over the years, it never occurred to me; just accepted it like a good Whovian would! lol! It is funny how emotional they can be when they're supposed to have none! Frustration and exasperation are the last thing that should be coming out of the leader of the Cybermen! Too weird!
***I don't recall the leader being emotional at all. But at least they weren't just blowing up the first thing that moved. That may work for some aliens, but cybermen should be more intelligent and calculated. They're not Daleks.***
While on the TARDIS, the ship that was carrying Adric went back in time! The leader was "beside" himself! You just couldn't see the physical traits that would occur on a human face because he was a machine! He was PO'd; believe me! BTW, Adric getting knocked off like that still affects me after all these years! That's not supposed to happen to a regular companion; maybe a temp. like the stewardess in "Midnight" or Kylie Minogue in "Voyage Of The Damned!"
Are you talking about Donna? If so, she's in just this one episode and then you get Martha. But Donna comes back in season 4 and is awesome. A fantastic companion. This coming from a big Rose fan. Rose is still my favorite companion. Donna comes in second.***
Of all the companions, I had such a problem with Rose; selfish, unsympathetic at times, greedy, with a true lack of common sense! It has to be all about her and how she feels! Common sense would say you can't "save your dad" or touch yourself as a baby! She was responsible for so many deaths in "Dalek" while feeling sorry for a machine! She without a doubt was one of the worst companions ever in my book! She didn't even care to break it off with Mickey, stringing him along and actually feeling jealousy when she heard he went out with another girl! She was truly pathetic! Out of the re-boot, only Martha has behaved with class, was a true professional, and doing what she could to help people at all times! It was never about just her!
No matter how much organic material is inside that pepper shaker, I'll still call them machines since they believe the only way for them to survive is to destroy all other living creatures! That's more machine than anything else to me! I'm fully aware of the workings, watching the show for well over 30 years, and taping them all! When you believe your only way to live is to annihilate everything else like Sutekh, Cybermen, & Daleks, you're a freakin' machine to me! Get over it!
***Did you think Matt Smith was going to stay until Series 7? - He'll be doing the Xmas special. Can you imagine the backlash that would arise if it turned out that they misled fans into thinking that they would get 2 more Matt episodes when in reality they would only get one; one episode in which Matt has to share the spotlight with David Tennant, Billie Piper, and John freaking Hurt? Say what you will about Moffat and co., they aren't that stupid. The Xmas special begins filming before the 50th airs, so trying to surprise us with a shock regeneration wouldn't work. And the 50th special already has enough ground to cover w/o trying to cram in a regeneration plot as well.***
It's taking less and less time to recover from a regeneration! What's with that? Pretty soon he'll just twitch his nose like Samantha on "Bewitched" and go from there! lol!
***Really enjoying The "Power of the Daleks" - I'm halfway through the story and it's striking just how brilliant Patrick Troughton is, right from the off, how subtle and layered his performance is – it's hard to believe he was carrying the programm's first changeover with no precedent.***
Troughton was one of the true, established actors out there going back decades! I've seen him in classic fair and other programs alike; powerful, knowledgeable, and quite commanding! Nothing new for him to do so well with DW! I've only seen him in a few classic episodes of DW, but I can understand why he was so popular! I loved his turn with #6 in "The Two Doctors" bringing back his old companion and my namesake, Jamie! It was as if he never left, even though it had been years! He was also great in "The Five Doctors" with Pertwee, Davison, and William Hartnell replacement, Richard Hurndall!
***Why Wasn't Paul McGann in His Doctor Revisited? - I wasn't surprised b/c some fans are very hostile towards him. ...I'm not sure when the Revisited specials were filmed to be able to compare it to what he's been filming recently. What about the Dream Lord?***
I wasn't hostile, but I wasn't accepting of McGann either! It was a tv movie for Gawd-sake! It would be like dragging Peter Cushing from the grave to give us a few words! To me, he just wasn't a real "Doctor;" a true waste of a regeneration! Sorry! - I need to watch an episode a few times for elements to sink in and I haven't given the reboot enough of my time to know exactly what was going on in that particular episode! I think I've gone down this rode before and someone posted that part of his character came from The Doctor himself; sorta like the Valeyard in "TOATL!" Whatever!
***People say this to his face at conventions. This is a great example of the reason I think that McGann didn't appear in his special. I know you don't think of this as hostile, but it really is. Aside from the actors in parodies, if you should consider any Doctor a waste of a regeneration it should be Eccleston, he only got 13 episodes and 6 books.***
I think Ec took the role because he didn't think the reboot would fly! He's an established actor who didn't want to be typecast and left prematurely!
***Doctors you twin with Bond...I alway thought Eccleston to be like Dalton, should have stayed around longer than he did. McGann is obviously Lazenby and Tennant is Brosnan...***
IIRC Dalton was only selected for those 2 Bond films in the 80's b/c Pierce was being held hostage by his contract to do "Remington Steel!" It was their option and they exercized it just to hose the franchise IMO!
***And thank goodness they did. Most people who are educated in Bond recognize that Dalton was truer in spirit to the Bond character than Brosnan or Moore. Not that they were any less Bond, but the character as created was more like Connery or Dalton. Dalton was the best thing to happen to the Bond series after the caricature of the later Moore years.***
***I think it was a stupid idea to get rid of Gallifrey and the Time Lords. What advantage is there in that? They could just ignore them instead if they didn't want them in any stories. No sense in closing doors. The new series also never explained how the Doctor could be the last Time Lord if Romana is still in E-Space. ---
Romana is not still in E-Space shortly after the events of 'TOATL,' she finished her mission there returned to Gallifrey and became President.***
You're joking? I may have heard it before, but it didn't sink in! I can't picture the scenerio that placed her in that position! As far as I knew, The Dcctor was still Lord President in absentia and only Time Lords sat "in his stead;" Flavia was one of them (from "The Five Doctors")! In "Remembrance OF The Daleks," McCoy even used the title in his warning to Davros!
***Do you have any knowledge outside of tv? Even on tele, Shada w/ the 8th had Romana (Ward) as President. She had been President thru 7th and 8th (Doctor) incarnations. She was into her 3rd for ancestor cell. - Non-TV Doctor Who stories are not presently seen as canon.***
Well even tv DW is having problems with "canon!" It started years ago! I remember in "Earthshock;" supposedly a gun couldn't be fired inside the TARDIS! Needless to say we all remember a Cyberman damaged the console and The Doctor couldn't save Adric! Thirteen incarnations is supposed to be canon, but they'll have to come up with a reason to have more regenerations if the series is to continue in a few years! I can go on, but you get the idea!
***"The fast-moving circus show" 'WHO' for the ADD generation. I was watching an old Pertwee episode and he was reprogramming a computer to stop a system overload. In new Who, the Doctor would just wave his magic wand, I mean sonic screwdriver to do the same thing.***
Yep, the "SONIC SCREWDriver" is magical; can monitor and heal the sick, control alien devices from another room, etc, etc, etc! lol!
***So much of the series has replaced science with magic. While it's true that the original series sometimes played a bit fast and loose with science, at least they tried/went through the motions. In the new series ... anything goes. Magic sonic screwdriver, magic paper, the Doctor hanging out the door of the Tardis in flight, magic pocket watches, magic fireplaces, magic houses.***
Well "magic" can explain a lot so they can get in and get out fast in these lame plotlines! lol!
***How'd they explain The Master in the TV movie; Or did they bother? - After the Master was executed by the Daleks, the Doctor was charged with taking his remains back to Gallifrey. On the journey, he took on some weird translucent snake-like form, escaped the Doctor's TARDIS and slithered down Eric Roberts' throat while he slept, presumably murdering him from the inside (classic Doctor Who) and possessing his body. The snake wasn't explained in the movie, but most people seem to think the Master ingested some rare kind of alien-symbiote that carried his consciousness after the death of his body.***
They keep coming up with new reasons the Master is still running around all the time; even the creation and observance of an ancient religion he established to bring him back from the ashes! So lame! That one was nauseating; talk about paranoia and self perpetuation issues!
***Wasn't the Masters plan to declare war on the Universe? He probably would of just blown up one of the planets Davros needed for the reality bomb.***
It finally sunk in that The Master was totally insane in "Logopolis" when he caused so much distruction; includ. the fading away of Nyssa's home planet of Traken! The Doctor is trying to stop the collapse of other planets and galaxies and there's The Master trying to invoke power over the universe! I was done with him as a legitimate enemy then! When you're that insane, you think you're invulnerable, which is why The Doctor always wins in the end! Same with Davros! When you're so sure of yourself, you'll get bitten in the ass sooner or later, even if it takes a year as in "Last of the Time Lords!"
***To me, this is where The Master went wrong. Delgado's Master was not insane by any means. He was an opportunist, willing to exploit anyone and everyone in order to better his goals. He was cunning, evil and manipulative, but NOT insane.***
I think the problem by that time was that The Master had gone past a legitimate cycle in that last regeneration and his mind was scrambled! It was too late even by taking over the body of Nyssa's father!
***Those are storyline explanations. I'm speaking of the decision that the writers in Baker's era made to make the character a panto villain. The Master's regeneration cycle was 1st referenced in the Baker era, no?
This showed that the production teams after Letts/Dicks never really understood what made The Master so amazing in the Pertwee era. Delgado's Master was extremely logical and calculating. That was so much more entertaining than the psychotic madman that the character became from the Baker era on. ---
12 Regenerations is canon, but there are ways around it. In "The Five Doctors" the Master was offered a new cycle of regenerations in exchange for rescuing the Doctor. They could obviously have #13 come across another regeneration cycle somehow to keep the show going.***
You are correct! After Delgado died in a car crash, The Master wasn't referenced again until Baker went back to Gallifrey getting a mental message of the President's assassination; "The Deadly Assassin" I think! The Master was trying to get ahold of the Sash of Rassilon to open a power source to extend his life; The Eye attach to the Matrix! He was the incarnation that looked like a burn victim!
***Any Chance of a Tom Baker Sighting in 50th? Just like that utterly superfluous "The Five Doctors" rubbish.***
Multi-Doctor episodes are the best IMO! They illicit emotions unlike other episodes due to memories and feelings about the show that can't be matched; at least in me! Those couple episodes with Sarah Jane Smith should tell you all you need to know; esp. since we all are aware of her passing recently! It also educates neophites and new viewers of the series, giving them a taste of Classic Who! I think it's possible Tom might be seen or heard from since he's finally gotten over his resentment! I was shocked that he did the "Revisits" since he was so adament in not doing "The Five Doctors for the 20th anniversary! He's still as bombastic as ever and believes rightly so that "he's" the true Doctor!
***Nah, 50th is only going to celebrate the revival. - Then it would really be more of an 8th anniversary special. All living Doctors should be in this episode. Tom Baker played the Doctor for 7 years! And he certainly seemed very happy to talk about it in the Revisited special. I can't imagine why they'd refer to it as a 50th anniversary special w/o a nod to the original Doctors? Actually, more than a nod...a real appearance. There's a reason why Liz Salden's appearance in the new series was so well received: it ties the 2 series nicely together.***
***So in light of Matt's head shaving I ask this question... I know Matt will wear a wig, but has there been a Doctor in his run to drastically alter his appearance; IE shaving their head, that they even changed it on the show?***
Outside of a costume changes, "no!" Baker was on so long he went through minor changes; hair length, scarf, & jacket! That's about it; IMO!
***Rose was written as an equal character with the Doctor. Not many, if any of the classic series' companions could claim equal billing with the Doctor character. They were all mostly secondary characters. Rose was as much the star as Eccleston/Tennant during her time on the show. That's probably why some hated her. I don't think Martha or Donna could even claim that.***
There's no way I would accept any reasons to get over my animus of Rose! I found her selfish, jealous, and when she was sympathetic as in "Dalek," it cost a lot of lives! She had few if any redeeming values IMO! She wouldn't even release Mickey from her clutches even though she had eyes only for The Doctor! She had the nerve to be upset he was going out with another girl! Then there's how stupid she could be; touching her "baby self" causing more calamities! I just never cared for her!
***While I do agree with you for the most part, I will say that it wasn't her decision to make contact with her younger self. That was all on Pete.***
Who did she think the kid was when she was introduced to her mother by Pete? I would have run so I wouldn't be breathing the same air as my younger self! It's just logical only bad things could happen crossing your own path; except if you're a Time Lord of course! lol! Thanks for agreeing; so few do, telling me "it's a tv show! Get over it!"
***Rose is truly one of the best written female characters in tv. W/o her, I'm not sure I would have been interested in Doctor Who. A companion that is not an equal would have turned me off. YES, Rose did have flaws and thank goodness for that. I'm so sick of these idealized female characters running around (as if women are never jealous for one thing) that are "strong" (as in kick butt) rather than equal to the male characters with their imperfections and weaknesses. ---
Everything you might want to point out as bad personality traits are almost certainly true; and that is glorious! Here we have a real person as a companion! Who hasn't known a Rose in their life? I've known several. Hell, I agree: Rose could be down-right ugly at times. Look at "School Reunion". Her first interactions with Sarah Jane had me almost hating her (for I grew up, like so many, loving Sarah Jane). And isn't that a tribute to Billie Piper though? To so effectively pull off the ugliness inside Rose, as well as her better nature? Frankly, I'd have given her a BAFTA just for that scene alone.***
***A season of classics to mark the anniversary? - We've been getting this with The 'Doctors Revisted' on BBCA. Surprised to hear that this isn't being shown on the other side of the Atlantic. Not entirely happy with the choice of episodes though. Tom Baker episode should have been "Genesis of the Daleks."***
Funny, I liked "Pyramids Of Mars" very much and had a feeling they'd go there! "Genesis.." was just too long; a serial 2 parter (techn. 6)! It would have taken hours with the commercials they wanted to insert! Maybe "Destiny.." would have fit more into the time slot and you'd still get a look at Davros from that era! The banter with Baker was still classic; even more so since they knew each other already!
***River Song RUINED the Tardis Whoosh for me FOREVER - Ever since she suggested it makes the famous noise because the Doctor leaves the brakes on. ---
You realize that she was just teasing him, correct?***
I think she was just joking too b/c I'm sure the Master's TARDIS made the same sounds when materializing as well!
***Not only did the Master's and everyone else's TARDIS make the noise, but even when it was being piloted by Vortex!Rose in The "Parting Of The Ways" and River herself in "Let's Kill Hitler," it made the noise. And the TARDIS herself didn't take issue with the noise in The "Doctor's Wife;" she even used it to identify herself. Instead, she nagged him about opening the doors the wrong way (even though he doesn't).***
I think when River landed in the TARDIS, she was able to do a quick/hard landing where there was no sound which is confusing folks!
***In the Classic Series the Translation ability still worked when the TARDIS was 1000's of years away in Time and millions of miles in Space never mind the South Pole.***
It's just one of many scenerios we have to accept as loyal viewers! There are so many canons that have been overlooked, ignored, or exaggerated! It happens!
***River's story arc - So is River Song's story arc over now that Smith's time is done. As a time traveller, don't you think she would have run across more than just 10 & 11's adventures? Same goes with Captain Jack. - We've seen her birth, childhood, life, wedding, married life, death of her parents and her own death, plus some time as a ghost.***
I think and hope "she's done!" She meets the Doctor in reverse order so by having her last contact in "The Library" with Tennant, there should be no way they can meet again; at least on screen! I suppose they can fudge a reason, but it won't be as logical IMO!
***No she doesn't. There would be no need for her and the Doctor to compare diaries if that was the case b/c everything in her diary would not be in the Doctors and Vice versa. Plus did you not see The Name of the Doctor that was (for now) the last contact with the Doctor from her PoV, not "The Library" with Doc 10.***
I'm speaking of the last contact she had before she died and was preserved in the matrix of "The library" computer! I know what you're talking about, but you're not paying attention! When she met Tennant, she wasn't even sure who he was until he mentioned it! She told him she knew him at the end, but he wasn't aware of who she was! That's why I say they met in reverse order! You can't go by the order of the episode; "wake up and understand what I'm saying!" Anyone else (help me out)?
***Carole Ann Ford says Doctor Who 'definitely' destroyed her career - The 72-yo, who is best-known for her role as Susan Foreman in the BBC sci-fi tv series says she wished she had never taken the job and been the 1st Doctor Who girl. “I must say that when I left Doctor Who, I was filled with… not loathing, but I was incredibly annoyed b/c I wanted to do more tv and films and the only thing that people could ever see me in was a recreation of what I had done; a Susan clone or some kind of weird teenager," Ford told the Daily Telegraph. "I wanted to do work that would disconnect me from Doctor Who. That is a very difficult thing to accomplish, as many other actors who have played the companions have found out.”
Being "typecast" is always a danger; esp. with an iconic role! I prefer to believe she just wasn't very good! She was young and should have been able to move on if she really tried! I'd blame her agent more! Maybe he was just bad at his job! Most Doctors went on to do bigger and better things! I'm watching Peter Davison on the British version of "Law & Order" even though I know what will happen! Freema/Martha was on it as well!
***Is there a possiblity that Susan Foreman is alive? - We have been waiting 50 years for him to go back. I'm not holding my breath, but I do hope it a well kept secret for the 50th. Carole Ann Ford isn't getting any younger, but is at present fit to do it. The Doctor left Susan for her own good, but looking back on it, it wasn't his decision to make and was effectively him kicking his granddaughter out the house and never even seeing her again.***
If the Doctor thought all the Time Lords were dead, why did he acknowledge that distress call in "The Doctor's Wife?" He was like a kid and so happy at the time!
***Good question. The show contradicts itself so often that I often don't bother trying to shoehorn everything into continuity! If he had hitherto believed that all Time Lords were dead, he might have thought to himself "wow, there's one left somehow, and they need help." It depends how reliable he, himself, thinks the psychic-link-whatchamacallit is; if he KNOWS there are no more Time Lords, he would answer the distress call KNOWING that it wasn't a real Time Lord who sent it. If he THINKS there are none ..he will be hoping he's wrong.***
I guess you can rationalize it was an alternate universe! I can only remember The Doctor giving instructions to that entity of getting back by dropping rooms off the TARDIS! Continuity means nothing; true enough!
***River's Chronology - You'd think I have figured this out by now, but I just want to make sure. I know that "Let's Kill Hitler" is 1st and "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead" followed by "The Name of the Doctor" are the final 2, but how about in between?***
The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - As a little girl
Let's Kill Hitler - as Mels, then as River
Closing Time - As young River being recaptured by the Silence
The Wedding of River Song - As Young River in the spacesuit, as amalgamation River in the 5:02 Universe
First Night - As the freshly imprisoned young River
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - As the River who knows what she is
Flesh and Stone/Time and Angels - As River who's done the Pandorica
The Wedding of River Song - As River who leaves the Byzantium to tell Amy and Rory the Doctor is still alive
Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon (Tech. this could come anywhere, but since she's had a lot of adventures with the Doctor, I think it's an older River) as the River who witnesses herself killing the Doctor and helping to solve the mystery of the Silents
When a Good Man Goes to War - As the River who scolds the Doctor
First Night/Last Night - as the River who's being chased by Sontarans (Again, hard to place, but very likely)
When a Good Man Goes to War - As the River who Rory meets in the beginning
Angels Take Manhattan - As Professor River Song who knows the Doctor very well
Last Night - As the River who's being taken on her final date by an older version of the Doctor
Library/Forest - As the River that dies :P
Name of the Doctor: :D ---
Your top 5 favourite TARDIS teams:
1. 11 & The Ponds: I love the way Amy and Rory were nearly like a family for him. They just fit so well and had so much fun together.
2. 1 & Ian and Barbara: I love Ian and Barbara, they were so well written. They often questioned the Doctor's actions and morals and helped him become a warmer, friendlier character.
3. 2 & Jamie and Zoe: 2 and Jamie had brilliant chemistry and w/ the addition of Zoe I think they really made a perfect team.
4. 4 & Harry and Sarah Jane: I'm a big fan of Harry even though he didn't stay very long. His old fashionedness, 4's wackiness and Sarah Jane's strong will made them a joy to watch.
5. 5 & Tegan and Turlough: I loved it b/c each character was so different. It was fun to see the interaction btw them and how they learned to get used to each other.
So, what are your favourite teams?***
Unfortunately, I don't get into the emotional side of having companions! I prefer to have pals that are helpful and can do more than get into trouble and cause havoc like Rose! I like professionals more like Martha who was a Doctor, Romana, Nyssa, and Cap. Jack who could actually work on the TARDIS, and Turlough and Adric who could think for themselves!
1) 4 & Romana and Adric 2) 5 & Nyssa and Adric w/ Tegan 3) 7 & Ace 4) 10 & Martha 5) 11 & Clara
***Thank you! I had a look at your blog, I totally agree with some of your comments (about Delta & The Bannerman, ie.) and I never knew that Davison was in 'All Creatures Great and Small' and Doctor Who at the same time!
I didn't notice that when I wrote my post, but I'm more on the emotional side. But I also love companions that can actually be useful! That's why Liz Shaw is one my favorite companions. Romana, Nyssa, Ace, Captain Jack, and Turlough are some of my favorites too! ---
What did we get for the 25th anniversary except the 5 (4) Doctors? - Just looked it up:
10th Anniversary nothing 15th "Androids Of Tara" (2 days later) 20th "5 Doctors" at least in the USA; UK got it 2 days later 25th "Silver Nemesis" started 30th no new who episode on tv since '89, but a tv docum. more than 30 yrs in the TARDIS
35th nothing since tv movie in '96 40th nothing since tv movie '96 45th nothing since "Journeys End," end of series 4 in july 50th yet to be seen, but Day of the Doctor (75 min spec.) as well as "An Adventure In Space and Time;" 90 min. special about DW and multiple other shows across BBC1,2,3, & 4
It seems to me the BBC are doing more for this anniversary than they ever have for any other. Yet all we have is complaints.***
I loved "The 5 Doctors" and you can't go wrong with Cybermen and Daleks for the other anniversaries! Some people are just too hard to please I guess! 8-)
***Old series vs. New series: Which is better and why? They actually weren't afraid to get rid of the companions. In the new series they would make it so they would be able to return and I think Moffat had to kill Amy and Rory to stop himself from just keeping them. In the classic there was time for character development and bettering of plot. ...There are tributes to the 5th Doctor, but if Moffat really wants to do so for Peter davison's Doctor, then he should just do a two-parter or three parter where the new Doctor and 5th meet. Even the worse classic stories like "Kinda," Time And The Rani," "Timelash," "Underworld," & "Leisure Hive" have better story than the modern ones that were worse.***
So many people freaked out when Adric was killed, they were trying to avoid more controversy! lol! That ending with Peri was quite lame, but you could say that about a # of the Colin Baker episodes!
***I thought they realized that killing another companion would be too soon since the last one. It would only come off as a shock tactic and rip-off. I hated Adric so much that I didn't feel shocked or sad when he went, just relieved that I would never see him again. They tried so hard to make him sympathetic in that episode that I knew something was going to happen to him.
I found several of the Colin Baker eps very amusing, but my problem with most of the DW serials I've seen is that they seem so formulaic. So far everything I've watched is the bad guy/monster of the week with a lot of capturing and escaping. The "Twin Dilemma" was a terribly weak start for the 6th Doctor; those twins were painful to watch. The ep I found most awful though was "Terror Of The Vervoids;" it was just as uninspired as "Black Orchid.?***
***Episodes you skip - I don't usually skip full episodes. I just skip parts I have dubbed 'cringe worthy.' The only parts I can recall right now are: The fluctuating in Aliens of London/World War III when Cassandra enters the Doctor's body and dances around in New Earth, most of the absorbaloff parts from "Love and Monster," and even though the season 3 finale is my fave episodes besides "End of Time," I have my cringe worthy moments I MUST skip in those as well: funny/not funny.***
I agree about just skipping 'parts' of NuWho! When it comes to Classic Who, I haven't watched "Trial Of A Time Lord" since I taped it almost 30 years ago! One of these days I need to pull out the 2 sub-episodes within it, including "Mindwarp!" I can't even remember what it was about! The Colin Baker era just wasn't my fave even though I loved the revisited ep. of "Vengeance on Varos" a couple months ago!
***Glad you agree. I understand the Colin Baker era not being your fave and I know many people won't agree with me, but I rather enjoyed "Trial of a Timelord." There were parts of it that I still skip over now that you mention it, but ultimately, I really enjoyed it. Mostly the Valeyard and the Doctor's squabbling and the Master's scenes are what make it for me.***
Even though I don't rememeber it, I thought I read that Romana became The President on Gallifrey!
***She did in the books. I think she was even President in one of them I actually read: "Blood Harvest."***
That's probably why I didn't remember seeing it! I only read the older novels and still haven't watched or listened to the episodes put to disc! I couldn't get through "Shada" on YouTube; sorry! Hard to accept since it wasn't part of actual telecast on BBC or PBS here in the States!
***The BF audio of Shada (which was the webcast starring McGann as D8) is easy to listen to. It's almost akin to Douglas Adams' H2G2 series. The script is based on many versions of Shada Douglas had written so it might not be the same as the telecast. From the start of the play Romana is described as the President. ---
I'm still trying to figure out how Rassilon was running around trying to come up with ways to save Gallifrey? At least we got to see the Doctor's Mum! lol!
***Timothy Dalton gets an honorable mention, as his narration was my favorite part of 'End of Time.' ---
Is 'Doctor Who' ever said? - I think he was also called 'Doctor Who' in the credits of the '05 series, but I might be wrong and I'm almost 100% sure he was never called that within an actual story from the revamped series.***
You're kidding right? It's said all the time by people who meet him for the 1st time! He says he's the Doctor and they always ask "Doctor Who?"
***Why does everyone hate River Song? - She is sort of arrogant and overconfident!***
Definitely! There's only room for one ego-maniac and that should be The Doctor and no one else! Sorry!
***Episodes you skip - If you are skipping 'Gridlock' and 'Asylum Of The Daleks' I will disagree.***
I don't agree about "Gridlock" and "Asylum Of The Daleks" either! Few if any Dalek episodes are worth skipping! Even though I'm no fan of McCoy's, "Remembrance Of The Daleks" was definitely worth seeing and collecting!
***Is a 7 year run as the Doctor possible any more? Does anyone want a Doctor to stay for more than 3 years? Seven may be too long, but I would like to see the next Doctor make 5 series at least. ---
I have a feeling the show won't last 7 more years. I've seen the 50th trailer. I know how bad it looks. Heart breaking in its own way, my thoughts are with the long time fans who waited for it.***
I have no expectations really! I just feel fortunate that anything is being produced! It was such a shock to my senses that it was brought back at all! No other program has done such a thing that I can remember; esp. after almost 20 years on haitus! It would be nice to stick to the formula of having multiple Doctors, but from what I've read, only Tennant has signed on! It could be only a quick cameo or 2 like Hartnell in "The Three Doctors!" I'm patient and will wait before condemning or proclaiming success!
***I know, I KNOW I shouldn't whine, but show us a trailer already! - To be honest I don't give a flying toss about the trailer, I'm far more interested in the full episode. I also want to be surprised and trailers tend to give too much away sometimes. We tend to know everything before we've even seen it.***
I also am patient enough to wait without needing to see even a "still" of the episode! Surprise is good! I don't even pay that much attention to speculation on it; plenty of it here that's for sure!
***I can understand why people are starting to get a bit fed up about the lack of a trailer... Or anything really. Me personally, I would rather hold off on knowing anything about the episode and let myself be totally surprised by what I see... But that's just me. ---
What would you rather have ageless immortality or the ability to Change your body when you die for about 13 Lives? And of course, you're not the Doctor. You didn't get an extra 11 lives in "Let's Kill Hitler." I'd personally want to regenerate.***
I agree! Immortality brings with it so much baggage! A sense of entitlement, ego-mania, and a permanent sense of loss when others expire around you!
***It's beyond even that. Imagine, if you can, a billion years. One thousand million years. That is just the start. What if we never develop the ability to travel to other stars? When the sun dies, you'll be stuck, alone on a dead world. Forever, with no end.***
In the animated version of the 'Justice League,' Superman was sent into the future only to discover a villain who had immortality! It was horrible so I know what you mean! He obviously went insane all alone on the planet where he eliminated all people! Fortunately he was able to send Kal-El back to stop him from destroying all life on Earth and people started appearing in his future!
***Seeing the Time War would be a huge mistake as it will never live up to expectations, but more of Gallifray we will probably get to see. You are being a bit harsh on the Time Lords saying they are no better than the Daleks. The Timelords for a very long time had a non interference policy to the point of it being the thing that defined them. Where the Daleks have wanted to exterminate everything not Dalek almost since there creation, although the TL's did fire the first shot in the TW (Genesis of the Daleks). They only really went bad in the new series and that may well have been those led by a quite insane Rassilon, while the entire Dalek race want to kill everything. - I got tired of the Daleks coming back more than the other villains, like so many other fans do, but ultimately, I do love their episodes. In fact, when I was watching random episodes from classic Doctor Who just to get a feel for the classic series, the Daleks/Davros episodes were one of the group of episodes I went to watch. ---
To be fair to the Time Lords, they were kind of stuck in a desperate situation. Rassilon was the selfish one; the rest of the Time Lords were just following his lead out of necessity (and reverence). - Yes, Susan was the show's first companion, and is also the Doctor's granddaughter.***
I didn't think about it until they started using that term "Time War" in the reboot, but it technically began when The Doctor was sent to Skaro to influence the Dalek "Genesis" or creation; right? It continued when he went back with Ramona where the Movellans were trying to get to Davros who was in suspended animation; not dead in "Destiny Of The Daleks!" It seemed everytime the Doctor came in contact with the Daleks, it was part of The Time War!
***As for the buildings/architecture of Gallifrey, we were shown glimpses of that throughout the old series and new series. I'm not concerned about seeing it again, but I would like to if possible. I really want to see Daleks vs Timelords, even a small part. I want Rani and the Master in it, but the Doctor didn't know what happened to the Master during the Time War, so I highly doubt we'll be seeing him. It would be nice to see Rani a little though. I would like to see Gallifrey and/or the Time Lords return after the 50th, but I'm not holding my breath. That's too good to be true. ---
'The Doctor's Revisited' and the stories that go with it:
William Hartnell - The Aztecs
Patrick Troughton - Tomb of the Cybermen
Jon Pertwee - Spearhead from Space
Tom Baker - Pyramids of Mars
Peter Davison - Earthshock
Colin Baker - Vengeance on Varos
Sylvester McCoy - Battlefield ("Remembrance Of The Daleks" originally telecast)
Paul McGann - Doctor Who: The Movie
Christopher Eccleston - Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways
David Tennant - The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End
Matt Smith - The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon*** ---
If you even have 2 or 3 episodes without a woman as a companion on the TARDIS, it'll become a "gay thing" like Batman and Robin over the years! It's just not acceptable for 2 males to travel for any length of time without a little "T & A" to look at, talk about, or wonder! Just shows how narrow-minded society is to this day! I guess my namesake Jamie worked out well because he was from out of history and he wore a kilt! When "The Two Doctors" was produced, without a second thought, he was brought in as Troughton's companion and it worked out very well!
I still say that either Hurt's Doctor or Capaldi's Doctor will be the last one she meets. The one who gives her the red screwdriver with dampers, I'm guessing it's Capaldi and we'll have a two parter with her last story...I think River and Capaldi are going to look sexy together.***
So how are they going to handle River now that this will be the 3rd Doctor; Tennett, Smith, now Capaldi? The last should know her the best I guess! Still meeting in reverse order?
***John Hurt was supposed to be the 12th Doctor (which would have been awesome), but whatever occurred to have Capaldi be cast and Hurt to only have the cameo and this special? ---
And 5 months later from season 7's finish from way back in May and people are still going on about he was supposedly supposed to be the 12th Doctor? I half expected better fan theories after all this time has passed and we're getting closer to the 50th Anniversary special by now. And who said Hurt was cameoing in the 50th special only? Wasn't there rumors of him doing a bit more than just that? And also being carried over for the Dr Who Christmas Special as well? ---
This is your chance to be part of Doctor Who history! We want your vote in a quest to discover the answer to a keenly contested question: Who is the ultimate Doctor Who villain? As we approach the 50th anniversary we’re celebrating all those monsters, madmen and fabulous fiends that the Doctor has faced and we need your help to discover which one should be crowned ‘the ultimate’! Everyone has memories of a certain scene that chilled or thrilled them; the first time we saw a Dalek in all their sinister glory, the arrival of the merciless Cybermen, or the time we're told not to blink as the Weeping Angels made their deadly debut!***
The usual suspects are Daleks, Davros, The Master, The Weeping Angels, The Silence, The Sontarans, then The Cybermen! ---
The origins of the time war...We all, sort of know what went off in the war itself the Time Lords and Daleks basically all but destroyed each other. It would be nice to learn how it was started, who started it? - The Time Lords, when they sent the Doctor to prevent the Daleks from ever becoming a universal threat. ---
It's arguable even then; the Time Lords sent him to Skaro only b/c they "foresee a time in which the Daleks will have conquered all other life forms..." which must have incl. them conquering the Time Lords. So you could argue that the first act was Daleks conquering Time Lords, and the Time Lords then sent the Doctor back in time to prevent it ... how do you even decide how a Time War started? Causality would be impossible to work out. ---
The whole issue of the Time War seems best suited for an entire season all to itself to explain really rather than a major Anniversary Special by next month or a Xmas special by year's end in Dec. etc. So I'll be very surprised if the 50th An. covers and finishes the whole story arc off once and for all in a neat little bow, when all is said and done. - The arc was finished by The End of Time and the Time war has been barely mentioned since, Moffats only brought it back because he likes big plot twists and couldn't resist a hidden Doctor.***
"Genesis" had to be the start even though there was no talk of a "Time War" until the reboot; IMO anyway! Thinking back, you fill in all the empty spaces and add them up to make it a TW with so many encounters with Daleks; esp. with Tom Baker who started it all! He went to Skaro at least twice!
***Omega returning as been a rumour for years, I believe there was a fairly widespread one that he was going to be the big bad in The Name of the Doctor. And of course the last time Omega appeared in a story he was played by Peter Davison. Put them all together and you get Peter Davison playing Omega in the Anniversary Special.***
It's amazing how many of the hierachy of Gallifrey are found to be ruthless, self-serving, and totally malevolent; willing to destroy everything just for survival! Omega, Rassilon, and Burusa, Lord President went to the limit in trying to sustain power or perpetuate their lives! It appears the Doctor is the exception and not the rule when it comes to The Time Lords!
***Which is why he left Gallifrey in the first place! - I wouldnt like the Time Lords to return. ...As the 10th Doctor once said, "the Daleks always survive and I keep losing everything." Bringing the Time Lord race back would erase everything; the guilt, the drama, the significance of the Last Great Time War. It's really fun having The Master every now and then. It was also fun when Rassilon attempted to bring Gallifrey back, just like the Daleks keep standing in the Doctor's way. But I don't want them as regulars, not anymore. ---
They'd also have to come up with some timey-wimey device that the Doctor can use to negate the Time Lord's capabilities of plucking him out of space and time (something they've done in the past multiple times). Of course I wouldn't be surprised if they did, and they'll just claim to explain it later (and never do). - But didnt Gallifrey exist outside normal time and space? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think there are alternate versions of the doctor, other than 10.5 ---
Even if stopped using The Master and they brought back some Timelords, foes we haven't seen in several decades like; Omega, The Rani, Rassilon or Meddling Monk; even given us Morbius who's only appearance has been in "The Brain Of Morbius" where he had already been executed, but his mind saved by a loyal follower (Solon). I'd say no to it all, the future ought to come with new materials not reused ones for the umpteenth time etc.
The Timelords were a great mystery and threat in the first 15 to 20 years of the whole program, up until the serials like 'The Wargames' (Introduction after so much heresy by the Doctor of his *then* very mysterious past). "The Three Doctors" (Omega appears), The Deadly Assassin (retooled the show's makeup somewhat and gave the Timelords their backstory partially), 'The Invasion Of Time,' 'Arc Of Infinity,' & 'The Five Doctors' (Rassilon appears). Where they had their last big hurrah's onscreen in powerful storylines. Afterwards there was no mystery to them anymore.
I guess the revived Doctor Who series had to reuse them eventually at some point, which is exactly why we had; "The End Of Time" storyarc. But even so, after all of that finally played itself out, it would only later make the new Who series only more reliant on the older introduced concepts the classic show came up with and not its own. From a fan point of view and perspective. Doctor Who should have the Doctor facing new challenges as the last of his race (barring The Master and Rassilon locked away in the timelock).***
***This is a sequential list of all great or very good TNG eps. Also included are mediocre or bad eps which are nevertheless worthwhile for some specific reason (they will feature at least 1 great scene, intelligent sci-fi ideas, intelligent political ideas, important character history or plot points necessary for following the series).
Where No One Has Gone Before The Battle 11001001 Home Soil Heart of Glory Where Silence Has Lease A Matter of Honor The Measure of a Man Contagion The Royale Time Squared Q Who Peak Performance Evolution The Survivors Who Watches the Watchers Booby Trap The Enemy The Price The Defector The Vengeance Factor The Hunted The High Ground Deja Q A Matter of Perspective Elementary dear Data Sins of the Father Yesterday's Enterprise Tin Man Hollow Pursuits Sarek Transfigurations The Best of Both Worlds, Pt I The Best of Both Worlds, Pt II Family Brothers Remember Me Future Imperfect Reunion Data's Day The Wounded Clues First Contact Galaxy's Child Night Terrors The Nth Degree Identity Crisis The Drumhead Redemption 1 Redemption 2 The Mind's Eye Darmok Silicon Avatar Unification 1 Unification 2 Cause and Effect The First Duty I, Borg The Inner Light Relics Chain of Command 1 Chain of Command 2 Ship in a Bottle Face of the Enemy Tapestry Lessons The Chase Frame of Mind Second Chances Timescape The Pegasus Lower Decks Thine Own Self Preemptive Strike All Good Things 1 All Good Things 2
Total # of TNG episodes: 178 Total # of worthwhile episodes (IMO): 75 Quality %: 42
_____
This is a sequential list of all great or very good DS9 episodes. Also included are mediocre or bad episodes which are nevertheless worthwhile for some specific reason (they will feature at least 1 great scene, intelligent sci-fi ideas, intelligent political ideas, important character history or plot points necessary for following the series ).
Emissary 1 Emissary 2 Past Prologue Dax Vortex Progress Duet In the Hands of the Prophets The Homecoming The Circle The Siege Cardassians Necessary Evil Whispers Paradise Blood Oath The Maquis, Pt I The Maquis, Pt II The Wire Crossover The Collaborator The Jem'Hadar The Search, Part 1 The Search, Part 2 Second Skin The Abandoned Civil Defense Defiant Past Tense, Pt I Past Tense, Pt II Life Support Heart of Stone Destiny Visionary Through the Looking Glass Improbable Cause The Die Is Cast Explorers Family Business Shakaar The Adversary The Way of the Warrior 1 The Way of the Warrior 2 The Visitor Hippocratic Oath Indiscretion Starship Down Homefront Paradise Lost Return to Grace Accession Shattered Mirror The Quickening Broken Link Apocalypse Rising Trials and Tribble-ations Things Past For the Uniform In Purgatory's Shadow By Inferno's Light Soldiers of the Empire Children of Time Blaze of Glory In the Cards Call to Arms A Time to Stand Rocks and Shoals Behind the Lines Favor the Bold Sacrifice of Angels Waltz Far Beyond the Stars In the Pale Moonlight Valiant Tears of the Prophets Shadows and Symbols Take Me Out to the Holosuite Treachery, Faith, and the Great River Once More Unto the Breach It's Only a Paper Moon Chimera The Changing Face of Evil When it Rains Tacking into the Wind The Dogs of War What You Leave Behind
Total # of DS9 eps: 176 Total # of worthwhile eps (IMO): 86 Quality %: 48***
***Why did people hate Wesley Crusher? - Wesley starts out being a wise-ass know-it-all, then we get his relationship to the Traveler, and finally he gets to be the smug acting ensign. Like the show, he gets better with age. But for many of us, the impression was already made.***
Like most I thought he was a cocky little punk who caused more trouble than he solved! His ego was huge; even off the show! I saw him in an episode of "The Weakest Link; Celebrity Edition!" He actually said out loud among the rest of the cast how he and Marina Sirtis were the most attractive of the group! It's been over 10 years, but I have a very clear memory of it with the rest of the audience gasping and laughing!
***Right at the end he said he was just kidding b/c the host was acting like he was really stuck up so he was acting that way for her benefit. I was happy "Geordi" won.***
You saw it then! I had just gotten back from Europe in '01 where I was watching the British version and thought it would be a great show to produce in the States! I was pleasantly surprised that within a couple months, they did just that! He really said it was a joke? Thank GAWD! It haunted me for so long! All I could think was, "what an ego!" Since then, I've only seen Marina in an episode of "Earth: Final Conflict!"
***Just cause I said Stewart has great dialogue in every episode, or nearly, or most; he definitely was better than Shatner with the dialogue he was given.***
He has a great voice! Before STNG, I had only seen him twice and he was great; both small parts, but he made them his in "Dune" and "Lifeforce!" After that besides STNG, he was quite good in his gay role in "Jeffrey!" Since then he's been immortalize in "X-Men" and it looks like they'll bring him back even though it appeared he was destroyed by The Dark Phoenix!
***Looks can be deceiving.***
Why do you say that? It appears Moira said his name at the end of the credits of "X-Men Last Stand!" We don't see him, but who else could Charles be?
***What is your favorite episode....and why?***
"Tin Man" is an episode I can relate with Tam Elbrun! I almost crave that kind of isolation on Gomtuu just so "the voices are finally silent!" Too much stupidity going on these days; esp. with budget and debt chaos here in the States! THe Republicans and conservatives in gov't are the Romulans who'd rather destroy everything while Dems and moderates want all to share prosperity! No place on this planet is safe to avoid such idiots in power! "Please Tim Man, take me away!"
***As a 37 year old woman and Doctor Who fan, I will tell you that I don't find Matt Smith even remotely attractive. I think he plays the Doctor well, but I don't find him cute at all. I do find David Tennant to be hot at times and adorable at others. It really just is a matter of personal preference. I think Matt Smith looks goofy.***
Hmmm, this is the 1st time I've ever seen a thread devoted to the Doctor being "hot" or not! Hilarious in my opinion since most of the time he's been an old man! I personally sat up when Davison regenerated from Baker, but I didn't make a Federal case about it! He was younger and obviously more attractive, but it didn't change the show; so the point was moot!
***Hottest Companion?***
Captain Jack is at the top of the list; of course, but I have a personal preference for redheads, and Turlough looked "hot" in his little shorts in "Planet Of Fire! Too bad he left at the end! I hated the school uniform with the tie!
***Ew...Captainess Jackeline? Personally, I find Adric hotter; in looks AND personality, but I'm going with Rory or Ben.***
Adric got on my nerves with his incessant whining and questions! Nothing wrong with Arthur though! Here's my fave pic of him: - http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/fish-love-broadchurch-star-arthur-darvill-poses-nude-with-un-poisson-8631042.html - Rory nude w/ monk fish
***Who is the best Davros - If I am right there have been 4 actors playing Davros including Michael Wisher; 3 actors played him in classic Who and one in nuWho. Which are the best of the 4 for me; the last 2?***
Davros is Davros, regardless if it's an actor or puppet! It doesn't matter! It's a great character villain; period!
***All due credit to Terry Molloy for delivering the lines he had in 'Resurrection of the Daleks' without collapsing in a fit of laughter. ---
Top 5 classic stories (IMO) - Mine is full of the usual suspects:
1. Genesis of the Daleks 2. The Seeds of Doom 3. City of Death 4. Inferno 5. The Talons of Weng Chiang***
With 30+ years of Classic Who, it's hard to draw just 5 great eps to take note of, but you came the closest to my way of thinking; including the worst: "Genesis Of The Daleks, Seeds Of Doom, City Of Death, City In Decay, & Talons Of Weng Chiang" come to mind right away for different reasons! "City Of Death" has been done using historical events like the theft of the Mona Lisa as a way of extracting money from multiple buyers! "City In Decay" has a little drama with space vampires and a Devil like character in E-Space! "Genesis" shows us where the Daleks came from so that's always a fave of people! "Seeds Of Doom" is quite reminiscent of "The Thing!" And "Talons" is a great story with a number of twists and turns!
***I would like to hear your thoughts on Terry Nation as a writer. Some people rate him as a talentless hack with no redeeming features as a writer who leeched off of the hard work of others and churned out the same $hit again and again, whilst others regard him as one of the most important figures in tv history! Here's what I think of his work on Doctor Who, B7, & Survivors.
Daleks Master Plan: A great story, but Nation only wrote half of it. Credit where credit is due to Dennis Spooner. The Daleks Master Plan marks the beginning of the Daleks working alongside devious humaniods such as Lesterson, the Controller and eventually Davros. Mavic Chen is a brilliant character overall though a large part of why he works is down to Kevin Stoney's performance. It's also quite a dark story that is the first to kill a companion off in a sudden and violent way. You gotta admire Nation for having the balls to do that back in the 60's. It was almost unheard of to have main character die in such a violent, sudden way and again can be seen as another precursor to his work on B7.
Planet of The Daleks
The low point of Nations Who career whilst I enjoyed it as a kid and it's still fun as an adult Planet of the Daleks is just a shameless rip off of Nations own serial the Mutants...
Death to the Daleks
Not a very popular story of his, I really don't know why I love it. I would say its a minor character. Bellal is a lovable supporting character, the Exxilons are scary and well realized, Galloway is an interesting anti-hero, The Daleks are devious and have to use their brains for once, which is quite a nice contrast with Planet of the Daleks where we had them as these unstoppable monsters. Overall a great tight little story.
Genesis of the Daleks
Terry's magnus opus, this is IMO one of if not the greatest DW stories ever made. It shows us how evil the Daleks truly are when we see they are incapable of even understanding what pity is. I also think it explains a lot of the Daleks previous behavour. We find out that they were conditioned to hate other live forms, that they had their emotions removed from them by Davros which explains why we have never seen a Dalek that thinks differently and why every single last Dalek has been evil to its very core. Davros is also a brilliant character as is Nyder. Whilst Terry did write the script for Genesis he wasn't the only one responsible for its success. David Maloney's direction is perfect, the script editor Bob Holmes and the producer Philip Hinchcliff were probably the best team in Who's history, Tom Baker was probs the best Doctor, Liz Sladen the best companion, Michael Wisher and Peter Miles among the best guest performances in the show's history, even the Dalek voices on the story were perfect!...
The Android Invasion
I take it back about Planet of the Daleks, this is the low point of Nation's career. What was he thinking with this abomination, come to think of it what was anybody involved in this story thinking? Its bland, unoriginal, cliched, & dull...
Destiny of the Daleks
An okay story. It has an intriguing plot, some quite effective moments, and is overall an enjoyable little romp. I think its more let down by its poor production values which isn't the fault of Nation of course.***
Way back when, I didn't pay attention to who produced, wrote, or directed! I was pleasantly surprised to see and hear he contributed to the legacy of DW, but then went on to produce another fave of mines, "Blake's 7!"
***Doctor Who 50th An.: David Tennant and Billie Piper named best Doctor and companion - More than 20,000 voted in RadioTimes.com 50th an. poll to find the ultimate DW stars from half a century of BBC sci-fi programming.
Tennant, who played the 10th Doctor btw '05 & '10, and will appear in the 50th An. special "The Day of the Doctor," romped home in the best Doctor vote attracting 56% of the vote.
Despite picking up a healthy 15%, incumbent Doctor Matt Smith was left a distant 2nd, narrowly ahead of classic Who icon Tom Baker (10%) who played the 4th Doctor between '74 and '81.
Chris Eccleston, who was chosen by Russel T Davies to play the lead role when the show was rebooted in '05, took 4th place, garnering almost 7% of the vote.
None of the other actors to play the Doctor managed to get above 3% of the vote, with Colin Baker, the 6th Doctor on screen btw '84 & '86, finishing bottom of the pile with less than 1% of fans selecting him as their fave star.
Billie Piper, who played the recurring role of Rose Tyler, a companion of both Eccleston and Tennant, topped the best companion poll, attracting a 1/4 of all votes. Piper, like Tennant, will also be reprising her role as part of the 50th An. celebrations.
The late Elisabeth Sladen, who played Sarah Jane Smith alongside Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker btw '73 & '76 came 2nd with 15% of the vote. Sladen, who died in April '11 aged 65, is also fondly remembered for reprising the character in spin-off series "K-9 and Company," and latterly The Sarah Jane Adventures which ran for 5 series on CBBC.
Actress and Comedian Catherine Tate, who appeared several times alongside David Tennant as companion Donna Noble came 3rd with 9% of vote. Alex Kingston who played River Song opposite Tennant and Smith came 4th ahead of Karen Gillan who portrayed Amy Pond alongside Matt Smith from '10 to '12.
Current companion Jenna Coleman, who plays Clara Oswald, could only manage 9th position in the poll behind John Barrowman (Captain Jack Harkness) and Sophie Aldred, Sylvester McCoy’s companion, Ace.
Best Doctor:
David Tennant 56.1 Matt Smith 15.93 Tom Baker 10.05 Christopher Eccleston 6.59 Patrick Troughton 2.86 Jon Pertwee 2.38 Peter Davison 1.59 Sylvester McCoy 1.36 Paul McGann 1.35 William Hartnell 0.9 Colin Baker 0.88
Best Comapnion:
Rose Tyler - Billie Piper 25.09 Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen 15.42 Donna Noble - Catherine Tate 12.32 River Song - Alex Kingston 9.09 Amy Pond - Karen Gillan 4.79 Jamie McCrimmon - Frazer Hines 4.1 Captain Jack Harkness - John Barrowman 3.49 Ace - Sophie Aldred 3.09 Clara Oswald - Jenna-Louise Coleman 2.65 Martha Jones - Freema Agyeman 2.54 (Colonel then) Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart - Nicholas Courtney 2.39 Romana - Mary Tamm, Lalla Ward 1.89 Rory Williams - Arthur Darvill 1.8 Wilfred Mott - Bernard Cribbins 1.26 K-9 - John Leeson, David Brierley 1.14 Jo Grant - Katy Manning 1.01 Leela - Louise Jameson 0.97 Tegan Jovanka - Janet Fielding 0.83 Peri Brown - Nicola Bryant 0.73 Barbara Wright - Jacqueline Hill 0.67 Ian Chesterton - William Russell 0.51 Nyssa - Sarah Sutton 0.49 Adric - Matthew Waterhouse 0.48 Susan Foreman - Carole Ann Ford 0.44 Harry Sullivan - Ian Marter 0.42 Strax - Dan Starkey 0.34 Turlough - Mark Strickson 0.31 Liz Shaw - Caroline John 0.28 ...***
***'Genesis Of The Daleks' - The best Dalek story (despite their limited screen time) with efficient direction by David Maloney and terrific performances by all, esp, Michael Wisher who is extremely effective and unforgettable as Davros. Interesting idea of the Time lords sending the Doctor to Skaro in a pivotal point in Dalek history, which the whole misguided business of the new series took to preposterous extremes with an actual Time War. The Doctor didn't change history at all, but merely (once again) became a part of it, learning invaluable info about the Daleks and the future threat of Davros in the process (imagine if he showed up in 'Destiny Of The Daleks' with no previous knowledge of Davros)? Whole story dynamic changes as a result!***
"Where are my Daleks?" I can still see and hear Baker's reunion with Davros in "DOTD!" Funny I don't remember the term "Time War" used until the re-boot! All the Doctor's encounters with Davros was perchance except in "Genesis...;" or so I thought!
***Davros became overused later on, and should have been killed off for good in 'Resurrection Of The Daleks.' I think he should have stayed dead after "Genesis of the Daleks." As originally presented, "Genesis" had a perfect ending - Davros created a monster which then destroyed him. ---
Which of three multi-Doctor tv stories do you like the best? I personally like "The Five Doctors" despite its flaws (only three of the actors who played the Doctor taking part in it, little or no reaction from the Doctors 2, 3, & 5 to the reappearance of Susan, etc.) mainly b/c it was the first of the 3 I saw and for a long time, except for feature length version of "Revenge of the Cybermen", it was the only Doctor Who story I had access to on VHS. On top of that Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee give good performances.***
I love them all, but the "The Two Doctors" was the newest with guest appearances from "Blake's 7" alum, Jacqueline Pearce as Chessene and my namesake Jamie!
***Do fans of particular Doctors have collective names?
Back in my day w/ the classic program, we were all just "Whovians: Children Of Rassilon!" Sorry, but even after all this time and so many regenerations, "The Doctor" was and always will be "TOM BAKER!" No one more iconic despite the radiotime.com poll!
***"The End Of Time" - ...The last time I tried I turned it off after the Master was brought back to life by magic and a lot of shouting.***
OMG, magic! How do they get away with that kind of stuff in a science fiction program of this quality? What was more magical than Earthpeople's faith in the Doctor by thinking and chanting his name all at once in "The Last Of The Time Lords!" I guess people might say it's 'psychic' energy, but looked more like magic to me!
***I've recently seen all episodes of DS9, TNG and ST. I honestly think they are equal and all good for vastly different reasons. DS9 has slightly more good eps or masterpieces than TNG, but gets real dumb in the last season. It's also a chore to watch when a poor episode is airing. - TNG has the best "hard" sci-fi, and its masterpieces are arguably greater than the masterpieces in other Trek series'. Unfortunately, like DS9, most of the eps are rather flat and bland. TNG also excels at mind-bending, high concept episodes. - The orignal ST has a great, no-nonsense, militaristic tone. The crew get things done and fast. Some hate the acting, but I think Kirk, Spock, and Mccoy are wonderful. Only Picard can compete with the way these guys elightfully chew scenery. - Voyager, I am debating whether to bother watching. The few eps I have watched have been terrible and I find the crew rather grating. - I have only seen 1 ep of Enterprise - the pilot - and the sexism put me off, though ST was pretty sexist as well at times.***
I didn't watch STNG much when it began back then, thinking it a more advanced version of the original; down to Riker having a duplicate ala Kirk! It grew on me though and I got into the repeats later! Same with "Voyager!" "Endgame" was the best finale; a little time travel included! Loved "armour deployment!"
***Why not have Data work 24 hour shifts all the time? All the crew including the captain are availible 24/7 and can be called onto duty at a moments notice. Why shouldn't Data have time off duty? He's a starfleet officer and not the property any more than any other crew member is.***
You're supposed to buy into the plot that he's the most perfect android ever created with feelings and a need to evolve! I go along with the 16 hour day; social downtime to be with "friends," practice and perform art and music, etc.!
***STNG, "The Next Phase" - This episode makes NO sense whatsoever. How are they able to walk on floors, see light, breathe oxygen, etc.? The moment they became un-phased, they should have passed right through the ship and ended up in space. But even if there WERE a rational explanation for that not happening (which there's not), they would have immediately been unable to see anything or breathe, since their bodies were no longer in synch with this universe. If they couldn't interact with a console, they wouldn't be able to interact with gases or light beams either. All in all, a very stupid story, poorly executed.***
Well that's taking it too seriously! There would be no show if you rationalized everything that happens! You have to "suspend disbelief" when watching stuff like this! With all of space out there, it's amazing how they run into something all the time! In real life, even if you were looking "you couldn't find a needle in a haystack!"
***Things that annoy you about STNG - ...the social retards and general incompetent that seem to pollute Star Fleet.***
How corrupt "Star Fleet" seemed to be around the "higher ups!" Picard has had to expose or disregard direct orders at times! In real life, even if you're right, you can't get away with that! We've court martialed soldiers who refused to shoot innocent men, women, and children in the field! It'a happened enough times in real life!
***Either you think that "Kroll" is really awful or you think that "Plan 9" is not that bad. I can think of many steps 'twixt "Kroll" and "Plan 9." Doctor Who's staging and special effects could be embarrassing, but I don't think they ever descended to the Ed Wood level, and even if they did, the scripting and performances still compensated for them, which is something you can't say for Wood and his band of merry moviemakers.***
I was being more than a little facetious! Never heard of exaggeration I guess! In comparison to other DW episodes during that stretch of the "Keys To Time" arc, it was just lacking a lot IMO!
***I first saw Doctor Who eps way back when, I didn't care for Mary Tamm, but I was gaga for Lalla Ward. However, when I started to watch the entire classic series a few years ago, I realized that Tamm was much more attractive than I'd realized previously, and that Ward was not as hot as I'd thought. I think she's attractive, but . . . it's the chin. It's pushed in. Tamm has a nice chin. Ward may be the better actor, although she had more time to develop Romanadvoratrelundar. But Tamm did have a regal bearing about her that was distinctive.***
You covered it for me! It was a shame they went away from Tamm, but she probably warned them she was not going to play the subservient role to Baker's Doctor before she was hired! They ended up going to Lalla in the lamest explanation for regeneration ever! She was a Time Lord herself, not some companion to just pass a sonic screwdriver to The Doctor! It made sense for her to go off in "Warrior's Gate!" I enjoyed that period, but much perferred Tamm! I didn't watch or hear the audios that said Ward had gone back to Gallifrey and become Lord President! As far as I'm concerned, The Doctor will continue to have that title until he goes back himself to pass it on to someone else officially; temp. assigned to Flavia who was on the High Council at the time in "The Five Doctors!"
***Season 16 (Romana l) - The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Stones of Blood, The Androids of Tara, The Power of Kroll, The Armageddon Factor
Season 17 (Romana ll) - Destiny of the Daleks, City of Death, The Creature from the Pit, Nightmare of Eden, The Horns of Nimon, Shada (not completed or transmitted)
Season 18 (Romana ll) - The Leisure Hive, Meglos, Full Circle, State of Decay, Warriors' Gate, 20th An. special The Five Doctors (footage from Shada) ---
Who is Hurt's Who? Is he an extension of 8? Is he 9 or is he a Valeyard-like incarnation between Doctors? - He's the 9th incarnation of the Doctor, however his regeneration was an artificial one. The 8th Doctor decided to turn himself into a Warrior to fight in the war, therefore he did not call himself The Doctor anymore and future incarnations spurned his very memory and refused to call him the Doctor. Therefore the 9th Doctor despite technically being the 10th incarnation still called himself the 9th Doctor. However with the information discovered in this story by the Doctor about his past, he might go back to calling this incarnation the Doctor.***
***The events that occurred in the 50th An. always happened; and Galifrey was never destroyed. The only reason the Doctor (mainly Eccleston) thinks otherwise is b/c once the Doctors traveled back to their respective timelines, the events that occurred were erased from their mind; to prevent a paradox? So #9 will always be destined to believe that he destroyed his home planet; and #10 up until he turns 903 will as well? - Bingo! ---
Imagine, so they brought it back in '05 by killing off the Time Lords and having that Arc. So what if in like 20/30 years when its lost its sting again, they do it again? Invent some new reason why the Doctor is the only one left. OMG, they'll kill the Doctor off entirely and have his Son carry on the name:
New New New Doctor Who Jr. - Season 2...Would you watch it? Would you want to see DW go on for another 50 yrs?***
Nyah; think they should finish him off after his last regeneration, then reboot and start "remakes" of existing episodes from Classic Who!
***There is a chronology to the Doctor's life, whether he loops back on it or not, it still flows in a continuous line for him. - This is one of those rare moments in the Doctor's life where people aren't thinking linear enough.***
After introduction of River Song and her meeting up with the Doctor in reverse time order, linear time has been put on hold for me ever since!
***Leave Eccleston alone! - He didn't quit, he was always upfront about only doing one series. He's an actor and doesn't have to give in to pressure from fans to come back for all events and anniversaries.***
When Chris took the part, he probably didn't think the series would "take" and get cancelled soon after season 1! I thought it might happen! Figured most Classic Whovians were dead, near death, and didn't watch Sci-Fi or BBCA back then here in the States!
***I have been watching 'DW' my entire life and was a child when the "classic" eps aired. I enjoy a lot of those almost as much as the modern ones. The only reason I don't enjoy them AS much are the effects.
In spite of the now "cheesy" effects of the old ones, the stories are still great. I love watching Baker episodes as he's my fav. The NuWho stories I think are just as good.
You just have 2 camps of people who can relax and enjoy the story (blemishes and all) vs those who want "Good Trek, or no Trek." The stories (as with the classics) are still better than just about any sci-fi I have ever seen, and I have seen them all over the past 40 yrs.***
Yep, he nailed it all! I started with Baker and enjoyed Davison turn in the role, then going back to Pertwee, Troughton, & Hartnell! Give me cheesy anytime if the program is as cult-like as "DW!"
***For me, the 50th easily beat out "A Christmas Carol" as my fave special, and I think it may have actually penetrated my top 5. ...In summary, my only real gripes were the fact that McGann's regeneration wasn't incorporated into the episode, ...However, I understand the idea of respecting Eccleston's wishes not to feature in any new content.***
They've had big scenes before; esp. at the beginning of an episode, but this was epic! I thought it was a feature length film instead of the 50th An. ep. at first! It was huge with elaborate scenes from space and sets, a cast of thousands avoiding blasts from the sky and mobile Daleks on the ground! I was terribly impressed! I wanted more Doctors to have substanative parts in this plot except just the finale, but "they got me!" Seeing Baker at the end still makes me a little verklempt! I'm satisfied and it was well worth the wait!
2. Eight helps out a few times, and ultimately chooses to deny the name Doctor and regenerate into a new man (Not in the sense Ten said, the TRUE sense). Warrior (I'll use that as he never personally calls himself "War Doctor") is born.
3. The Master attempts to revive Gallifrey from the midsts of the War (Ripping it out of the Time-locked events, NOT the bubble universe it's now sealed in) Ten reveals that Rassilon was planning something diabolical. When the Master finds out he was being used all his life (Retroactively, as this abuse of him only started when the Time War was in place, so the Master in Old Who was NOT affected with a drum beat in his head), he attacks Rassillon, and is sealed back into the Time-Locked events.
4. (Supposition) The Master possibly kills Rassillon, or at least causes enough of an uproar to where the other members of the High Council finally decide to balls up and stand against him.
5. (What we see in DOTD) The General announces that the High Council's plans have failed. They then see the message from The Warrior and find out what he's done.
6. Warrior steals The Moment and takes it to a desolate part of Gallifrey (Possibly the home he grew up in?) There, the Conscience of The Moment takes control of space and time to open The WArrior's eyes.
7. Ten, Eleven, and the Warrior get involved in stuff, and The Warrior feels ready to take on his task.
8. Having thought on things for 400 years, Eleven comes up with a plan to seal Gallifrey in a moment, and cause the Daleks to commit genocide on themselves.
9. All the Doctors, plus one future versions use their TARDISes, which have been calculating the precise mathematics needed to complete the process for over 800-1200 years. Gallifrey is locked away in a pocket universe, frozen in one moment.
10. Following the principles set down by Wedding of River Song, only the most recent incarnation remembers exactly what happened. The Warrior forgets he was redeemed and never thinks of himself as the Doctor beyond that one moment, Nine lives with the grief of what he's done, Ten is traumatised and becomes increasingly delusional as a result of his PTSD, and Eleven hides away his crimes in his head until these events.
11. A future incarnation of the Doctor, who's revisited an old face (Four) gives subtle hints to the Doctor about what he'll be doing next, and that Gallifrey is there to be saved. ---
Seems fine except for one thing.
In The End of Time, the Partisan says "[the Doctor] still possess the Moment. And he'll use it to destroy Daleks and Time Lords alike." That would imply that the High Council's emergency session was still going on when the War Doctor was in that desert region. When the General said "[The High Council] have plans of their own, but their plans have already failed," it seemed to me that he was just being extremely cynical of what the High Council had planned. - Not a major issue, but it does alter some details. ---
Tom Baker is the oldest surviving Doctor and the most iconic. To me he was the logical choice for the curator. - Couldn't agree with you more. Now that I think about it, it is kind of funny that Clara didn't recognize him, though I guess it's possible that she did and just wanted to give The Doctor a surprise. ---
I couldn't agree less, Tom 'EgoBoy' Baker spent years spitting in the faces of the other Doctors and Fans, refusing to be involved in the "The Five Doctors" b/c he wasn't the center of attention; got involved with Big Finish when he was slipping out of the minds of the fans.***
You're both right; Tom Baker's animus toward the production and the most iconic and logical choice in the end! Colin was no fan fave with few stories worth mentioning; though I loved "Vengeance On Varos" telecast during his "revisited!"
***It could have been any of the Doctors and still been a great scene, but it's understandable that it was Tom Baker. Before the show came back in '05 he was the most recognisable Doctor to the general public. I'm choosing to believe that he renegerates into more than one of his previous incarnations during his time as the Curator, a "farewell tour" so to speak. ---
Why did Hurt regenerate? I can definitely see Eccleston's face in the regeneration. Not just that, but people seemed to have missed that through the whole episode, Hurt was wearing an extremely familiar leather jacket that the 9th Doctor would end up wearing. ---
Lots of good theories here, but I think in the end the regeneration is simple old age, since it's a direct allusion to the 1st Doctor's regeneration scene. ---
This is the way I interpret what happened. He was completing the regeneration process, which had already begun in "Night of the Doctor." When the Sisterhood brought him back to life after the crash, it was only for a few minutes, unless he drank the other potion to accelerate the regeneration, but, he only changed halfway (in other words, he was Doctor #8.5). Since he was going against his principles, he stayed in this interim form for hundreds of years, not considering it a true regeneration. After the crisis was over, he let himself succumb to the ravages of the Time War. Remember, he used the 1st Doctor's words: "...this body is wearing a bit thin." Feeling vindicated, he completed the regeneration. This way, the numbering of the Doctor's forms remains intact: McGann-8, Hurt-8.5, Eccleston-9, Tennant-10, Smith-11, Capaldi-12, ?-13. ---
Neil Gaiman's opinion on the numbering - "We now know there was a regeneration btw the Paul McGann 8th Doctor and the Chris Eccleston 9th Doctor, one whom the Doctor himself has only just begun to regard as being The Doctor (as opposed to being something else)."
Pondering if it means fans now have to agree to renumber all the Doctors, he says: "I think the main purpose of numbering things is to communicate, and we all know who we mean when we say Doctors 9, 10 or 11. If anyone corrects you and says 'You mean 12TH!' when you say 'Matt Smith was the 11th Doctor' then that person is being irritatingly pedantic and should be pitied, in a nice way and with a gentle friendly, not-patronising sort of love, b/c they will have long hard lives ahead of them." ---
I'd personally prefer Hexidecimal over Duodecimal, which would allow for 16 regenerations:
1 - Hartnell 2 - Troughton 3 - Pertwee 4 - Baker, T. 5 - Davison 6 - Baker, C. 7 - McCoy 8 - McGann 9 - Hurt A - Eccleston B - Tennant C - Tennant (Handy) D - Smith E - Capaldi F - ? : 14 - Baker, T. (Curator) ---
With NO planetary debris field; how will Gallifrey be thought destroyed? - However, during the Dalek final assault on Gallifrey, the war had become time locked ... "By this point, the entire period of war had become "time locked," so that no time traveller could enter or exit it." Therefore, time travel could no longer be used to alter the outcome.***
Silly! Wouldn't someone or something have to be there to witness and analyze the debris at the time? You can't just come across it "willy nilly" years later! Space is vast and you have to know it's there; how many knew where Gallifrey really was situated?
***There were bits that didn't quite work (the Zygon plot that fizzled out a bit), but generally, I loved the interaction between Hurt, Tennant and Smith and, of course TOM EFFING BAKER!***
That covered it for me! It was well done, probably could have done without the Zygons, but overall seeing multi-Doctor episodes always lifts me up; actually still "verklempt" now thinking of Baker's cryptic ending speech! I can die happy now; so to speak! I think I'll have to put this one above the others since the beginning was so epic! I thought I was watching a feature film for a few minutes there!
***Okay, so from what I've heard, Steven Moffat has gone on record saying that with the insertion of the War Doctor into canon, coupled with the inclusion of Ten's aborted regeneration, Smith is now technically the thirteenth and final incarnation of the Doctor; an issue that he plans to resolve at Xmas. However, I've just been re-watching "Let's Kill Hitler," and in the scene where the dying Doctor's in the TARDIS conversing with the voice interface, it states that his ability to regenerate has been suspended by the poison. How can it suspend his regeneration if he doesn't have any regenerations left? ---
B/c back then Moffatt hadn't decided cramming John Hurt into the canon would be better than asking Paul Mcgann back.***
Hurt is a more established actor going back to the 70's in "The Naked Civil Servant!" Why was it easier to insert him over some "nobody" I haven't seen since that awful movie back in the 90's? This Christmas episode better make me a true believer if they want to change "canon!"
***Steven Moffat has been pretty faithful to the original 'Who' canon, and recently I rewatched the 'Trial' of Colin Baker's 6th Doctor. The prosecution was a ruthless Time Lord called The Valeyard who was revealed to be a future incarnation of The Doctor. The (Ainley) Master served as a witness who outed the identity of The Valeyard to be a version "somewhere in btw The Doctor's 12th and 13th regeneration."
This raises 2 questions:
1) Will we see The Valeyard now that the 12th Doctor is about to take over?
And
2) Will The Master be involved being he has clearly encountered The Valeyard?***
I guess I should feel terrible I had forgotten the Master showed up as a witness at "The Trial...!" ...I just never went back to rewatch Colin and Sylvester; their resp. Dalek ep the only staple you can't do without! ...The message board referenced the Valyard being a creation of the Time Lords other than a legitimate future incarnation! I hope I have that right!
***The Valeyard was cited as an amalgamation of the darker sides of The Doctors' various personalities, so in essence it was an artificially created being. So this means to me that it is entirely likely that there will not be a regeneration into this being. Perhaps we will see the Valeyard b/c The Master is the one who created him. ---
The Greatest Doctor Who Episode of All Time? - Either 'Pyramids of Mars' or 'The War Games'***
"Pyramids ...." is right up there, but I'd go with a bigger story arc; "Genesis Of The Daleks," "Seeds Of Doom," or "Talons Of Weng Chiang!" Nyder, Scorbie, and Mr. Sin slayed me even though not meant to be the main antagonists!
***I'm really going to have to go with the "Day Of The Doctor" on this one, not just b/c it's the most recently, but b/c it has replay value for me.***
Of the multi-Doctor episodes, they finally produced one more elaborate and worthy than my past fave; "The Two Doctors" with C. Baker and Troughton! Love them all, but this last one, 'DOTD' was almost epic; looked like a feature film! Brilliant!
I really like "Remembrance..." even w/ McCoy! You got to see 2 factions of the Daleks; renegades and Davros' latest version! As usual The Doctor just walks in and takes over in '63! It should be canon that Skaro was destroyed then!
***It is canon. It happened in McCoy's best episode, but he killed all the Thals. ---
Not that interested in the new series, ... I wondered if there were any female villains in the classic series? I find female villains more interesting, who else apart from the great Kate O Mara as the Rani? ---
My fave is Lady Adrasta (Myra Frances) from "The Creature from the Pit." Others are:
Miss Winters (Patricia Maynard), "Robot" Nurse/Queen Xanxia (Rosalind Lloyd), "The Pirate Planet" Camilla (Rachel Davies), "State of Decay" Kassia (Sheila Ruskin), "The Keeper of Traken" Helen A (Sheila Hancock), "The Happiness Patrol" Lady Peinforte (Fiona Walker), "Silver Nemesis" ---
There aren't an awful lot of female villains - most of the ones leaping to mind are in T Baker eps.
There's a female villain in Robot (s12e01), The Pirate Planet (s16e02), The Stones of Blood (s16e03), The Creature from the Pit (s17e03), The Happiness Patrol (s25e02), and Silver Nemesis (s25e03) And, you could argue, Snakedance (s20e02)
Some have women in villainous roles, but not THE villain as opposed to a 'henchman' sort of role. Enlightenment (s20e05), State of Decay (s18e04), The City of Death (s17e02), Warriors of the Deep (s21e01) and Four to Doomsday (s19e02) leap to mind.
Apparently the Hartnell story Galaxy Four had it's twist being that the cute, innocent looking blonde aliens were the villains.
Somehow I almost forgot The Two Doctors (s22e04) which has a very arch performance from Blakes 7's Jacqueline Pearce as Chessene o' The Franzine Grig. She's quite a memorable villain. ---
Lol At The Stinker That is the 50th An.!
1.-The unresolved plots. No explanation needed as to how Clara and the Doctor got out of the Doctor's timeline or why Clara doesn't remember anything about the Hurt Doctor. People can run and say that it was a period in his life that was timelocked, but then how in the hell did a Clara clone get onto Gallifrey in the 1st place if its whole history was time locked? Lets just not even mention the pointless storylines about the Zygons & Queen Elizabeth that went absolutely nowhere. This is one of the messiest things that Moffat has ever written, and thats a feat considering he penned "The Wedding of River Song" and "Lets Kill Hitler," among other clunkers.
2.-The horrible characterizations. I guess that Moffat was going for a gag with everything but Queen Elizabeth and Osgood were god awful characters played be horrible actors. ...To think they got paid for this mess when these checks could've gone to Martha Jones or Captain Jack instead.
3.-More on the fact that Moffat is just "as bad" as RTD, considering that The Moment was just a giant button he had to press that would've destroyed the galaxy. I love that when Moffat does the same *beep* as RTD, its lauded as brilliant. ...Also, the fact that Hurt's Doctor was hyped for almost a year to be a DARK Doctor and he ended up being a sad old puppy for all of his screen time? The only moment of "bad-assery" we got was when scribbled "No More" on the wall, and that was one of the cheesiest moments of this ep. All of this hype seriously just to have this lazy ass level of writing is so disappointing, its not even funny anymore.
I can only think of 3 positive things that I enjoyed in this ep; Matt Smith/David Tennant's interactions, Capaldi's cameo, & Tom Baker's scene at the end. Though TB's scene did leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth b/c there was Moffat again, making sure that he's the end all of Doctor Who; pretty much having set the ending for the title character of the show. -:) ***
***The Keeper of Traken - I think the idea in 'The Deadly Assassin' is not that he's burned or anything like that, just that his body is so far past the natural end of his 13th incarnation that it is more or less falling to pieces on him. ---
Fair enough, but isn't there a line the Master has in 'Traken' where he blames the Doctor for his decayed state and says that the last time they met before "The Deadly Assassin," the Doctor left him to die? It's been so long since I've seen 'Traken,'but I definitely remember something like that.***
Part of the Master's insanity manifested in him using the Doctor as an excuse for just about any and everything that went wrong or wasn't successful in his wretched life! He became even more delusional after he acquired "a new body" in "The Keeper Of Traken!"
***While it probably was a good time for Tom Baker to leave the show, JNT was one of the big reasons he did. The Man WAS Dr Who and JNT considers one of his big accomplishments as producer of Dr Who being getting Tom Baker to ... make up. ...***
From what little I remember of Tom Baker's era and his relationship behind the scenes with JNT, he supposedly was always threatening to quit! It was routinely ignored, put off, or placated between events! Tom "is" and forever "will be" The Doctor; just ask him!
***Steven Moffat - best and Worst episodes:
11th Hour – Just makes me grin from beginning to end Christmas Carol – The only great Christmas Doctor Who ep Impossible Astronaut – Almost perfect; even River
The Day of the Doctor – Had some daft stuff in the middle (Zygons, Elizabeth), but, "The 3 Doctors" were excellent and Tom Baker scene is probably my fave Dr Who scene of all time
The Big Bang – FINALLY a great finale episode! (still the best by a long way)
Girl In The Fireplace – Nice ep which stood head and shoulders above the standard of eps at the time
Blink – For the same reason as Girl in the Fireplace – strangely it’s the 1 ep where the (non recorded) scenes w/ the Doctor are the worst bits
Asylum of the Daleks – Excellent introduction of Clara, great production.
Worst – Basically the only Smith Episodes I don’t bother rewatching
Lets Kill Hitler – 1 reason – River Song maxed out to 11
The Name of the Doctor – I’m probably one of the few people who thinks Richard E Grant’s villain is terrible; very cartoon like. Thought this one didn’t work very well
The Wedding of River Song – Not actually terrible, just a disappointing finale after the Big Bang. ---
Would you like to see the Daleks show up in series 8 - I could see how they were overused a bit during Russell's yrs, ...one which was just plain dreadful; 'Manhattan.' Since Moffat took over, however, I think they've been used rather well. I know I'm in the minority of liking "Victory of the Daleks", but I think the sparce appearances in the season finales were appropriate and "Asylum" just about brought them to a whole new level. In "Day of the Doctor" they were pretty much essential. I'm happy to see them pop up in the pace they have since series 5 started. ...***
ITA - The Daleks are enduring; regardless of being misused or over-exposed! I'm more amused by them these days since they appear to have a concept of fear; of the Doctor anyway! It's funny how he can actual make them appear to quiver in their "pepper-pots," seemingly helpless as he rants at them!
***What did people think of "Asylum of the Daleks?" - I thought it was brilliant. Easily the best Dalek story since 'Doomsday,' and the second best season opener behind "The Eleventh Hour." I also think it had the best twist ending in a very long time. My biggest complaint about it would be the Amy/Rory storyline. It did feel slightly shoehorned in and was resolved a bit too quickly.***
Agreed! Love "Asylum," but could have done w/o the Amy/Rory drama! She looked stunning though! It was predictable that Clara was a Dalek though and it was heart-wrenching seeing the conclusion; more sacrifice for the Doctor! It takes me back to "Robots Of Death" and Tom Baker where a robot did the same thing for him!
***Unfortunately the Daleks have to appear at least once a year in order for the Terry Nation estate to be allowed to use them. That's why the crushed Dalek appears in the "Wedding of River Song" for a minute as it had yet to be used that year. ---
On the whole it hardly matters where you start if new to the show. Some episodes are better if you watch them in order, but as the Doctor would (and did) say: "First things first, but not necessarily in that order." (The 4th Doctor says those exact words and the 3rd Doctor says something very similar.)***
Tom Baker's, "Robot!" Nuff said! It starts small and builds with "Ark In Space" & "The Sontaran Experiment!" Love those stand-alone episodes; no arcs or continuing storylines during that period! Since Tom is the definitive 'Doctor,' you get to see him regenerate in "Robot," ending with "Logopolis" and his change into Peter Davison!
***There was an ever so tiny thread with that 1st season, but really all just to re-use the space station set. Other than that they were fairly independent. Those were some good years for stories. ---
Back in the day, was it always Known that the Doctor was going to regenerate or a new actor would take on the role? I know there was no Internet back then so word didn't get around as quickly. But I think it would have been cool to watch a episode of Doctor Who back in the day and all a sudden dude starts regenerating.***
The first few years I wasn't talking to anyone about the show, so it was always a surprise to me when a new actor took over! Even my college roommate and I were happily surprised to see the change in "Logopolis!" It just seemed like Baker had gotten old overnight; it was his time to go! He looked good laying there after fall! Both of us looked at one another to say, "welllll!" Davison was a doll after dealing with old men Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, & Hurndall ("The Five Doctors") in the roles!
***I'm not sure what to make of "Logopolis." It's sometimes brilliant and sometimes terrible. I love the atmosphere of part 1; sombre and threatening, but when the Master steps out of the shadows it does rather fall apart. The literally-flushing-the-Master-out-of-the-Tardis scene must be one of the worst ideas in the history of Dr Who.***
It was around this period in the series I considered dropping DW! Delgado's Master was starting to be more a pest in the Pertwee era, showing up behind plot after plot there for a while! Now Ainley who had taken over the role was being over utilized starting in season 18! He had just caused havoc in "Logopolis," only to show up again in the following episode of "Castrovalva!" I stayed with it though and marveled how they could explain The Master appearing out of nowhere, even trapped in the past w/o a TARDIS! With all that "time and space" between them, he continued to be a thorn in the Doctor's side!
***Rating the Doctors - Not to say that any of them were bad of course. They all did good jobs.
1) Christopher Eccleston & Matt Smith (tie) 2) John Hurt 3) Paul McGann 4) Colin Baker 5) Tom Baker 6) Peter Davison 7) David Tennant 8) Jon Pertwee 9) Sylvester McCoy 10) William Hartnell 11) Patrick Troughton ---
No none of them were bad, but I think It's a bit unfair to include Hurt. ---
So pretend I didn't list him and bump those beneath him up by one. :P
I am not going to discount him just b/c he's played by a famous actor; was still a legitimate incarnation in my eyes and gave a performance with its own merits just like those of all the others'.***
For some reason, I totally agree! The funny thing is, after all these years, it's McGann I haven't really embraced as "The Doctor!" Hurt really affected me in the role! I loved it! That shot at the end with all the Doctor's incarnations was quite moving to see! Hurt's looking out into space still makes me a little verklempt just visualizing it!
***The Master's Constant Returning in the 80s - I quite like the fact that the Doctor has a Moriarty figure, the Daleks are great and all but (imo) a character such as The Doctor needs that type of dark reflection of himself to fight against, so until they come up with a new character who adequately fulfills the criteria The Master is probably still the best person for the job!***
What you guys mentioned about the 80's and Ainley's Master is true enough, but it isn't the first time the franchise has overdone him! You forget Pertwee had to deal with Delgado's Master again and again! He could travel anywhere at any time, but he decided to maroon himself on Earth as well so he could taunt and undermine The Doctor! It was so ridiculous finding The Master behind plot after plot even when it included other villains like The Sea Devils and Silurians!
***I liked Clara a lot in The Snowmen, and thought she was going to become one of my favorite companions, but so far she's been rather one dimensional/flat - the impossible girl who likes children and saves the Doctor.***
Clara's definitely more insufferable than Amy and Donna! She's supposed to be so "with it," but still makes up an imaginary BF for her family to chew on! He has to drop everything to deal with that kind of nonsense?
***How old is the new Doctor; 60 or 80 years old? I don't think most people would think 55 is all that old. Besides, they have had older people play the Doctor at the beginning of a new regeneration. Look at the 3rd Doctor.***
It was shocking to go from a child to an old geezer like that! lol! He might not be that old, but he looks every year of it and more! I'm the same age and I know I don't look that old; well "Black don't crack" as they say!
***"The Time Of The Doctor" was a fantastic special with only one big flaw - I seem to be in minority here, but overall I found this years Xmas Special to be a highly enjoyable step up from last year. I thought the setup of the episode was fascinatingly well done for an enigmatic sci-fi series, and I was fully satisfied with the conclusion to the long-running Silence arc. The one thing that really lowered the episode from it's full potential for me were the out of place montages with cheesy narration a that someone in the production insisted on interrupting the story with. The seige of Trenzalore, which is really the only consequential piece remaining from The "Name Of The Doctor" at this point, as well as the 'Endless Bitter War' that was teased by Madame Kovarian, and that we so brilliantly are told was going on the whole time is cut down to a few fast forwarded seconds. Other than this, my only real gripe with the episode was the big apocalyptic cain-twirly regeneration sequence which ended up feeling totally out of place with the fantastic regeneration sequence that followed.
One thing that I thought of as a negative element when first watching the episode was the apparent retconning of Trenzalore as the Doctor's final resting place. However, as this episode addressed that element head on, and then proceeded to give us the 'twist' ending that everyone knew was coming. I now find that the "Name Of The Doctor" works quite well as an alternate future that the Doctor sees and acts upon before someone from ANOTHER universe alters his universe's time stream. I can fully accept that time is self contained within each of the universes and therefore can be altered w/o the 'it always happened' conundrum.
The last criticism I've seen brought up is the seeming plot hole in which the Silence blew up the TARDIS in order to prevent the Timelords from crossing through the cracks caused by the TARDIS explosion. However I see this more as the Timelords were always coming and the Silence simply created a stronger way for them to spread there signal; an example of time loops building upon each other. ---
After 10 seconds of the new Doctor - Peter Capaldi is the best actor in terms of his resume and critical acclaim prior to taking the role out of anyone who has played the Doctor since the new version starting with the 9th Doctor began. He is a brilliant actor in anything I've seen him in and I'm sure he will be an amazing Doctor. Also his look is reminiscent of Jon Pertwee's 3rd Doctor, arguably the best of the classic Doctors. To judge him so critically on literally 10 seconds of screen time is hilariously moronic.***
Gawd, he appeared OLD! Couldn't they use more make-up and maybe stand back a little? I thought it was Pertwee come back from the grave for a hot sec.!
***If you liked 'Day,' did you like 'Time?' - I adored 'Day,' but 'Time' was just so-so to me. That middle section was just sort of slow and strange; a lot of telling instead of showing.***
I agree with you more, preferring "Day!" I can watch it over and over with Hurt! Been a fan of his since the 70's with "Naked Civil Servant!" He wasn't long for "Alien," but he's always been quite memorable in his parts!
***Is BBC America always so terrible? - I watched The "Day of the Doctor" in theaters. I was at a friends house for Xmas and they are all fans of Doctor Who and had cable. We decided to watch ToTD when it aired at 9 and man was the experience terrible. I was expecting commercial breaks, but these were played at the absolute worst spots. The worst part to me was that they didn't even show the proper credits.***
It's been like that for a while now! I'm old and continue to tape them to VHS format! Hate when credits are clipped like that going into promo for the next program!
1. Tom Baker (The 1 incarnation I'm sure actually was an alien; the actor too) 2. M. Smith (A true mad man in a box) 3. P. McGann (Get the audio dramas) 4. P. Troughton (Fun and devious) 5. C. Eccleston (Fantastic) 6. S. McCoy (Wished we got more of the Cartmel Masterplan) 7. J. Hurt (Dude fought the Daleks) 8. W. Hartnell (Intriguing. Better as the mysterious character in the background) 9. Jon Pertwee (Enjoyed, but dry. Would have preferred the Brig as the main character) 10. C. Baker (Loud, fun, but an ass. Got better. Needed 1 more season; better attire) 11. P. Davison (he felt dull to me) 12. D. Tennant (by the end I WANTED him gone) ---
Who's worse: Adric or Wesley Crusher? - Westley Crusher. He participated in a cover up from a massive stunt that got a classmate killed, then became some kind of hippie and ultimately turned into some kind of a God. Sorry, he beats Adric by several orders of magnitude. At least Adric died in a final hopeless attempt to save the dinosaurs.***
True enough about Wesley, but I fault him more for "causing" more problems than he solved with his experiments! When he screws up, he reverts back into a kid trying to avoid informing mommy of his errors! So much for maturity with either of them! Adric was just annoying, always with the questions, then whining about going home by "Earthshock" where we lost him; the only time I really cried! I still get a little "verklempt" thinking about that ending after all these years! Very well done with silent running of credits!
***Is River Song Ever Coming Back? - Her story is told, we know who she is, her relationship with the Doctor, and how she dies. But having said that, I would like to see her appear again. She doesn't need to be the focus of the episode, just an extra companion.***
Some future Doctor will probably have reason to go pull her out of "the library" computer somehow! It'll be cheesy; esp. when she'll be much old, but they'll explain it away! Hopefully I'll be long gone! Never a fan! The show can only handle one ego-maniac at a time as far as I'm concerned!
***Now I've never been the biggest Paul Darrow fan; he tends to overact a bit. But I think he would of been brilliant as The Master in the 80s. He's probably too old now, but do you think He would of been good as The Master back in the 80s, if say he had regenerated from Anthony Ainley in '86 or so? ---
I loved him as Avon in "Blake's 7." Regardless of anything else he created one of the greatest tv characters of all time. Terry Nation even said that that he didn't write Avon that way. He originally wrote him as a dull character, but Darrow made him into the best character in the show.
If he played the Master like he did Avon in the earlier series as a cold, calculating, ruthless character who only cares about himself and is 2 steps ahead of everyone else, that would be excellent. However if he went overboard like he did as Maylin Tekker, then it would be dreadful. I think he would probably take the role more seriously than him. I think he only hammed up Tekker so much b/c the script was so obviously poor and w/o his hammy performance, most of "Timelash" would have been boring.***
I never wanted to see the Master again, but I can live with his return if they drag Darrow out to play the part! Not like he was a fave of mines on "Blake's 7," but I put the show right up there with "DW!" Loved how they got in and got out with not too many story arcs to remember! The episodes were so short; 50 min. when I taped them from PBS back in the mid 80's! Loved it! Terry Nation lives! Maybe bring back Jacqueline Pearce back as Romana!
1. Lived for over 450 years as the 2nd Doctor said he was 450 or something like that when he was born.
2. Lived for what we saw 3 years as Jamie was with him the whole time so he was 3 when he died, unless you consider Paul Cornell's season 6B canon in which case he lived for longer.
3. Lived for 300 hundred years as 4 was 700 when he started meaning 300 years have taken place between 2 and 4. Considering 2's short life it must have mostly taken place in 3's time. In between "The Green Death" & "The Time Warrior" he could have spent hundreds of years traveling as he had no companion unlike 2 who had Ben and Polly or Jamie.
4. Lived for 197 years as he was 700 to begin with whilst 6 was 900 when he started and 5 had a short life.
5. Lived for 3 years as like 2, he was never w/o a companion, so his life was what we saw.
6. Lived for 53 years as he was 900 when he started and 7 was 953 when he started.
7. Have no idea, but he at least lived for what, say 3 yrs?
8. No idea he could have lived for any long time, but in spin of material, he at least lives for 100 yrs.
The War Doctor presumably lived for over 400 years as the 1st Doctor died of old age unlike the others who were cut down in their prime. John Hurt who also died of old age lived that long too. Though later incarnations might have longer lives than the first as Matt Smith evidently lived longer, so the War Doctor could have lived for 900 years.
9. Lived for 1 year. When we first see him he has recently changed he comments on his ears and Moffat said he views 9 as a recently born Doctor in Rose. After that he travels with Rose the whole time so he is a young Doctor.
10. Lived for 6 years including the year that never was.
11. Lived for hundreds and hundreds of years, a full life like the War and the 1st Doctor. ---
Your math is correct, but the problem with it is that the 3rd Doctor is never alone, and there is no way for him to age substantially. The 4th Doctor says he is only 749 and life doesn't start until 750 but he may have been joking. The only gap where he could age substantially is between Deadly Assasin and "Face Of Evil" (and he CLEARLY did a lot then because of the effects of "Face Of Evil" itself).
There is no gap in 5's time, and 6 is a big mess but it doesn't seem that way. There could have been any length of time for 7, as you say, same with 8. I expect aging for a time lord is more about energy loss or damage or whatever than actual time, though there is a reference in "Leisure Hive" for how long it takes a Time Lord to LOOK old. The Doctor also got rejuvenated there too.
It is strongly implied that Ecleson's Doctor turns up right after the events of "Day of the Doctor" and based on the episode Rose, he immediately turns up on Earth after that regeneration.
(This means that the Moment didn't just pick from the Doctor's future, it picked her IMMEDIATE future, and may have affected the Doctors decision to pick Rose to begin with.)
And he's w/ Rose the entire time, so no Gap. 10 has 2 gaps and 11 has one in story gap. Amy and Rory as well as Clara were companions; he went back to visit so time is arbitrary.
There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that the Doctor no longer has any idea how old he actually is, but there is a strong case that 2, 3, 5 & 9 were limited to the time we see on screen. The others could have been any length of time one might pick.***
***Most adult/horrific episode, new Who and old? - School Reunion: Features a child being eaten alive before the opening credits.**
I have to go look it up, but Peter Davison was in an episode dealing with Sea Devils and Silurians, and by the end, everyone was dead besides him and his companions; Turlough and Tegan! IIRC it was in an undersea base and the Doctor had no choice but to knock them off! It was "Warriors Of The Deep!"
***If I recall there were still human survivors on the base and it was they who used the reptile killing gas on the Silurians/Sea Devils whilst the Doctor vainly tried to reason with them. I always thought that Davison's Doctor was just a little too wishy washy in many ways; contrast that with Colin Baker's annihilating the Vervoids.***
You're right; 1 or 2 humans besides Turlough and Tegan survived! In "Family Of Blood," could he have been more vengeful at the end? It didn't bother me, but sympathy, kindness, and forgiveness went out the window! lol! They deserved it though!
***The Evanescent Planet Gallifrey
-Eccleston's DW: "I killed off my entire race and the Daleks. I feel incredibly guilty."
-David Tennant's DW: "The End of Time:" The Time Lords found a way to survive the Great Time War. However the Time Lords are evil. "I can not allow them to return and take over the universe."
-Smith's DW: "Day of The Doctor:" Gallifrey survived the Great Time War in a pocket universe. The Time Lords aren't so evil after all. I'm going to make it my life's mission to search and rescue them.
Matt Smith's DW: "Time of the Doctor:" "I'm wandering the universe with a Cyberman's head as a companion ala Wilson. I completely forgot that I made it my life's mission to find Gallifrey."
"The Time Lords have found a way for me to rescue them, but I can not seem to be able to do that just now." ---
Galifrey was about to crush the Earth. It was either A) losing the Earth at the cost of the entire TimeWar coming through the gate ( which was why he initially destroyed it ) plus mad Rassilon and his gang who were still going to fulfill his Final Sanction (aka destroying the Universe) - or B) moving on. He chose B)
That was admittedly a bit stupid of the Doctor talking about making it his life's work in finding Gallifrey. I mean he leaves "The Day of the Doctor" with a cliffhanger stating Galifrey was his "destination," "where he was going, where he had always been going," obviously full of fire and passion to find it. And then we cut to "The Time of the Doctor" where blatantly says "Galifrey is lost in another Universe, it cannot be saved," but I'll just pass it off as a goof and choose B) moving on as well. I didn't like "Time of the Doctor," nor will I ever. I will leave it, past behind me, and look at the brighter future of Capaldi's 1st season. I suggest you do the same as well.***
***Classic-series characters you would like to see return? What companions (or supporting characters of any sort) from the classic series would you like to see return in the new series? ---
Jamie is the #1 character I want back. He was the longest serving companion. He grew so much with the Doctor and to have his memories erased was just so sad. I know there is the whole 6B thing but it doesn't fully work for me and I would love a more emotional reunion between the Doctor and an older Jamie.***
I never got into the other formats of the show, so Romana would be the most logical choice for me! Someone said she went back to Gallifrey and became Lord President! The last I saw of her was in "Warrior's Gate" and was left in E-Space with K-9 II! ---
***Immortality goes beyond just being able to regenerate over and over. What Borusa was seeking in "The Five Doctors" doesn't even contradict what Troughton said about Time Lords being able to live forever "barring accidents," b/c that's only virtual immortality. True immortality is like what Jack Harkness has; not even injuries or illnesses can kill him.***
It's been a while, but I have a faint recollect of the "Time Lords" all being linked through the Matrix; controlled by the crown, septor, and sash handed down by Rassilon! The Lord President has the power to grant more regenerations; maybe taking them from someone else! Rassilon obviously made sure there would be no extended stay for some meglomaniac; hense 4 heads of past Presidents who were looking for immortality in his tomb!
***...it's been a while since I watched "The Five Doctors" and in "Time Of The Doctor" it could be anything from a thank you for saving Gallifrey or maybe they just knew that they had to, seeing as all 13 Doctors showed up to save Galifrey; might have just been a necessity to grant the Doctor more regenerations. ---
Just got the box set of the "regenerations" and would like to have some sort of list drawn up, from the best to the worst, just so that I know what to expect.
Classic Series:
"Caves of Androzani" is generally considered the best, and is regularly voted by fans as one of the top Classic Who stories ever.
"The War Games" is long but good, and is very well regarded.
After that it gets a bit tricky b/c there's much more variation of opinion on the quality of the following stories:
"Planet of the Spiders" has some problems, mainly with the parts of the story that are set on the eponymous planet of the spiders - it is a place of bad acting and cheap costumes and sets.
"Logopolis" is interesting and has a good regeneration sequence, but few people rate it as a great serial.
"The Tenth Planet" features the 1st appearance of the Cybermen, but many people have criticised it for being kind of boring, plus its last episode is missing so it has an animated episode instead; something which not everybody likes.
"Doctor Who: The Movie" has good production values and a good performance by Paul McGann, but its script is heavily criticised, as is the performance of Eric Roberts as the Master.
"Time And The Rani" is generally considered to be one of the worst serials in the show's history, and Colin Baker would not come back to film a regeneration scene (can't blame him, he was treated badly)so the regeneration itself is kind of crappy.
For the post 2005 series, "Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways" I think is considered better than "The End Of Time," but opinions tend to vary.***
...The last I saw of Romana was in "Warrior's Gate" and she was left in E-Space with K-9 II!
***Romana being Lord President of Gallifrey was established in the animated miniseries of "Shada," which was webcast shortly before the new series began, and was made as a canonical continuation of the TV series, starring the 8th (at that time, the current) Doctor.
Given that the animated Shada fits the criteria for canonocity ...and it even was released as part of the main DVD range on disc two of the Tom Baker "Shada" ep. I have always considered it to be an official continuation of the actual TV show, even before "Night Of The Doctor" made the Big Finish audios implicitly canon. Thus, I assume that in the current reality of the show, Romana is still on Gallifrey, or at least was prior to the Time War. At the very least, she was back from E-Space, although how she got back is never fully explained. That would actually make her return a lot easier to arrange, particularly given the new plot developments surrounding Gallifrey!***
I watched a minute or 2 of "Shada" on You-Tube, but just never got into it! I thought it was a bunch of out-takes pasted together; thought it was a joke perpetrated by someone!
***The animated 8th Doctor one? Nah, it's real, alright! The animation certainly looks low-budget and primitive, but you have to keep in mind that it was flash animation done for web in the early-2000s; was the best they could do given the circumstances! I actually quite like the art design, though- and Paul McGann and Lalla Ward are both great in their roles, and have fantastic chemistry.
If you can get around the animation, I highly recommend it: a great puzzle piece linking the '96 movie and the new series, and it's awesome to have another on-screen serial with McGann as the 8th Doctor, even if it is just low-budget animation. ---
I'm not a huge fan of Amy Pond. I didn't mind her all that much. "The Eleventh Hour" is still one of my all time favorites. But as far as companions go, I like Clara much better.***
Both Amy and Clara are just as annoying! The Doctor can he trying to save a planet, but they are so needy, both nag him more than a wife! "I need a BF for Xmas dinner!" Stupid!
***Who is the Curator? - I think perhaps he was a creation in the same manner of the Valeyard. Perhaps when the 13th Doctor is trying to find a way to break the 12 regeneration limit, he not only creates the Valeyard but also gives life to some of his past incarnations.***
I've watched that scene many times, and it hits me hard every time! The closing shot with music and all the Doctors standing there just makes me so "verklempt!" Can't help it! ---
"An Adventure In Space And Time" - What was the deal with Matt Smith having a cameo at the end of the movie? What was that all about? Got me as "verklempt" as any multi-Doctor episode! I don't know why it affects me like that each time they do it! Seeing Tom really broke me up in "Day Of The Doctor!"
***Anyone else find the 1st Doctor too unlikable and cold? - I think the only Doctors that really carried that over from Hartnell were T Baker, C Baker, & Smith. It's just in the case of Tom and Matt, their humor and silliness were a counterbalance to their dark side. Hartnell mellowed a bit as the series wore on, but always remained somewhat gruff.***
He was old, doddering, and sick during that period; '63-'66, then '72 sitting in for "The Three Doctors!" I'm just glad he performed well enough that it wasn't cancelled! Colin had his moments as well; what was his excuse? ---
The classic era was being undermined by the actual producers back then if you look at it's history! It was on shoestring budgets where I heard the actors and crew often had to bring in junk from their homes and garages to supplement the staging!
***Regeneration Limit - The Time Lords did offer the Master a new set of regenerations in "The Five Doctors," so I suppose it doesn't violate the continuity of the classic series for them to do the same for the Doctor.***
The only thing that violates it in my mind is believing The Time Lords would listen to Clara's plea; esp. about "loving The Doctor!" IIRC! There was nothing but animus, thinking him a rogue figure; equivalent to The Master!
***Can't agree more! - That's true... prior to the point where The Doctor is the one who saved Gallifrey from certain destruction in "TDOTD," and clearly was the only person capable of finding them and restoring the planet.
Several times throughout the classic series, the Time Lords called on the Doctor to bail them out of an esp. bad situation b/c they knew he could get it done. No, they still didn't like him, and only begrudgingly and nervously enlisted his help, but they at least respected what he could do.
But by this point, when he literally has become THE person who single-handedly saved their planet from destruction, I have no trouble believing that they're now very happy with him indeed. Love is probably still a strong word, but he's entirely to thank for saving their planet, culture, and collective lives. ---
What are your opinions on every Doctor?
1. Liked his grandfatherly, crotchety ways, but not very alien. 2. Silly & clever, established the quirky style Doctor. Very likeable. 3. My fave for his intelligence, strength, and his rarely seen soft side. 4. The iconic Doctor, expanding the Troughton quirkiness and cementing the character. 5. Too human, too dull, but an all around nice guy. 6. I liked his arrogance and colorful personality. I like assertive Doctors. 7. Hated him at 1st, but came to enjoy him towards the end, esp. with Ace. 8. Charming and likeable in the movie, but not very Doctor like, which happend later. 9. My other fave, damaged, bitter, but showed a cathartic progression I loved. 10.Hipster Doctor #1, fun, playful, a bit too melodramatic; great ride. 11.Hipster Doctor #2, childlike, playful, a bit too manic; great ride. 12.TBD - but I'm hoping for more like 3,6,9 - a bit serious, arrogant and militant. ---
1 - Very mysterious. Love the eps of his that I've seen. 2 - Great. I love how he can be goofy one 2nd, than intense the next. 3 - My fave of the classic series. So very professional and grand. 4 - Like you said, much more alien than others. Love the "I walk in eternity" line ... 8 - I haven't listened to any of the audio stories but he's one of my faves based just on the movie & NOTD War - Won me over as one of my faves in the very little we saw of him. 9 - My all time fave Doctor as he was my intro to the show 10 - Good, but a bit overrated tbh. I don't know; maybe it was that he didn't have as good of stories. 11 - Definitely grew on me and became one of my faves. See what I said about 2.***
***Question about the Borg - There is no official origin in "canon." There's a theory that the machine planet in TMP is the Borg homeworld, but I don't think its a very good theory.***
The 1st time Picard had an encounter with the Borg was due to Q being a little malicious! He actually gave them early warning by moving the Enterprise into Delta quandrant to experience dealing with the Borg!
***ITA; always viewed Qs actions as doing them a favor, by making them aware. I often wonder if he was actually looking out for The Enterprise in his warped way. ---
I've often thought the Borg started out as a friendly collective until the Borg Queen joined the collective. being that she was insane, she took over control of all the others. ---
Rank all decades for DW - (70s)---The Best
1970-'74 The Pertwee years were great, but '74-'79 Baker era was even better
(1960s)---2nd Best, '63-'66 was great with my 2nd fave Doctor Hartnell
(1980s pt 1)---Ok, Mixed Bag I would say the 1980-'81 so the 2nd half of Baker's S17 and The whole S18 were very good
(1980s pt 2)---I will put this separate b/c I think Davison's 1981-'84 reign was overall good, but I don't think it matched Baker's final 2 yrs
(2005)------I think the '05 season with Eccleston was much better than both the 1984-'86 C Baker yrs and the 1987-'89 McCoy yrs
(1980s pt 3)-----McCoy was ok, sometimes weak, sometimes mediocre
(2005-'10)---Tennant's era while I am not a fan was pretty good, I prefer older though
(1996)---The Movie Was ok, I wish McGann did more ---
As others have said, "Destiny Of The Daleks" gets off to a bad start with Romana's regenerstion (although "Night of the Doctor" has probably provided a possible explanation for how she could. ("try on" bodies) It's a good, if formulaic Nation story let down by the Movellans, and sadly Terry Molloy's Davros just isn't as effective as Michael Wisher's.***
Funny, Davros is Davros! It never mattered to me who portrayed him! The character never changed regardless of the makeup, mask, and actor used in each ep.! I wonder why it did make such a difference to people?
***Partly b/c Michael Wisher nailed the part in "Genesis" and, for me personally, it's also b/c I can't stand the Davros mask that Terry Molloy wore. ---
The importance of the Doctor? - A great script still needs at least a good actor to pull them off, and even Sir Ben Kingsley can't save some of the movies he's in, but his own performances are typically great.***
If you looked at "Time & Space" which chronicled Hartnell's beginning as the Doctor, the show has always been in jeapardy; actors leaving, shoe-string budgets, etc.! I even heard cast and crew brought in junk from their homes or garages to use in the show! It's a wonder it's lasted so long and things always seem to work out; even with Colin as the star way back when!
***It was essentially Hartnell's faltering health and general difficulty to work with that ultimately gave us the show we know today. If he had been less cranky, or they put up with him until the show was less popular, they wouldn't have bothered regenerating him at all.
The show got nothing for a budget. The whole 'trapped on Earth' thing for the 3rd Doctor was essentially a money saving decision. As the show gained in popularity, it got more money, and was in good shape by the time Tom Baker took over; things got even better. While I enjoyed Peter and Sylvester (and have great sympathy for the disaster Colin Baker walked into) the show never quite regained its footing after that. It doesn't matter how good the actor is or isn't, if behind the scenes its a "gong show."
The show also benefits greatly from the fact that decent monster effects and movie quality CG are all quite affordable now, providing some fantastic effects the old show could only dream of.***
***What kind of Doctor Who fan do you consider yourself?
Background: My 1st experience with DW was the Peter Cushing film, "Doctor Who and the Daleks" which I saw as a 6 or 7 y.o. The Daleks scared the bejesus out of me, most of it I couldn't recall til I saw it again a few years ago, and that was after I saw "The Daleks," which of course was the basis for the non-canonical movie.
My 1st DW proper were the Tom Baker serials that PBS in the States aired in the early 80s; I saw a handful of those. Later in the decade I watched a couple of the McCoy serials. My interest in DW has developed over the last 7 or 8 yrs. Through Netflix, I started watching the classic series from the beginning as I began p/up DVDs to own, starting with the Tom Baker years as he is "my" Doctor.
Classic Who: Fave Doctors, most to least: Tom Baker, McCoy, Pertwee, Troughton, Davison, Colin Baker, Hartnell. B/c I don't have the exp. of having "grown up" w/ any of the Doctors, I don't have the sense of having seen the show grow as I'm essentially experiencing it retrospectively. The Tom Baker Era is my favorite b/c I think the series was at the height of its powers under the Philip Hinchcliffe-Robert Holmes direction, although Season 16, the Key to Time season, is my favorite. D4's companions in this time--Sarah Jane, Leela, my absolute favorite Romana Mk. I, and Romana Mk. II--are all among my favorites. The last 2 seasons of McCoy's era are I think overlooked gems and really are the transition to NuWho.
DW in the 60s strikes me as slow and ponderous. Hartnell eventually grew a little on me, but I never really warmed up to him even though I'll probably p/up "The Meddling Monk" and a couple of others at some point. Troughton is delightful, but I feel robbed that so many of his serials are not available; I've got "The Mind Robber" and "The Krotons" (largely because Holmes wrote it) and would pick up a few more from his time. Pertwee's time is uneven--his 1st season, with Liz Shaw as the companion, is terrific. Tom Baker's time is marred only by Douglas Adams's reign as script editor although "The Creature from the Pit" is a guilty-pleasure fave. Davison's time is such a muddle, and DW was becoming a body-count epic by now. Colin Baker was, I thought, just the kick in the pants DW needed, but apart from "Vengeance on Varos" and parts of "Trial of a Time Lord," he had a tough go of it. So did McCoy during his 1st season, but his next 2 (the alleged "Cartmel Masterplan") are golden. The '96 movie with Paul McGann is fine although it does seem like what an American version of DW would look like.
Classic Who vs. NuWho: When the reboot became available in the US in '06, I watched the first 3 seasons. The differences btw new and old were immediately obvious even as my classic-Who exp. was pretty limited at that time. When the channel that initially carried NuWho stopped carrying it, I stopped watching b/c I didn't get the new channel.
Maybe it's b/c the classic series doesn't have any apparent hanky-panky going on in the TARDIS--well, I'm not so sure about D6 and Peri, or D7 and Ace--whereas that does seem to be the order of the day for NuWho.
I have just finished up the 1st season of NuWho after not seeing it for years. I really do like Eccleston as the Doctor although he didn't get many good stories. God, "Dalek" is worse than I remembered, although I really like "The Unquiet Dead," "The Empty Child," and "Bad Wolf" the best. I'm moving onto David Tennant's 1st season and will go from there. That's just the kind of fan I am.***
***The Master's most evil scheme? - Well Blackmailing the universe in "Logopolis" has to be the worst thing. He was prepared to destroy the entirety of creation.***
That truly was the worst! Through his evil deeds we lost planets and people, but it didn't stop his meglomania! Whatever sympathy you had for him and his plight had to be ignored after that! He had no mercy in his heart and his endeavors took precedent over all else! I guess you could say the Rani was just as merciless; absolutely no heart even though they're supposed to have 2!
***How many times has the Doctor saved the universe? So far I have got:
The Three Doctors, Omega would have most certainly destroyed the universe had it not been for the 3 Doctors.
Genesis of the Daleks, the Time Lords said the Daleks would have destroyed the universe had it not been for the 4th Doctor fk'n with their timeline.
Pyramids of Mars, Sutekh was probably the most powerful foe the Doctor ever faced. He was like a living reality Bomb and may have even destroyed other universes. He certainly would have destroyed ours. Even the Time Lords couldn't stop him.
The Armageddon Factor, the Black Guardian would have torn the universe apart with the Key to Time.
The Invasion of Time, the Sontarans would have destroyed every single universe had it not been for the Doctor using the Time Lords power.
Logopolis, obviously The Master would have caused the end of the Universe had it not been for the Doctor.
Stolen Earth/Journey's End, the 10th Doctor obviously saved every universe, though to be fair he was so useless most of the work should go to his companions.
The End of Time, this one we can give to Tennant who saves every universe from the Time Lords.
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang, he saves every universe from destruction and rebuilds it too.
The Wedding of River Song, I am not sure I am going to count this one as I don't think River would have let the universe really die.
So far I have 9 times, 4 of which were saving every universe. ---
He also brought an end to the Time War, which threatened all of reality. Although I'm not sure if that counts, since he seemingly wasn't the one who time-locked the War, he just ended it. But the universe would still be disintegrating if it weren't time-locked. - Fun fact: This also means that when the Great Intelligence invaded the Doctor's time scar in "The Name of the Doctor," the universe started to die this many times at once in this many different ways. ---
5 "Doctor Who" choices for a Time Capsule?
1. An Adventure in Space and Time 2. Genesis of the Daleks 3. City of Death 4. The Five Doctors 5. The Day of the Doctor***
I find no reason to make addition or subtraction! Nice job!
***The Kaleds seen in Genesis of the Daleks are Nazis in all but name. ---
I'm very sceptical of that statement. Only Davros and the ghastly Nyder appear to me to be Nazis; most of the other Kaleds that we got to know were quite good guys.
The Kaled Squad Leader who was the only one enthusiastic about Sarah's escape plan, and later sacrificed himself to stop and help Sarah when she was struggling and was killed as a result.
Ronson, the scientist who risked everything to help the Doctor and Harry to escape from the bunker to expose Davros to the Kaled people and was executed by Davros.
Mogran, the high level Gov't minister who took the trouble to listen to the Doctor's concern about Davros and the Daleks and later agreed to close down Davros's Dalek project.
Gharman, Kavell, and many others who initially covertly opposed Davros, helped the Doctor and Harry and later staged an open revolt against Davros.
On the other hand the Thals were hardly good guys. They committed genocide with their explosive packed rocket; made Sarah and the other prisoners work w/o protective clothing exposing them to radiation. One soldier held Sarah over the edge of the rocket gantry and threatened to send her crashing down hundreds of feet, etc. ---
That's an interesting analysis. I think that b/c of the events of The Daleks, there's a tendency to see the Thals as the good guys, but 'Genesis' does bring that into question. In The "Daleks," the Thals say that before the war they were farmers and the Daleks/Kaleds were teachers and philosophers, perhaps the centuries of war had brutalised the Thals while the Kaleds, apart from Davros and Nyder had managed to retain their principles. On the OP, they're not "Nazis" as such, but the RSF in "Inferno" are definitely fascist.***
I never considered the Thals as being good; in any way! They were given the formula to break down the Kaled dome and did just that instead of peacefully trying to deal with issues! It's hard to believe they wanted to do anything but conquer the Kaleds; totally annihilating them in the end except for Davros and his scientific bunker mates! ---
***Why do people hate River Song so much? I'm honestly curious.***
There's only room for one ego-maniac in this show, and we all know both the Doctor and Song have huge ones! I believe there's some resentment that she knows more than him in a lot of these dramatic arc scenerios spanning multi-seasons/series!
***They crossed the line with her rambling on about how the Doctor isn't driving the Tardis properly since she criticizes him for leaving the parking break on being the cause of the cool sound the Tardis makes on landing, despite the fact that every OTHER Tardis or similar technologies every OTHER Time lord uses also makes the same sound. Apparently she is the only one in the entire history of Time lords that realized you needed to turn off the parking break before landing.***
***Which Story Feels Most Like a Classic Series Story? - Irrespective of what I personally think of them, I'd say that the following feel the most like classic Who:
The Unquiet Dead - Gothic, Hinchcliffe-era style. Quite leisurely paced for a 45 min. story
New Earth - Feels like something ridiculous and glittery from McCoy's 1st series
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit - Not so much b/c it's an indirect sequel to Pyramids of Mars, but b/c it's virtually a remake of The Robots of Death
Human Nature/The Family of Blood - Really creepy, countryfied 2-parter, light on CGI and w/ a simple yet effective monster design
The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky - A Pertwee-era story in all but Doctor
The Waters of Mars - Classic base-under-seige stuff surprisingly light on explosive effects. Wouldn't be remotely jarring if you switched Tennant for Davison
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood - Again, near enough a remake of The Silurians, and w/ the pacing and tone of that story intact
The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People - 90 mins of running around in a bunker. Classic Who wasn't w/o its faults
Journey To The Centre of The TARDIS - Why Moffat commissioned a remake of Ep. 5 of The Invasion of Time is beyond me, but there it is
The Day of The Doctor - All the UNIT stuff, the spirit of The 3 Doctors and the historical Zygon romp; it's the offspring of the Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker eras***
I think most any "standalone" ep. has a classic feel and can be recast with a past Doctor; no problem! The thing about NuWho that makes them so different is the perpetual story arcs about "The Time War," River Song, and a 'crack in the wall!'
***Donna's only reason for being in the TARDIS is b/c she needs to be the Doctor Donna; use the Doctor's powers better than he ever could in the most important battle in the entire history of Doctor Who. She gets his powers, proves to be more worthy and effective with them, stomps his greatest foes in like 2 seconds, thinks of things 2 of him couldn't manage and says she is better; he can't accept it!***
I was never a fan of Donna's! Like some out here, I need for the Doctor's companions to be more than helpless damsels in distress who cause more problemss than they solve! Martha was a professional, Adric and Nyssa have obviously uses, Cap. Jack and Turlough were good techs, but Rose, Amy, Donna, & even Clara can't really do anything but wait to be rescued!
***Yes I agree, a companion who can help him like Sarah, Leela, Ace, River, Amy, Rory, the Brig and Ian and Barbara are always better. But there's a difference btw that and completely undermining him. I mean that's just a rule of fiction; Robin is a good sidekick for Batman (depending on the canon LOL), but I wouldnt want a Batman story where he becomes a better crime fighter and knocks the Joker out in 5 secs & tells Batman he's useless. ---
I love Donna b/c "Sometimes you need someone to stop you." B/c up until Journey's End, she was a great companion, NOT besot with the Doctor, and someone truly worthy of being in the TARDIS with him.***
***The best Doctor doppelgänger - it annoys me that they have some big plan in place to explain how Capaldi can be the Doctor when he was also in "Fire Of Pompeii" and Torchwood, ..."Commander Maxill looks like the next Doctor... just cos!" I think they are better off just leaving it be with no explanation.***
Most true fans are just accepting of what happens! Early on, I definitely remember Colin Baker playing Commander Maxil in "Arc of Infinity"; didn't stop him from becoming the Doctor later!
***Fave story of each Doctor - Exlude multi-Doctor eps (except in the case of the War Doctor). These are mine:
First Doctor - "The Space Museum"
Second Doctor - "The Mind Robber"
Third Doctor - "The Green Death"
Fourth Doctor - "Genesis of the Daleks"
Fifth Doctor - "Resurrection of the Daleks"
Sixth Doctor - "The Ultimate Foe"
Seventh Doctor - "Remembrance of the Daleks"
Eighth Doctor - Doctor Who TV movie
War Doctor - "The Day of the Doctor"
Ninth Doctor - "Dalek"
Tenth Doctor - "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End"
Eleventh Doctor - "The Pandorica Opens"/The Big Bang"
Twelfth Doctor - "The Time of the Doctor" ---
1st: The Daleks 2nd: The War Games 3rd: Inferno 4th: Genesis of the Daleks 5th: Enlightenment 6th: Revelation of the Daleks 7th: Greatest Show in the Galaxy 8th: Terror Firma 9th: Dalek 10th: Blink 11th: The Rings of Akhaten 12th: Day of the Doctor*** ---
***I want a FUGLY ALIEN COMPANION from a different time period next! - On the cat thread, I suggested one of those cat-people from New Earth.***
Before finding out Clara had invaded the Doctor's time stream, it seemed more than plausible that he'd go back and save the Dalek of "Asylum Of The Daleks!" The only one he hasn't saved who helped him out is River Song who's still stuck in the "Library" computer!
***Is it even still possible to save River from the computer?***
Probably not, but you know how the show is; Strax and quite a few other villains showed up in "A Good Man Goes To War!"
***I'm with you man, instead of the usual female companion. I really hope the Doctor will rescue Dalek Clara. That will be an interesting combination; the Doctor and the "sexy" Dalek. ---
Romana's 'regenerations' in Destiny Of The Daleks - It is unclear how old she is and never exactly explained why she would regenerate on a whim so we can only speculate.
1) If you are not in the middle of dying you can in fact pick your look with great precision.
2) Within a period of regenerating it is possible to change your look.
And the most speculative based on the idea that Romana was just barely over 100 as I recall, a recent college graduate of sorts based on conversations in the previous season and probably not far off whatever passes for puberty in Time Lord Society so.***
I'm pretty sure she mentioned her age the first time she met the Doctor after his consultation w/ "Black/White" Guardian for the "Keys To Time" story-arc! Tamm wanted out, refusing to be subservient to The Doctor so Lela Ward was held over from "The Armageddon Factor!" 'Destiny Of The Daleks' was a good start to a new season with Davros and The Daleks! To this day I'm not sure if The Time Lords had maneuvered him into going back to Skaro or was it happenstance?
***But best guess is that the Jacobi Master was the one that the High Council created. ---
That's what I like to think, even if it was a younger version that was fighting in the Time War. Wanted more Jacobi Master. Now we have an older Doctor I would guess we'll get an older Master.***
But if that's the case, why is the Master "hiding out?" His consciousness was being held in a watch, just like when the Doctor was sorta "on the run" from "Family Of Blood!"
***Yes, well if the Jacobi Master was the one the High Council created, then he didn't fight in the Time War and in fact ran to the farthest reaches of time to get away from it. So the FOB watch was to be sure that even there he wasn't dragged back into the Time War. In other words the Master ran to the distant future and used a chameleon arch to hide himself once there. ---
It has been suggested over the years that the "War Chief" and even 'Meddling Monk' may have been earlier incarnations of the Master.
I don't think the writers planned for the WC and Master to be the same person, more likely the War Chief was sort of a prototype for the future Master. I wouldn't be bothered if the show runners wanted to connect the 2 characters at some point though. ---
Yeah a lot of the early stuff has been 'tweaked' to fit later ideas; origin of the Daleks, so there's no reason why the WC isn't the Master. I've often wondered if the The Valeyard could really be an incarnation of the Master, trying to pass a version of himself off as a Doctor?***
***The 8th Doctor - Moffatt chose not to have McGann as the war Doctor as he couldn't see his character being so involved in the Time War. ---
B/c he wasn’t a fan of the big finish stuff, he assumed no one else but a few fans would be. The reality was that far from being a tiny niche following Mcgann's audio plays have kept big finish alive, for a long time outselling everything else on the website. - You're wrong; he does love Big Finish. The War Doctor was originally meant to be Eccleston, but he didn't want to do it. ---
Well that's it then, conclusive proof, debate over, Moffatt loves Big finish b/c The war Doctor was supposed to be Chris!***
Sorry, even though I appreciated Fox producing that abomination of a movie almost 20 years ago, I can still take or leave '8!' Hurt playing the "War Doctor" took me back in so many ways! It was a great idea and produced quite well! Shocking!
***Pls don't assume I didn't like John hurt; he was brilliant in the part, but both Moffatt and the BBC saw Mcgann as a loose end rather than anything w/ a fanbase, and they were overwhelmed when fan response said other wise. ---
Which Classic Who villain do you think was handled the best in New Who? - I like Tennant; he was just hamstrung by RTD's awful writing. The "I don't want to go" bit; awful. No other Doctor has whined like that and it was a betrayal to the character.***
Agreed! Even though I love the Daleks and have those eps highlighted on my list, they've been overdone since NuWho; sorry! When you have them jumpy and scaird of the Doctor; "come on!" Production seemed to go over to the "dark side" when you actually had Daleks disguised as humans in "Asylum!" I expected the Doctor to take Dalek Clara onboard the TARDIS; gotten so schmaltzy! All I could think was "who's writing this stuff?" Are Daleks cuddly now?
***Susan annoys the behind off me. All she does is scream all the time, whine and shout 'grandfather;' so annoying. What about you? Do you think she's worse than Adric?***
Nyah; she was portraying a "girl!" What did you want her to do "karate chop" and "judo throw" Yeti's around like Zoe or Leela? No one more annoying than Adric since he wasn't a moron like Tegan! She had reason "to be dim," but he was just a whiny kid in the end; wasn't missed after "EarthShock" either!
***Best and Worst of the Cybermen
best (old - Tomb Of The Cybermen) - - (new - Nightmare In Silver)
worst (old - Attack Of The Cybermen) - - (new - Revenge of the Cybermen)***
Even though I liked the stand alone production of "The Next Doctor," it embarrassed the legacy of the Cybermen yet again! They find a hateful woman to become their Cyber-Queen who in turn becomes a component to create a Cyber-King! Lame!
***Oh right, I forgot about "The Next Doctor" (and I was happy) that one can be my vote for worst too***
***Rumoured Series 8 episode titles...an Egyptian mummy loose on The Orient Express....IN SPACE!***
They've come close to that scenerio in the past! When you have dinosaurs on a ship, all you can do is...'SMH!' We've had space vampires, a Frankenstein monster in "Morbius," and "Seeds Of Doom" was somewhat of a "rip off" of "The Thing!" "Midnight" follows the historic formula of movies I grew up watching! A space Titanic crashed into the TARDIS, ... I could go on! When a show's been on this long, what plotline hasn't been exploited; real or imagined by individuals?
***Are you my mummy? Oh, wait, wrong kind of mummy, never mind...***
That was one of the squishier episodes! The schmolz was nauseating; "everybody lives!"
***Do any of you know someone who's never seen 1 episode of DW, but claims "it's stupid" and refuses to watch? Nothing angers me more, esp. when they watch crap like the "Walking Dead" & "Survivor," and think their opinion on movies and shows is as important as Roger Ebert's. It's trivial, but it really grinds my gears. I just want more friends to talk "Who" with, so I don't have to always come here.***
I feel your pain! Years ago I had a club that met and watched episodes; now there's no one around to talk "Doctor Who!" People have moved on I guess! It's an iconic show, been on forever, but no one really mentions it like they used to; even the Simpsons! I don't think it's "jumped the shark," but how good is it for the series to go on hiatus like this again? Hard to talk about the show if it's not even in production, much less no telecasts!
***When did DW start gaining popularity...- No, the Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee episodes were not popular in the U.S. before the Tom Baker episodes aired in the U.S.***
I agree about Pertwee and Troughton! I had seen the 2 DW/Dalek movies back in the 60's as a kid, heard about the show since the mid 70's, but didn't start watching here in the States until after college in '79 with Tom Baker! They went back to Pat & Jon, but they weren't as entertaining, had missing episodes, and were monotonous at times; esp. with the Master showing up all through that era where Pertwee was marooned on Earth!
***Do you consider the Cushing movies canon - I don't, but my son does. We argue about it occasionally.***
Back in those days and "now," movies being made from tv, comics, or animated series almost always go off "canon!" They can't help themselves! Lately I've seen some movie productions try to stick to some "scenerios" and at times are extentions of the tv series; The Avengers, Batman, Green Latern, and Spiderman!
***Which are your fave tv shows besides Doctor Who?
I'll either watch my collection or what's replayed on cable! These are still good:
- Blake's 7 - Earth: The Final Conflict - HBO's "OZ!" - Law & Order franchise - Leverage - Golden Girls - LA Law - Hillstreet Blues - NYPD Blue - The Practice - Boston Legal - Maude - Mission Impossible - Bewitched - All In The Family - The Avengers w/ Mrs. Peel - SCTV - Monty Python's Flying Circus - V - Batman
***When the 1st Doctor solves Rassilon's puzzle in "The Five Doctors" while the others stand around getting it wrong, that says the Doctor is not only not as smart as he used to be, but he's never as smart as he used to be, diminishing every portrayal that came after. ---
I dunno, I think it's more like the Doctor's mind works in different ways with each regeneration, I've read a few of the new adventures and, while I know they're not canon, the first one "TimeWyrm: Genesys" has the Doctor using the Tardis' telepathic circuits to reinstate the 3rd Doctor's mind b/c he had more expertise in a certain area than the 7th. Like I said, it's not canon, but yeah, that idea that his different incarnations would be better and worse at some things makes a kind of sense.***
The first Doctor just remembers puzzles and problems related to Gallifrey more; that's all! The others have just been away too long! Some of them haven't even returned before going into another regeneration! Hartnell had been on Galligrey for well over 400 years, grew up there with his mommy! From Troughton on, they barely stepped on the planet even when elected to the Presidency! Pertwee was in exile on Earth, Ec was too busy feeling guilty for what "The War Doctor" did, and the planet was no longer there for the rest; destroyed at first, then put in stasis!
I loved "The Five Doctors" and featured it on page of homage a few years ago! Any multi-Doctor episode is good in my book, but you had so many until of late when all 13 showed up briefly in "DOTD!" Even the 2 in "The Two Doctors" was great since it brought Jacqueline Pearce back into my life after "Blake's 7!"
***Hot ass in Who - Never got a good look at his derrière, but judging by his legs and general build, Jamie had a lovely bottom on him. ---
A gay guy wanting to initiate a conversation about arses, why not stick to the acting/storylines...what's w/ gays and their need to reduce everything to gutter level.***
Awwwww, jealous? Keeping with the topic, Turlough had his moment in "Planet Of Fire!" Those hot little shorts and that redhair; even if it was fake, got me to sit up a little straighter (so to speak)! I have such a think for young redheads! Such a shock later to find out he was really blonde, but they thought it would be "too much" since Davison is too! I never particularly cared for him before that; like Andric, just a spoiled, smart-allecky little punk!
***Creepiest stuff you ever saw on Dr who...***
An episode that transported me back to my childhood because it was so creepy had to be "The Talons of Weng-Chiang!" You can't beat a giant rat in the underbelly of an old city, a masked character from the future called Magnus Greel, some kind of pig part called "Peking Homunculus," and a puppet that walked around with a knife cutting folks; Mr. Sin! It was the best even though produced on a lean budget! Poor Leela in that cockney outfit was amusing; savage girl in "My Fair Lady!"
***Creepiest thing about that episode was having a white actor play Weng-Chiang. His stereotypical portrayal bordered on hilarious. Watched it recently and thought to myself...OMG - "head-shake"***
Nothing new in that! I watched plenty of "Charlie Chan" movies as a kid sunday mornings! I was horrified later to find out Warner Oland was Swedish! At least when they went to Sidney Toler, he looked more Asian only to discover he was of Scotish ancestry!
***Just wondering will Jenny return - I hope not. Btw, she didn't regenerate - she was brought back to life by The Source...in other words, if something fatal happened to her, that would most likely be the end of her. So, is she even alive, somewhere out there? But basically, there's never been a peep about her since that episode. No mentions, no references, either in the show or out of it. I suspect it was always intended to be an open-ended story, but I suppose, you never know...***
Sooner or later they'll have to bring her back; may take years! They never cease to amaze how they tie up loose end; even if it takes another Doctor to do it!
***Well, the option is always there for any showrunner who wants to, but I don't see why they have to revisit/resolve Jenny. ---
"Ribos" is one of my top 10 Baker stories. I don't understand how it could be anyone's least liked. Ian Cuthbertson alone is worth the price of admission, and Holmes' writing is phenomenal throughout.***
I didn't have a problem with "Ribos," but a sister episode of "The Keys To Time" was the worst for me; "The Power Of Kroll!" I guess you can call it a homage to bad 50's horror genre movies!
***The Tenth Planet - Some scientists say it should be classified as a planet. A visit to it by the new Doctor could make a good story.***
I always thought there was a possibility of another planet or 2 further away! They were lucky to catch Pluto in '30 and b/c of physical laws, reasoned it was out there somewhere! There are some that don't think it should be thought of as a planet, sorta like Australia here on Earth being a continent! It barely qualifies I guess!
***I fear the company from the Sunmakers probably got there ahead of us and ruined it like they did Pluto.***
"SunMakers" was probably one of the first episodes I saw of Doctor Who! It really stood out, paying homage to other sci-fi movies where "Big Brother" tries to not only control everything but makes money off of it as well!
***Leela's final serial is "The Invasion of Time", which is a sequel to "The Deadly Assassin". At the end Leela stays behind on Gallifrey to pursue a romantic relationship w/ a Chancellery Guard Commander named Andred. - An interesting footnote: when the episode was being written, it was w/ an eye toward bringing her back for the story, and she was willing. The producers, however, decided that they would only bring her back if she would commit to the entire season, and she already had other commitments so couldn't do it.***
In real life she just wanted "off" the show! It was a shotty exit! I miss her!
***I know it custom to have a Multi-Doctor story for the anniversary, but why? Why does it have to be an ann. story? "The Two Doctors" wasn't an ann. story, and although it wasn't great, it was fun seeing '6' and '2' react with one another. W/ the recent petition going to get '8' back in a spin-off, what about having him return in a Multi-Doctor story instead. "The Two Doctors" '2' so to speak; w/ '8' and '12?'
They could have the 8th return as a mini series btw the main series; i.e. they could do a series final where the Doctor encounters a Time Lord who's changing time (most likely the Monk), which results in the timeline changing to one in which the 8th Doctor didn't regenerate, (like the Dark Dimensions story idea, only not with the 4th). We could then have a 5/6 episode mini series in which '8' is trying to return the timeline back to normal, which when he succeeds results in him turning back into '12,' and back to business as usual. ---
Well I think Nick Briggs explained the thing about Multi-Doctor stories. They're a lot of fun for fans and are really enjoyable, but they are never "the best stories." Even if you enjoy them, expectations are always a let down in a way.***
Multi-Doctor episodes are always good to me; just to see them together is enough! The last one, "DOTD" with all '13' made me quite verklempt, even though it lasted only a minute! I even featured "The 5 Doctors" on my homage page a few years ago! Bringing someone in with the gravitas of John Hurt even made it more emotional to me since I first saw him years ago just before I started watching 'DW' in '79! He was the lead in "The Naked Civil Servant;" an auto-bio of Quentin Crisp on PBS!
***Just finished watching "The Two Doctors" for the first time. I have to say that Shockeye has to be the most ridiculous villain I've come across yet. A reviewer on another website has likened him to a pervy old man at a fancy dress party. - Shockeye is another one of those villains who's well acted, but poorly written.***
I still watch and covet any multi-Doctor episode! Love seeing Jacqueline Pearce who played Chessene; an old villain from "Blake's 7," Servalan! Can re-watch anytime, even though the storyline dragged with Shockeye and his relentless hunger cravings and pains!
***The way the character's played, he's more Frankie Howard than Hannibal Lecter - Not a big fan of him either. The only scene I enjoyed was the one with him & Troughton in the restaurant. It was so ridiculous that it was actually funny and well it had Troughton. ---
Shockeye is pretty broad, but considering that Colin Baker's tenure is pretty thin gruel overall, he and "The Two Doctors" constitute a highlight. Although his interaction with the 2nd Doctor is essentially non-essential indulgence, I do like how well John Stratton and Patrick Troughton worked together.***
OCO, Colin Baker all the way! During his transition, he was pretty much psychotic; like some kind of dark, murderous cannibal! lol! Other people's death didn't affect him at all! It was how he was written to be the most arrogant and pompous of all the Doctors! It's how it's perceived and has been for as long as I can remember; Colin agreeing for the most part!
***Would you go with the Doctor? If you and the Doctor crossed paths for whatever reason, would you go with him if he asked you to join? Keep in mind you'd be leaving behind your family, friends, and would be in danger like 85% of the time.
Personally, I would love to travel w/ the Doctor and go on the many great adventures he does, but if he asked me to go w/ him, I would tell him Im staying where I am. Yes, it would be incredible, but I wouldn't be able to leave the ones I love behind, having them worry about me, and then coming back knowing what kind of threats are out there in the universe. That would be too much for me too handle. Maybe, I would go on one adventure, but I would have to come home.***
Not a chance! Most of the people who became companions were running from something! I was very satisfied with my life, traveled a lot, and only longed to be back home after just a few days! I was to stay in Europe for 3 or 4 weeks, make the rounds, but ended up going back home after only 10 day; would have been sooner, but I was with a friend! He missed his family so it was an easy decision!
***Try as I might, I can only think of one. Just one.***
Rose was running from boredom, Leela had nothing going on and was homeless, others lost family members like Nyssa and Tegan, ...I could go on! Hard to believe a true fan of "WHO" has no clue what I was talking about! Maybe you're new; I go back to '79 with Tom Baker! Most companions left for more reasons than wanting the adventure! Shhesshhh!
***Rose didn't run b/c she was bored. She ran b/c her life wasn't going anywhere and had a dead end job. She then lost this job and had nothing. She was still living w/ her mum and had a useless BF. She went w/ The Doctor b/c she wanted to do something w/ her life. I don't know where you got "most companions were running away from something." Sure a fair amount were, but most of them? hah! I think you'll find a lot of them simply went just "to see the stars." Before you act arrogant and patronize people, have a little think. It doesn't matter how long you've been watching the show. That means squat.***
You're such an idiot; just agreed while at the same time insulting me! I know what I'm talking about! Get over yourself neophite! Since your comment was so ridiculous, you made the cut for my note-taking blog! Congrats!
***They should do away with the concept of a showrunner on New Who - I think the biggest problem is that it has one man calling all the shots either RTD or Moffat. I think 'Who' works better when there are at least 2 people who have equal say like Philip Hinchcliff and Bob Holmes or Barry Letts and Terrence Dicks. Everything didn't go the way either Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliff wanted. Terrence Dicks and Bob Holmes had just as much say as they did. Added to that the actor playing the Doctor had plenty of say too. It was a group effort which IMO is what a Tv show should always be; it's not like a novel that follows one man's vision. In new 'Who' even though they do still have a script editor and and a producer, the "showrunner" still gets sole control over the show IMO. I don't think anyone is ever allowed to disagree with him. Look at this extract from the writers tale RTD's own book and you will see what I mean.
“I do worry about being surrounded by yes-men. You’re right, it happens. ...I don’t think it’s happened to me yet. In the end, just as good writers are hard to find, so are good script editors, good producers and good execs. When you find good people like Julie and Phil, their sheer talent cancels out the risk of them yes-ing. I suppose the danger is not RTD And The Yes-Men, but a triumverate of people who are so similar that contrary opinions don’t get a look-in.”
I think we can take it from that that RTD was surrounded by nothing but yes men. Not only do I think that none of RTD's writers or producers dared to say anything to him, but I don't think his actors did either and that's the biggest problem w/ the 9th and 10th Doctors.
Chris Eccelston and David Tennant were obviously great actors in the role, but I don't think they were allowed to play it the way they wanted to. Eccelston and Tennant didn't pick their costumes, Tennant wasn't even allowed to use his own accent which he really wanted to; had to put on a silly mockney voice. Whilst his accent was in all fairness fine, it would have been better if he had used his natural Socttish. I know that Eccelston wasn't happy w/ how 'Who' was run, but that might not have been b/c of RTD.
IMO the actor should have a huge option over the character of the Doctor. Obviously the writer still writes the stories, and no actor should have complete control like Tom Baker did towards the end of his run. But still the actor I think should shape the Doctors core personality and the writer should follow his lead and hold him in check. The first 4 Doctors are in many ways are just exaggerated versions of the actors playing the role. Hartnell was pretty much the same as the 1st Doctor in real life. He was grumpy, arrogant, didn't suffer fools, but not in a malicious way; more just in an old fashioned, curmodegeony way. ...The 2nd Doctor also had a lot of elements of Troughtons personality too, like his cheeky sense of humor. The 3rd Doctor was just Jon Pertwee. The script editor even told him just to play "Jon" and like Pertwee the 3rd Doctor is a daredevil, loves cars, is quite condescending, but again not in a nasty way. The 4th Doctor meanwhile we all know was just Tom Baker. Hell if anything he was a toned down Tom Baker. -cont.***
***...However w/ the 9th and the 10th Doctors they are not Tennant and Eccelston; they are RTD. People even said that the 9th Doctor was just RTD in how he dressed and even how he said always said fantastic. That's not how it should go; the Doctor should be the actor playing him. I think this was also a problem w/ the 3 80's Doctors too. They are far too overwritten and the actors often had to do stupid things they didn't like like strangling Peri and none of them got to pick their costumes; all hated costumes. JNT IMO was as bad a showrunner in that he just did things his way, it wasn't team effort when he took over. He didn't listen to Eric Sawards advice on anything like hiring old writers apart from a few ocassions, he didn't listen to his actors playing the Doctor or the companions and as a result it screwed the show badly. The only time he did listen to people IMO was at the end of the McCoy era and that's why it's better as he, Cartmel, and McCoy are all contributing and a team effort again.
Moffat I don't think is as bad as RTD or JNT for doing it all himself. I think he does listen to people around him more ironically even though; RTD fans like to pretend Moffat is the arrogant one. Mofffat gave Matt Smith far greater freedom in the role. He let Smith pick out his own costume for instance; also 11 reflects Matt Smith's personality more than Moffat's. When you look at Smith in interviews, he's just like 11 in a lot of ways; has a low attention span, is always hyper, has no personal space issues and apparently always kisses everybody too, just like 11 does to Rory and Jenny LOL. ...At the same time Moffat didn't let Matt control the show like Tom did, he held him in check. However having said that I still think Moffat has too much control over the show and I don't think as evidenced by the constantly changing producers in the Moffat era that he has found a producer he really clicks w/ yet.
IMO after Moffat leaves, we should go back to a Hinchcliff/Holmes, Letts/Dicks, Lambert/Whitaker style set up, 2 people who run the show who are willing to listen to their actors, but who will hold them in check if they have too. Its not that Moffat and RTD are bad writers actually think they came up w/ a lot of good ideas, but no one would be good doing it on their own, though Moffat has been better than RTD. Tv and "Doctor Who" in particular has to be a team effort. ---
Mostly good points - I agree that having 2 people w/ a good ideas who are sharing the power is far less risky than one dictator (though as Moffat shows one showrunner can make a fun series, provided you find the right person for the job). But I must nitpick one bit - Troughton was not playing the Doctor as Troughton. He doesn't even look much like his Doctor in interviews, let alone behave like that way. In an interview his son said that maybe 10% of the 2nd Doctor was Pat. More so than anyone else he was acting the Doctor, only unlike Tennant he was really good at it (though my heart thawed a little toward Tennant himself when I read that he'd wanted to play the Doctor Scottish-like... since I first saw him in an interview, I have wondered why he didn't use his natural accent for the part?)***
Thanks for all this good debate and opinion on the history of "DW!" It makes interesting reading on my blogs! You guys made the cut! Thanks again!
***...I just reached the point where K-9 got a new voice. The new voice of K-9 was David Brierley, who was only there for 4 stories starting w/ 'The Creature From The Pit' until the unfinished 'Shada.' John Leeson would return the following season in 'The Leisure Hive.' Apparently John Leeson was tired of doing it, but was convinced to return by JNT knowing that the character would be written out for good later in 'Warriors' Gate.' Brierley tried, but it just didn't work. Would have been interesting if Leeson had been hired to re-voice K-9 for the DVD releases of those stories, like the Daleks had been in 'Day Of The Daleks,' but wasn't likely considered worth the expense.***
...and I think he did some work for my other fave sci-fi program, "Blake's 7"
***...Who wants it to be Davros?...***
Davros without a doubt is the most insane; even more so than The Master! The Doctor gave him a hypothetical in "Genesis...;" what if he created a virus that would annihilate everything? Davros was intrigued and loved the thought of breaking the vial and having his virus "reigning supreme!" No one deserved to be unplugged more than him; sheeshhh!
***Mary Tamm or Lalla Ward? - In addition to being possibly the most beautiful companion they ever had on the show, Mary did all the difficult character development work and then got shoved aside just b/c Tom got the hots for a guest star. Mary deserved better.***
I didn't think Mary was shoved aside as much as she left due to her character being made more into an assistant to the Doctor! She started out more accomplished than he was, but was made to seem like a subordinate in the end! I thought that's what I heard and read years ago! Ward and Baker getting together later had little to do with it I thought! That only lasted 2 years and it was all on her, not Baker! He was a lot older and very demanding so it would never work!
***Partly agree. Tamm's Romana was certainly more academically accomplished, as "The Ribos Operation" makes clear. But she was apprenticed to the Doctor to pick up real-world (real-galaxy? real-universe?) experience, as "Ribos" also makes clear: When she learns that Unstoffe is a thief, she exclaims, "But--he has such an honest face!" To which the Doctor replies, "Well, he wouldn't be much of a thief if he had a dishonest face!" ---
Mary Tamm pioneered the role and gave it the glamour as her Romana served her apprenticeship w/ the Doctor. I don't agree that "there wasn't very far left for Romana's character to go." Lalla Ward completed the job Tamm started in her 2 seasons as Romana Mk. II, and when she left in "Warriors' Gate" she was truly a full-fledged Time Lord, seasoned and savvy, while I don't feel that Tamm's Romana had got to that state at the end of "The Armageddon Factor."
While Tamm may have got better stories, that is still a smaller sample size than Ward's, and Tamm did have the Season 16 story arc of the "Key To Time" as a thematic thread to buttress the storytelling. Some of Ward's Season 17 stories are pretty dire, but in some of those she is the best thing happening on the screen (e.g., "The Horns of Nimon"). And as for the "know-it-all" aspect of Ward's Romana, I don't know if that is personal preference/bias on your part, but Tamm's Romana began as a haughty whippersnapper w/ lots of book smarts, but little of the street savvy that the Doctor had, so for me I see Ward's Romana's know-it-all aspect as a continuation of same from Tamm's portrayal.***
***Agreed about Mary Tamm over Lalla Ward. In addition to being possibly the most beautiful companion they ever had on the show, Mary did all the difficult character development work and then got shoved aside just because Tom got the hots for a guest star. Mary deserved better.***
I didn't think Mary was shoved aside as much as she left due to her character being made more into an assistant to the Doctor! She started out more accomplished than he was, but was made to seem like a subordinate in the end!...
***Another reason Mary left was that she was preggo at the time of rehearsals for Season 17. Met her once. A lovely, lovely woman. ---
"The Brain of Morbius;" why not just put his brain in the Doctor's head! - After having spent all that time making a body out of random body parts, Solon didn't want all his hard work to go to waste.***
That would have been the back up plan, but the spare part body was used b/c of Morbius' impatience to move about IIRC! Been years since I've seen that episode! It was also in the Doctor's mind that The Time Lords had diverted his TARDIS to deal with the situation like with Davros in "Genesis" and "Destiny Of The Daleks!"
***I'm pretty sure The Doctor was only on Trenzalore for 300 years, not 1000? I know that when he had 'time off' from the Ponds, he would gallop around the universe himself for a while - Particularly when he was trying to avoid going to his death, he said he'd been traveling for about 100 years, so it all adds up.
And I personally don't get as wound up about his age as some people do - It's like others have said, every Doctor has given a different #, and he himself has admitted that he's not even sure how old he really is, so why should it matter to us when it doesn't matter to him? ---
It was indeed 900 years on Trenzalore. 300 was the time that he spent there after he sent Clara away the 1st time, but then he spent another 600 years after that. The # was confirmed by the tie-in novel "Tales of Trenzalore," and has now been compounded by Twelve referring to himself as "over 2000 years old." When he was avoiding his death at Lake Silencio, he allegedly did so for about 200 years, and then there was another ~100 spent in btw Lake Silencio and "A Town Called Mercy."
For the sake of discussion/reference, here is the Doctor's life in the revival series:
800 years old - War, The Day of the Doctor (implied; War deduced that Eleven was 400 years older than him based on Eleven's estimated age being 1200. It should also be noted that this was War at the end of his life, after fighting in a centuries-long Time War.)
900 years old - Nine, Aliens of London 900 years of "phone box travel" - Nine, The Empty Child 903 years old - Ten, Voyage of the Damned 904 years old - Ten, The Day of the Doctor 906 years old - Ten, The End of Time 907 years old - Eleven, Flesh and Stone 908 years old - Eleven, in between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut (Amy says that he was 908 when last she and Rory saw him.)
909 years old - Eleven, The Impossible Astronaut 1103 years old - Eleven, The Wedding of River Song 1200 years old - Eleven, A Town Called Mercy 1500 years old - Eleven, The Time of the Doctor (after Clara returns for the 1st time) 2100 years old - Eleven, The Time of the Doctor (after Clara returns for the 2nd time)
Interestingly, the TARDIS herself, in the body of Idris, said "700 years, finally he asks [if she has a name]" in "The Doctor's Wife." Ignoring the War Doctor, this would mean that the then-909-year-old Doctor was around 200 years old when he 1st stole the TARDIS.
The Tenth Doctor also claimed that he visited the Medusa Cascade when he was "just a kid, 90 years old."***
***...Have to say, immensely entertaining even with the ridiculousness of some of the special effects (the pathetic rat in "Talons of Weng-Chiang" being the foremost sin, the only thing spoiling a terrific story). We've reached "City of Death" which I remember as a kid, scared witless when Scargoth revealed his true face (The Doctor seems remarkably glib about wiping his race out, much more so than he is in "Genesis of the Daleks?)."...***
You mentioned some of the best episodes of that era! Loved all of those; esp. "T.O.W.C., G.O.T.D., & C.O.D.!" So many movies have dealt with that storyline of duplicate Mona Lisa's since it was stolen and recovered!
***Loved "Day Of The Daleks" and enjoying the "Sea Devils" so far. Starting to really like Pertwee now too...there is an awful lot of the Master though. - Yea they overdid The Master-although Delgado was bloody excellent. Shame he died; there was to be a final battle.***
Even though Delgado was great in the part of the Master, it got tedious seeing him behind every plot on Earth for that season! Too bizarre!
***I'm looking for some recommendations to help get me started:
Hartnell: The Daleks, The Aztecs, The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Romans, The Time Meddler
Troughton: The Tomb Of The Cybermen, The Ice Warriors, The Web Of Fear, The Invasion, The Seeds of Death, The War Games
Pertwee: Spearhead From Space, Doctor Who & The Silurians, The Ambassadors Of Death, Inferno, Terror of the Autons, The Daemons, Day Of The Daleks, The Sea Devils, The Green Death, The Time Warrior, Invasion of the Dinosuars
Baker: Genesis of the Daleks, Pyramids Of Mars, The Brain of Morbius, The Hand of Fear, The Deadly Assasssin, The Face Of Evil, The Talons Of Weng-Chiang, Horror Of Fang Rock, Image Of The Fendahl, The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Androids Of Tara, City Of Death, The Keeper Of Traken, Logopolis
Davison: Castrovalva, Kinda, Earthshock, Snakedance, Mawdryn Undead, Terminus, Enlightenment, The Five Doctors, Resurrection Of The Daleks, Planet of Fire, The Caves of Androzani
Baker: Whispers Of Terror, The Holy Terror, The Marian Conspiracy, Doctor Who & The Pirates, Jubilee, The One Doctor
McCoy: Dragonfire, Remembrance Of The Daleks, Battlefield, The Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, Survival
***Top 10 people responsible for the greatness of Classic Who:
Verity Lambert David Whitaker William Hartnell Patrick Troughton Barry Letts Terrance Dicks Jon Pertwee Tom Baker Philip Hinchcliffe Robert Holmes - - - No Terry Nation? Dr Who might never have survived w/o the Daleks. ---
Smith's cameo was really appreciated by me. Unlike Tennant and Russell, who had 'Ten' say thing like "I'll die and some new guy goes sauntering away" and "I don't wanna go", making many fans hate Moffat and Smith before they'd even started, Smith and Moffat had the Eleventh Doctor openly welcome 'Twelve.' To me, the scene wasn't just speaking to Clara, but to the audience. "It's alright. Help him become him. He's still me. He's the Doctor". That along with Capaldi saying that he remembers saying that made me realise that they are the same person, not that 'Eleven' had died and 'Twelve' is "sauntering away." I think it was needed for this darker Doctor and is possibly my favourite thing about the episode. ---
Exactly! I know a lot of people were very weepy about Tennant's departure not j/b he was beloved by the fans, but b/c he actually said 'I don't want to go.' I actually grew to dislike Tennant's Doctor (even more) b/c of that line, b/c I didn't see the logic at all behind it (besides perhaps making the audience hate whoever succeeds him) - I mean, really, he knew he was coming back, for Christ's sake!***
Was this just a retread of "Girl In The Fireplace!" Sister ship of "MDP?"
***Explain....I do not understand your question; what do you mean "Retread" on GiTP? I have seen both 'Deep Breath' and 'GiTF'***
...and you call yourself a "DW" fan? I think not! Didn't you hear Capaldi mention records stating that the ship (Marie Antoinette) this robot was rebuilding was a sister ship to Madame De Pompadour? They both used human parts to repair it! Maybe I'm just nuts!
***Yes I heard it; I was thinking that it was similar to them right after the "leader" robot killed the man for his eyes. And there was other ships in the cabinet. 'DB' clockwork robots are more like Patchwork clockwork then the original clockwork. Instead of a retread, it's more like a Nod or so far from original selves/program that If they happen to find MDP starship would most likely be EXTERMINATED, DELETED, or cannibalized similer to "VotD Daleks."***
Capaldi's "silly" act is getting very tiresome! He just took the role and I'm already sick of him! I don't feel good about that!
***I hated Smith and like Capaldi . I loved Jon Pertwee and hated Sylvester McCoy . People should realise that's the nature of the programme - you find yourself loving one actor in the role and hating another . That's why the show has been running on and off since 1963.***
I've been fortunate that it has happened only on rare occasions, animus being evident w/ a new Doctor! Colin B. unfortunately was just saddled w/ bad material, McCoy w/ tacky scenery and sets, and Tennant trying to be a little too human IMO! He had his bad side, but overcompensated w/ the Rose arc! Matt was even worse w/ Clara; "my Clara!" OCO!...And so it continues!
***I feel like I'll grow to like Capaldi more. As it is now he's not doing a bad job, but I feel like he's still trying to figure out what Doctor he wants to play/growing into the role.***
***...I have seen people complain that Moffat focuses too much on the companions, but I have also seen people complain that he doesn't focus on the companions enough... when really, I think he strikes a good balance between the two...***
Well Clara is running the show; in sync w/ the TARDIS and moving it about w/ her mind! lol! She's taken over! He's scatter-brained while she's the rational person!
***I liked the Cyberman/Dalek clash, but agree w/ Mindbait on the mingling of monsters and their overuse. One of the reasons "Star Trek: Voyager" turned to shit was they seemed to run into and easily beat The Borg every week.***
They went from an unknown enemy where you only saw their shadow to the Daleks being behind every other storyline/plot recently! lol! "Asylum" and "Victory" stunk! "Genesis" endures after all these decades! Such a cast of characters including Nyder who was a terrible liar and coward! The Doctor barely gave him a dirty look and he opened Davros' safe to get that "travel ring!" Not a fan of McCoy, but "Remembrance" was good! Need to pull out "Revelations" and "Resurrection" to remind me of their plots! Classic Who use was always more judicious and had more impact!
***"The Five Doctors" episode; the thing w/ "The Three Doctors" is that it's got a weak ending. ...and i think that if William Hartnell wasn't so ill during that time he would have had more to do than he did. and it would have helped the serial of course. As for "The Five Doctors," I love it. - I think a rush can often bring out the best in writers/production teams/actors.***
The "3 & 5" Doctors were the best until they figured out a way to get "13" in there! lol! Besides a rushed script, Hartnell was on his last legs and producers came up w/ using him on screen w/o having to run about!
***Yes, Pertwee's first 2 seasons were almost entirely Earthbound except for "Colony in Space," in which the Time Lords granted him special dispensation to help them. That 2nd season did see the Master integral to every story. (Yes, nit-pickers, Three does leave Earth in "The Ambassadors of Death," but it is not in the TARDIS. And technically there is an alternate Earth in "Inferno," in which at least the TARDIS console is involved.) After that season, there were more reasons, excuses, etc., proffered to enable the Doctor to leave Earth, and by the end of "The Three Doctors" he is granted his full walking papers.
The 4th Doctor did not have such restrictions (although the Brig might have wished it so), but it wasn't until I just thought about his "The Seeds of Doom" that it reminded me of a Pertwee kind of story.***
Nice synopsis of Pertwee's early years! The console moving him some place reminded me of "The Doctor's Wife!" The console room is always centrally located, but to be exposed like that is so HG Wells, "The Time Machine!"
***No, 'Dalek' is not the best Dalek story, really the top rundown should have contained "Genesis, Power, Remembrance, The Daleks" (being the original and all) and maybe "Master Plan." From the new show I would have gone w/ "Asylum Of The Daleks."
As for 'Dalek,' it has some cool action scenes, but this whole "you'd make a good Dalek" and oh, "is the Doctor as bad as the enemies he fights" thing is just so worn out IMO. ...the Dalek telling the Doctor that he'd make a good Dalek and him getting all angsty and filled w/ inner turmoil. I mean 'Genesis' kind of covers that succinctly w/o labouring over it. ---
I havent seen "Dr Who And The Daleks" (and I'm sure there is another film), but want to know why Peter Cushing isn't counted as one of the Doctors? Surely if Paul McGann is (he only had one film) then Cushing s/b too.***
You're kidding right? lol! It wasn't the same "Doctor Who" from the series! In the 2 movies produced, he was totally human, that really was his granddaughter, and he had no idea what Daleks were before his first encounter in the movie! Of course he defeated them w/ their own logic and apprehension of the magnetic poles on Earth! The movies were the my 1st exposure to the Tardis and Doctor Who! I didn't start watching the series until my college room mate talked about it in '77! Tom Baker was my first real Doctor with Leila!
***What makes you think Susan wasn't his granddaughter on the show?***
What can I say? It's just been understood it was an honorary acknowledgement of kinship! When he left Gallifrey in his "borrowed" TARDIS, he was alone! She wasn't a Time Lord, so I doubt they just ran into one another by chance on some odd planet! I just took her as someone he adopted from Earth like Amy or Donna; a girl inquisitive who gave him some purpose!
***No he wasn't. Watch the beginning of "The Name of the Doctor" and you'll see him guide Susan in. = ...It's funny that you say that considering that the creators of the show back in the '60s envisioned the companions as the main characters, w/ the Doctor being an eccentric older man on the side. ---
Meh, like I've said before, as far as I know, Susan being the Doctor's granddaughter was never really debated during the run of the old show. it's only w/ the new show having various twists and turns and shocks and whatnot that people now go "oh well, maybe she WASN'T his granddaughter."***
I started w/ Baker and it was no doubt that by the time he acquired the role, The Doctor was the savior of the whole thing! Creatures, Aliens, and or Planets would trust his judgment, overruling centuries of belief! His companions couldn't puff up his ego enough, actually seeing him act out, have a tantrum, or just plain sulk! Baker and Davison were good for that back in Classic Who!
***The progression of The Doctor's age in the modern series has been as such:
1st Doctor: ~209 years old* (The Name of the Doctor; established that he was this old at that time in The Doctor's Wife)
War Doctor: 800 years old (The Day of the Doctor) 9th Doctor: 900 years old** (Aliens of London) 10th Doctor: 903 years old (Voyage of the Damned) 10th Doctor: 904 years old (The Day of the Doctor) 10th Doctor: 906 years old (The End of Time) 11th Doctor: 907 years old (Flesh and Stone) 11th Doctor: 908 years old (after "A Christmas Carol;" mentioned in "The Impossible Astronaut" by Amy)
11th Doctor: 909 years old (The Impossible Astronaut) 11th Doctor: 1103 years old (Closing Time; established that he would be this age by then in The Impossible Astronaut)
11nth Doctor: 1200 years old (A Town Called Mercy) 11th Doctor: 1500 years old (after Clara's 1st return to Trenzalore in The Time of the Doctor)
12th Doctor: 2000 years old (after Clara's 2nd return to Trenzalore in The Time of the Doctor, plus Deep Breath)
* The TARDIS, in the body of Idris, said that she and the Doctor ran away together 700 years ago
** Although the 9th Doctor also claimed to experienced "900 years of phone box travel" in "The Empty Child," which would be impossible if he were also 900 years old.
Although when asked about his age in "The Day of the Doctor," the 11th Doctor also says, "Twelve hundred and something, I think, unless I'm lying. I can't remember if I'm lying about my age, that's how old I am."
Which is probably the best answer, considering that as the 7th Doctor, he was indisputably proven to be 953 in "Time and the Rani," although the ~200 figure for the 1st Doctor at the time of him stealing the TARDIS is more or less consistent w/ the classic series. However, the TARDIS's statement in The "Doctor's Wife" would then suggest that the 8th, War, 9th, and 10th Doctors' lives, as well as the first 2 years of the 11th Doctor's life, only encompassed a period of about 50 years, so chalk that up to either a retcon or Idris being batty again, esp. since it was also indisputably proven that about 400 years passed in btw the "800"-year-old War Doctor in his dying days and the "1200"-year-old 11th Doctor. ---
..."I'm Clara Jem Jogg Wollomeer-Day Slitheen, and I was born to save the Doctor!"***
I like it! These story arcs Moffet's been creating, which are explained after YEARS of baking in the oven are amazing! Being a classic Whovian, nothing but the Doctor's multiple encounters w/ Cybermen, Daleks, and Davros in particular comes close! The show was more "stand-alone" back then! You could jumble the order and it would still work! You can't do that w/ the new series! You have to really pay attention; producers really carry over very minute events and bring them "forward" a lot! The companions of the past didn't take over like Rose, Amy, River, & Clara! They try to make it more special w/ Sarah Jane coming back a couple times, but it was happenstance more than prophetic or destiny-ridden!
***If Torchwood never gets revived, what are anyone's potential thoughts of Gwen moving over into the mainstream Whoniverse? I mean, I've only watched through to season 3, but the entire, original Torchwood team dies except for her and Jack, right?***
I just never jumped on "Torchwood!" There were some interesting stories, but something kept me from adding it to the "must see" list of fandom! It even had that added incentive w/ Jack being "bi" and having a past lover terrorize his team! I ordered John's book, but I still haven't read it! It couldn't hurt to incorporate Torchwood if they like; wouldn't offend me, but Gwen is married! They might have to kill him off to cut that tie!
Since people have been complaining that Moffat's arcs are way too confusing and convoluted, I have decided to thoroughly explain what they are all about. So here it is. An explanation of all his arcs and plot holes. Basically, Moffat's arcs are all about a mix of comprehensive ontological paradoxes (or time loops) which exist in a symbiosis.
The series 5 arc:
Anyway, most people seem to think that the cracks in time came before the explosion of the TARDIS. Well that's wrong. It's actually the other way around. In "City of Death," Count Scarlioni's time experiments were very unorthodox and dangerous. They ended up scaring time around Paris, resulting in so called "cracks in time." The cracks in that episode were basically the consequence of his experiments. They were a scar of the terrible things Scaroth/Scarlioni did on time. And coincidentally, in The 'Time of the Doctor,' he actually calls the cracks "the scar tissue of the universe."
Basically, the Doctor did a surgery on time and space. While he did save the universe, he left a surgical wound on the universe - the cracks in time. The cracks didn't close b/c the Doctor rebooted the universe. They closed b/c he walked through them. This was actually established in "The Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone."
So, what really happened in "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang?" A time loop; really? The original timeline got altered and changed into the other timeline. However, some traces and elements of it were still present, and those led into the universe being rewritten back into its original timeline. But some traces of the 2nd timeline were present, and those led in the universe being altered.
1. The cracks in time appear 2. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica 3. The Silence blows up the TARDIS 4. The universe starts to disappear and gets rewritten 5. The Doctor uses the Pandorica to reboot the universe 6. The cracks in time appear 7. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica etc.
And it goes on and on for eternity. It's a loop.
There being a time loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5, the Doctor's appearance in the Angels 2-parter etc.
Of course, people will now ask about Amy's parents. Well, Amy's parents didn't retroactively come to be in her life. They simply came back to existence during her wedding day. The truth is, when people got erased, it wasn't like they never came to be. They only got erased from existence. They did exist, no-one remembered them. That is like never existing - just not literally. Same for Rory.
The series 6 arc
In Moffat's era, a fixed point in time is a part of a time loop. Think about it - if I were to kill a man who just traveled to the past to give his younger self the schematics to his time machine wouldn't end up creating a paradox? If he didn't give himself the schematics, then how did he get in the past? A part if a time loop is a circular paradox.
To create a fixed point in time, the Silence imposed a lot of time loops around their plot. The first is how they thought everything out. They learned of everything through a legend, a legend about the Doctor's death which surfaced b/c of them doing it in the first place. A time loop. The creation of the suit is one too. The Silent's influenced all of history to make them craft the space-suit the way they wanted it, but they also created human history - their history. After all, the Silence is run by people.
River Song, as Melody, hooked up her own parents, thus assuring her own existence. River also saw her elder self watching over her, thus making her "killing" the Doctor a fixed point in time.
Basically, every step of the Silent's plot is a part of a time loop, and in so, a fixed point in time. They wanted to make the Doctor's death inescapable - they failed though.***
Since people have been complaining that Moffat's arcs are way too confusing and convoluted, I have decided to thoroughly explain what they are all about. So here it is. An explanation of all his arcs and plot holes. Basically, Moffat's arcs are all about a mix of comprehensive ontological paradoxes (or time loops) which exist in a symbiosis.
The series 5 arc:
This is actually Moffat's most complicated arc actually. Most people have misinterpreted it. They seem to think that the cracks in time came before the explosion of the TARDIS. Well that's wrong. It's actually the other way around. In "City of Death," Count Scarlioni's time experiments were very unorthodox and dangerous. They ended up scaring time around Paris, resulting in so called "cracks in time." The cracks in that episode were basically the consequence of his experiments. They were a scar of the terrible things Scaroth/Scarlioni did on time. And coincidentally, in The "Time of the Doctor," he actually calls the cracks "the scar tissue of the universe."
Basically, the Doctor did a surgery on time and space. While he did save the universe, he left a surgical wound on the universe - the cracks in time. The cracks didn't close b/c the Doctor rebooted the universe/ They closed b/c he walked through them. This was actually established in "The Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone."
So, what really happened in "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang?" A time loop; really? The original timeline got altered and changed into the other timeline. However, some traces and elements of it were still present, and those led into the universe being rewritten back into its original timeline. But some traces of the 2nd timeline were present, and those led in the universe being altered.
1. The cracks in time appear 2. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica 3. The Silence blows up the TARDIS 4. The universe starts to disappear and gets rewritten 5. The Doctor uses the Pandorica to reboot the universe 6. The cracks in time appear 7. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica etc.
And it goes on and on for eternity. It's a loop.
There's many evidence to this. There being a time loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5. The Doctor's appearance in the 'Angels' 2-parter etc.
Of course, people will now ask about Amy's parents. Well, Amy's parents didn't retroactively come to be in her life. They simply came back to existence during her wedding day. The truth is, when people got erased, it wasn't like they never came to be. They only got erased from existence. They did exist; no-one remembered them. That is like never existing - just not literally. Same for Rory.
The series 6 arc
In Moffat's era, a fixed point in time is a part of a time loop. Think about it - if I were to kill a man who just traveled to the past to give his younger self the schematics to his time machine, wouldn't end up creating a paradox? If he didn't give himself the schematics, then how did he get in the past? A part if a time loop is a circular paradox.
To create a fixed point in time, the Silence imposed a lot of time loops around their plot. The1st is how they thought everything out. They learned of everything through a legend, a legend about the Doctor's death which surfaced b/c of them doing it in the first place. A time loop. The creation of the suit is one too. The Silent's influenced all of history to make them craft the space-suit the way they wanted it, but they also created human history - their history. After all, the Silence is run by people.
River Song, as Melody, hooked up her own parents, thus assuring her own existence. River also saw her elder self watching over her, thus making her "killing" the Doctor a fixed point in time.*** (cont.,)
(cont.) - ***Basically, every step of the Silence's plot is a part of a time loop, and in so, a fixed point in time. They wanted to make the Doctor's death inescapable - they failed though.
The series 7 arc:
It is quite simple really - the Doctor picked up Clara as his companion to discover why she was in several places in time and space all at once. B/c she started traveling w/ him, she threw herself in his timeline, thus ending up in those several places at once, prompting him to pick her up. A perfect time loop.
"The Day of the Doctor" time loop:
The time loop in "TDOTD" is quite simple as well. The Doctor saved Gallifrey and set-up the situation as if it was destroyed. The Doctor thought he had destroyed Gallifrey. He went through his brooding stage and eventually got over it. However, it was in this brooding stage that he found an answer of how to save Gallifrey, employing it in "The Day of the Doctor," making yet another time loop.
The loop btw "The Day of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor"
The salvation of Gallifrey led to the War on Trenzalore. The War on Trenzalore, of course, ended with the Doctor regenerating into his 13th incarnation. Since the Twelfth Doctor helped save Gallifrey, he assured his own existence, making it a time loop.
This and the previous arc prove that the Doctor always saved Gallifrey and that time wasn't changed.
The loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5:
The Silence ended up creating the arcs it wanted to erase from existence. Ironic, isn't it? And no we come onto - PLOT HOLES! DUN-DUN-DUN!
Plot holes:
Actually, it should be singular here, b/c there is one plot hole in Moffat's era. A big one indeed.
It's about "The Name of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor." Everything in Moffat's era always happened, so how do the two mesh together? After all, the "time got rewritten" excuse doesn't work. What's worse, since the 50th and the Christmas special are in a time loop, then there can only be ONE end to the War on Trenzalore. Not to mention that Clara was there b/c of the events of "The Name of the Doctor," and her role was quite important - in other words, "The Time of the Doctor" happened b/c of "TNOTD."
It's like saying that 2 + 2 = 4 b/c 2 + 2 = 5 and vice versa! It makes no sense.
However, Moffat's arcs are still on-going, so maybe we will get an explanation in the future. And I think we will. After all, Missy has gone to great lengths (or whoever it is behind it) to keep Clara and the Doctor together by giving her his phone #, so it could be that she created a parallel reality where this happened and sustained it, led the GI to it so that she could get the 2 together. Not to mention that River was too eager herself to get them there, so it makes sense that there is more to it. We'll see! ---
Thanks for the explanation. It was well written and probably took some time to write. :)
The main issue I have w/ all of this, is that almost all of Moffat's arcs revolve around time loops and creation of a paradox. Going back to "Father's Day" in series 1, this kind of paradox cased the entire planet/universe/time itself to be "eaten" - can't remember the explanation. I fail to see how that event is different then the stories in Moffat's era.
I can appreciate that Moffat tried to make a complex story that will be told throughout his era, but it seems like inventing the canon and continuity based on a whim of the story teller. This can be fine as long as you try to give an explanation that makes sense, but most of the time, the majority of explanations are given on message boards like this. When only a few people understand the plot twist, there is a problem w/ the plot as a whole.***
***There are a lot of really good 2nd Doctor stories w/ Jamie:
* The Moonbase (so you can meet Polly and Ben) * Tomb of the Cybermen * Enemy of the World (recently recovered) * Web of Fear (recently recovered) * The Mind Robber * The Invasion * War Games ***
"Tomb" was the "flashback" episode for Troughton last year during the 50th anniversary! Collected it on VHS tape like always!
***Why not try out 'Enemy of the World' and 'Web of Fear?' They had been lost since the 1960's. Watch them for their historical significance if nothing else. "Enemy of the World: has Troughton in a double role and you can truly see what a great character actor he was.***
I'm as nostalgic as anyone, still pushing Classic Who for the most part, but I never suggest to or take recommendation for anything before Pertwee! The older I get the more I cringe w/ the bad plots, tacky set, and most of all the "overacting!" I love seeing Hartnell, Hurndall, Troughton, and Pertwee in the multi-Doctor anniversary episodes and that tends to suffice when it comes to going truly 'back in time!'
***...The acting really did not change all that much from the 1960's to the 1970's. In fact it didn't change at all. The only signifigant change from the 1960's to the 1970's is we are now in color & the Doctor is Earth bound. I'm sorry you are so anti-B/W era, but you are missing out on some great stories. Personally I think 1980's Who looks a lot more tacky and cheap than anything in the 1960's. It's your prerogative not to try it, but you have a very misinformed opinion about 1960's Who. Although I'm someone who is fascinated by film history and even love Silent films, so perhaps I am biased.***
Destroyed! I had a real problem w/ Pertwee and McCoy; The Doctor stranded on Earth w/ the Master behind plot after plot, then the bad scenery and bad acting in the 80's later!
***I just think you should give Troughton & Hartnell a chance. I admit my perspective is different than yours b/c as I pointed out, I like films much older than the 1960's, but I don't see any more tackiness than the other eras and I don't see "bad acting." In fact I would argue Troughton might have been the best actor to play the role. But don't have a closed mind give them a try. I truly do think there are some truly memorable stories for both the 1st and 2nd Doctor. ---
Is Shada A Story?***
Until it's telecast on int'l tv, I'm afraid not! If done in animation, books, radio telecasts, or online production, it just won't do it for me! lol!
***See, I get that with things like novels, CD-only releases, and other things where you are forced to buy external media (BBC charter and all that), and to a degree I even get drawing the line at radio, since it's quite a different storytelling medium, ...all fans have free access to it? And webcasts certainly fit that just fine.
That said, I do understand your point of view- and I know those animated webcasts are an esp. odd case, b/c out of the 4 they did, 'Shada' seems to be intended as an official, canonical continuation of the series, while 'Real Time' is ambiguous as far as canon is concerned. 'Death Comes to Time' is explicitly not canon (or it's an alternate timeline), and 'Scream of the Shalka' was absolutely intended as a canonical continuation, but it was then retconned to be not so.***
***At the beginning, The Reboot was a bit rough as this was the first real exposure I'd had to English accents. There are some colloquialisms that I still don't understand fully, but I can get the gist of it and I try and educate myself as to any slang I don't really understand.***
I guess I had a leg up on most Americans since I loved British comedies going back to the late 70's; "Monty Python, Dave Allen, The Two Ronnies, Agony, Are you being served?, Keeping Up Appearances," and others! Being a bit of a snob, I also did a bit of "Upstairs Downstairs," "I Claudius," and "Brideshead Revisited!" I wrote a term paper on Dickens since I'd read so many of his novels as a child! It's like a foreign language, but I've managed over the years! Wouldn't mind living there one of these days!
***New companion is inevitable - Not really a spoiler since The Doctor changes companions more than he changes face. I really like Clara w/ this Doctor. They have great chemistry, but eventually someone else will take on.***
This was the same exit Sarah Jane had w/ TOM Baker! She was upset, PO'd about something, and she packed and left in a huff! It was the episode just before "Assassin" IIRC! "I can't take Sarah Jane to Gallifrey!"
***Sarah decided to leave at the end of "The Hand of Fear," but changed her mind when the Doctor announced he was dumping her.***
I just thought it was similar; relax! lol! Of course Clara will change her mind and probably "give him a call if he doesn't come back soon!" ---
***"Kill The Moon" - Mexicans on the Moon?***
I'll take that comment over this little girl! She was disappointed when the Doctor didn't say she was special, but what does she do? All the things that makes a brat "a brat:"
- "Doctor, I'm bored!" - (Throwing up) - Ready to go home when things got a little tough!
What a hateful little girl! She is far from special! Please dump her ASAP! I don't even want to know her name!
***You make our sound as if she stubbed her toe or something, instead of ALMOST BEING EATEN BY A GIANT ALIEN SPIDER. Seriously, do you have any sense of empathy at all?***
OMG, take a "chill pill" people! lol! It's a freakin' tv show w. a character I could do w/o! Get a grip! lol!
***Would you have turned your lights off? - ...Every day I see or hear about death and destruction, all of which I can do nothing about, and if there was a chance that maybe I could stop it, just one time, I think I would have left my lights on.***
The way I see it, we have no right to make such a decision! It's only a matter of time before the planet goes anyway; pollution, dumping of radioactive materials in the sea, refusing to get off carbon fuels! It may be too late to save us anyway; that's the way I see it! Let that egg hatch; regardless!
***I loved "Robots of Death." I loved the scenery and costuming. I found the mystery excellent. The Doctor and Leela had very strong chemistry (although I thought it was better in "Fang Rock"). Either way, when it comes to Leela episodes, it really is splitting hairs. From "The Face of Evil" til "The Invasion of Time," they were all pretty decent, w/ 'Robots/Talons/Horror' being one of the greatest runs of stories in all of Who. "Robots of Death also received higher ratings ...up to that point, and held the spot until "Destiny Of The Daleks."***
After all these years, "Robots Of Death" is still quite memorable and I loved it! It's one of those episodes that had it all; futuristic mining, a murder whodunit, and another mercenary group willing to turn their lives over to The Doctor! It was so "Agatha Christie!" lol! It was quite touching having a robot give of itself as a sentient being near the end! "There are 'Dums, Voc, Supervoc, ...then there's you!" It might be categorized as a Doctor companion!
***I find that Davros' understanding of evolution to be worse than that of a Kansas Preacher. So his choosing to create monsters was purely a sign of his megalomania disguised as "science." We are to assume that after The Doctor left at the end of "Genesis," the Daleks proceeded to wipe out every living Kaled in the Kaled city's bunker and then continued Davros' work to breed "pure" Daleks using the stock that Davros created.***
Another "Hitler" figure where everyone else is only following orders! Neither side looked morally superior! The Thals used that solvent given by Davros on the Kaled dome before an offer of peace was initiated!
***The show goes to the Victorian era a lot.
Victorian era: "The Evil of the Daleks" "The Talons of Weng-Chiang"* "Ghost Light" "The Unquiet Dead" "Tooth and Claw" "The Next Doctor"* "The Snowmen"* "The Crimson Horror" "Deep Breath"*
The following feature scenes in Victorian era, but most of the action is set somewhere else. "Timelash" Vastra and Jenny's intro in "A Good Man Goes to War" "The Name of the Doctor"*
These stories take place between 1837 and 1901, but by location aren't counted as Victorian era stories. The Mary Celeste sequence in "The Chase" "The Gunfighters" "Vincent and the Doctor" "A Town Called Mercy"
*Set in London. Now one from the revival: Most of the stories under RTD were set on modern day Earth.
So a total of 17 of 46 stories or 37% of RTD's era was set then.
...they are London centric, which is another criticism of RTD's run. Only "Boom Town" is set entirely somewhere else. That said, "Utopia/The Sound of Drums/The Last of the Time Lords" has one whole episode not set on modern day Earth, bar one scene and that is set in Cardiff. Also "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" and "The End of Time" also feature many scenes set outside of London.***
Well, being as "DW" was created as a British tv show, it's not surprising that the legacy deemed most of the scenery, time, and history of Britain would be on display! They touched on most of the planet, even The States, but the past, present, and future of London will predominate; only makes sense!
***What are your thoughts on Tom Baker's performances in the horror movies "The Vault of Horror" (1973) and the "Freakmaker" aka 'The Mutations' (1974)?***
For some reason I was just thinking of Baker outside of 'DW;' "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" in particular! He was a real bad guy in that as Koura! It took me back to my childhood in '73! Loved mythical and adventurous movies like that back then!
***...in those pre-home video days, they couldn’t just pull a print of the movie off the shelf. BUT…”The Golden Voyage of Sinbad” was in theaters right there in London, so that is what they went to see. Tom’s great performance as the villain who physically deteriorates each time he uses his powers was so good that he went to the top of the Very Short List and, as we all know now, got the gig. ---
Most blatant examples of the Doctor killing - ...Two arms himself and kills some Ice Warriors in the "Seeds Of Death." Actually, every other story seems to involve the Doctor killing some alien menace in some way or other.***
Well those are just the more direct acts; what about the companions self sacrificing? How many have given of themselves to save him like that Tree Lady in "New Earth," Kylie Minogue as a waitress on the Titanic, going back to classic WHO w/ Adric in "Earthshock!" Not sure of the paradox of Gallifrey getting fried by the War Doctor!
***An analysis of the Master - I would hate to see him killed off for good, but I disliked how he would apparently die (as in Planet of Fire) and then return w/ absolutely zero explanation later on.***
The Master and Davros can't be killed off; always a way back! The Master's return through a religion was the most ridiculous of course! Talk about thinking of oneself as a GAWD; lifelong paranoia and insanity there!
***They really SHOULD be killed off; or rather, they really SHB killed off when they were killed off. The alternative is bad fiction. ---
The Doctor wouldn't have forgiven Clara if she was a guy who threatened him like that with his TARDIS keys. - First off she didn't do anything, it was in her mind. Second I reckon the Doc knows there is something wrong w/ him and until he finds out what, he needs to keep her around. This would also explain why he's been quite nasty to her at times; he suspects something!***
I was thinking Clara had to be under the "mind control" of something, but when I realized that was her actual plan, just for "grins" as the Doctor I would have kicked her ass over the edge in that "dream world" volcano! What a stinking, selfish bitch! I still can't believe the treachery! Her happiness precludes all the Doctor does around the universe! She was feeling guilty that she had to make her feelings known in a stupid phone call instead of in person! Gawd, what a loon! I've never liked her; now she's cemented the deal! She will fall from the heights of saving the Doctor throughout time to some loser that shouldn't be regarded in any way!
***In "Dark Water," why just make it some new different enemy/Timelord or something, heck even the Rani instead of "The Master?" Is this the direction DW's going; Missy being The Master from now on?***
I much preferred it being The Rani even though Kate O'Mara died earlier this year! Maybe that's why they decided to skip that idea until time had passed for another occasion to resurrect her!
***How many regenerations has the Master had? - Anyway, we know that the Anthony Ainley Master and the Eric Roberts Master were stolen bodies, not legitimate incarnations. We also don't know if Roger Delgado's Master and the Pratt/Beevers Kentucky Fried Master were the same incarnation (I now prefer to think of them as separate incarnations; Delgado being Master #12 and Pratt/Beevers being Master #13).If you stick to the TV show:
> Roger Delgado > Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers (May be the same incarnation as Delgado.) > Anthony Ainley > Gordon Tipple (Although he only appears on-screen for a few seconds in the TV movie, and presumably as a stand-in for Ainley anyway.) > Eric Roberts > Derek Jacobi > John Simms > Michelle Gomez
However, if you factor in the Big Finish audios (which, to my knowledge, have 2 different versions of the Master - one to use for Fourth-Seventh Doctor audios, voiced by Geoffrey Beevers, and the other for the 8th Doctor's "Dark Eyes" series, voiced by Alex MacQueen). It gets a little more complicated, then it goes:
> Roger Delgado > Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers > Anthony Ainley > Geoffrey Beevers (As the Ainley body was eroded.) > Gordon Tipple (Representing another stolen body; not the Ainley one.) > Eric Roberts > Geoffrey Beevers (Survived the TV movie as a morphant snake and stole more bodies, but reverted to the Beevers body each time.) > Alex MacQueen (Restored to a new body by the Time Lords, likely in preparation for the Time War.) > Derek Jacobi > John Simms > Michelle Gomez***
My take on the situation was that the Traken, "crispy" Master was his last legitimate incarnation monitored by The Gallifreyan Matrix! Ainley was his 1st stolen body! The only return that bothered me in Classic Who had The Master come back after "The Planet Of Fire!" That really should have been it! Same after being shot in NuWho, but due to a religion he created working both sides, he was brought back again! Now he's survived an encounter w/ Rassilon himself in "The End Of Time!" I can actually wait for this explanation to come!
***-The Master Delgado; sadly died in a car wreck IRL. Last seen w/ a touch of the Ogrons.
-The Master Pratt-Beevers; the Mumm-Ra version, who I prefer to think of as separate to Delgado since it's faintly distasteful to have the late Delgado's own Master showing up looking like a rotting corpse.
-The Master Ainley; a fused/possessed version of the Master in the body of Tremas (both played by Ainley) who presumably died in the process. Last seen on an exploding cat-planet.
-The Master Tipple: The pair of cat's eyes at the beginning of the movie. May be a different incarnation, or may be an imitation of Ainley's. There isn't enough clear footage to tell. Executed by the Daleks.
-The Master Roberts: Another possessed version, the Master presumably using some kind of symbiote to transfer his consciousness. Pulled int the Eye of Harmony.
:At some point offscreen, the Master is resurrected by the Time Lords w/ a new regeneration cycle to take part in The Time War, but...
-The Master Jacobi: ...running from the Time War in fear, the Master re-wrote his memories and biology into the fake identity of Professor Yana. However, he awoke in this form and was recognisably the Master even if only for a few minutes before he was shot by his assistant.
-The Master Simms: The Master regenerates into a younger form to rival the Doctor's. He is shot dead (again), but made arrangements for his revival, which his wife sabotages, causing instability; his resurrected body is born dying. Last seen shooting Rassilon w/ lightning bolts from his hands as they fell through a portal back into the Time War (presumably).
-The Mistress Gomez: ...Who knows what the Hell happened here.***
***Did Missy orchestrate Danny's death? - I'm thinking yes, since she was talking in earlier episodes about Clara being a useful tool. For all we know, she may even have orchestrated Clara meeting Danny and falling in love.***
In her 1st couple episodes, a message was sent to her! That was never explained IIRC, but I don't re-watch the show as much to pick up nuances or solutions to perceived plot holes!
***Who is the worst NuWho companion; Rose or Clara?***
Several faves have had moments of weakness or selfishness, but what Clara did is w/o a doubt one of the most treacherous things I've seen; even worse than Turlough who was under the thumb of the Dark Guardian! Using The Doctor's trust by collecting all those keys and trying to drug and blackmail him was too much! If I had been the Doctor, I would have chucked her over the edge in that "Dream Volcano" just to see her look of shock and just "for grins!" I knew when he said "go to HELL," he couldn't have possibly meant the figurative meaning of the statement! I almost thought we had "jumped the shark" if the script had gone w/ "Greek mythology" and had the TARDIS land off the "river Styx!"
***I like Clara. I thought she was bland before, but now she's actually a human w/ flaws. People still root for the Doctor despite all his many many mistakes. People rooted for Amy despite her awful treatment of Rory. Clara could chop Danny's head off and no one would bat an eyelid. But don't she DARE utter a bad word to the Doctor. That is the most heinous crime a companion could commit. (I'm not even considering the volcano scene since this started way before that).***
Oh I've written her off for all time! To save her rep, it'll probably be scripted that she was under some kind of mind control! The thing is, I can imagine her having such a plan! She's been wishy-washy about being associated w/ The Doctor all season; such emotional conflicts! "PLEASE drop her soon!"
***...there was a rather interesting occurrence in "Dark Water." We're led to believe in 'Deep Breath' that the lady who gave Clara the Tardis phone # was Missy. But when Clara and the Doctor are together w/ Missy, Clara doesn't say anything like, "That's her Doctor, that's the lady in the shop who gave me your phone #!" Sooooo... ---
This was a woman who gave her a phone # to one of the greatest people in the universe though. TBH now, I can't even remember what the shopkeeper looks like.***
It's just been an open possibility; Missy, The Rani, or River in another incarnation! They've been good about carrying an arc over a period of years and bringing the threads together! It had to be someone associated w/ the Doctor who either wanted to help him or to make sure he survived until a certain time later!
***In "Dark Water/Death In Heaven," before the Doctor gets a chance to kill Missy, she disappears in a burst of blue atoms. Then we see a Cyberman in the distance w/ his arm raised implying that he shot her. But is that really the end for Missy? Two reasons to say it's not the end for Gomez's Missy:
- Firstly, the Master has had 2 previous 'deaths' where his body was severely damaged, yet the same regeneration appears later.
The Master is consumed by fire at the end of the "Planet Of Fire." Yet the same regeneration reappears later during "Caves Of Androzani" w/o any explanation for how he survived burning up.
The Master is cremated at the end of "Last Of The Timelords," yet the same regeneration reappears in "End Of Time" thanks to a magic spell.
So there is precedence for Missy to return as her current regeneration, even after 'death.'
- Secondly, have we seen someone die like that from a Cyberman, where they are atomized?
Usually their special effects involve explosions or electricity, w/ physical remains being left behind. This has been shown to be the case as of "Nightmare In Silver." However this season when someone has been atomized, they have ended up within the Nethersphere. So if Missy was killed, she could be uploaded to the Nethersphere, which she has been shown to easily traverse; or the Cyberman didn't get a chance to shoot her b/c she had teleported away. So what's your belief on her fate? ---
I looked at the scene frame by frame and it looks like a blue "bolt" made contact with Missy. - *Sigh*… Why, in New Who, do they always feel the need to kill off the current regeneration of the Master within exactly 2 episodes of him/her revealing themselves to the Doctor? Why couldn't they have traveled together for awhile? No, that would have been too much fun for the fans.
I really hope this time they're going to have a little bit of sense and have had that blue bolt be a teleport and not the Brigadier's cyber-gun. And what was Clara so pissed at Missy for anyway? She didn't kill Danny, a car did. All Missy did was bring him back to her, and then try to give the Doctor a present (okay fine, I'm oversimplifying a little bit… but still, Missy didn't kill him). B/c let's face it, the Master/Mistress is now and has always been in love w/ Doc. ---
I mean, whether Missy was or wasn't killed this time, of course, doesn't matter in the end, she'll be back eventually in some form or another; probably after the Doctor's next regeneration, and probably only for one 2-part episode again. Wow, the originality. Why couldn't they have her escape? That would be too much of, oh I don't know, an interesting change of pace?? Just ridiculous. Why the need to keep killing him/her every time? I get that she's a villain, but still, it just seems kind of cruel.
While we're poking at and questioning things, I thought the Master was only evil b/c of the drumming that Rassilon put in his/her head? So why is she still evil now and not nice like when she was Professor Yana? This is what you get when you try to apply any expectation of logic or consistency to the Whoniverse: a Crucible-sized headache! ---
...Where is Danny now? Where is Gallifrey? These questions save the Missy one cause we know it now, can lead to another season. ...***
Were both lying at their fairwell; Clara keeping Danny info to herself and maybe the Doctor not finding Gallifrey! Is that what happened?
***"DW" has been implicitly marketed as a continuation of the classic series since its return in '05. No continuity announcer said, "And now, we begin a series of adventures set in an alternate universe to the fondly remembered sci fi show, Doctor Who!" There have been reimaginings, continuity errors and clashes, and some best-forgotten moments, but as others have pointed out, there are bigger discrepancies w/in the old series than you will find btw the old and new. ...DW series that began in '05 is indeed a continuation of the series that ran from 1963-89, along w/ a one-off story in '96.
Rose: The Doctor is a traveller in time and space. He has a ship called the TARDIS, which is currently stuck in the form of a police box, and a sonic screwdriver. Ring any bells? He also encounters a familiar species called the Nestene and they in turn have servants who closely resemble the Autons from 2 Pertwee adventures.
The End of the World: The Doctor is identified as a Time Lord. He explains to Rose how she can apparently speak and understand alien languages - an explanation that resembles that given by the 4th Doctor to Sarah Jane.
The Aliens of London: There is a military organisation called UNIT. They know the Doctor and he knows them.
Dalek: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Daleks in the original series? The Cybermen too - the Doctor recognised the head of one.
Tooth and Claw: The Doctor takes the name of one of his 1960s companions - Jamie McCrimmon - as a pseudonym. There sure are a lot of similarities btw these 2 alternate universes, aren't there?
School Reunion: And it turns out that in this alternate universe, there is an alternate Sarah Jane Smith and an alternate robot dog called K9, and when Sarah Jane and Rose are arguing/comparing notes, it emerges that this alternate Sarah Jane had all the same adventures as the "original" Sarah Jane!
Rise of the Cybermen: The Doctor is horrified as he has seen this happen before.
The Satan Pit: References to 3rd Doctor story The Daemons.
Army of Ghosts: Not direct evidence, but countering counter evidence: Prior to this episode, it is clear that the 10th Doctor knew no more about Torchwood than the previous 9.
Human Nature: Images of previous Doctors are seen, something that will recur. The Doctor uses his favourite pseudonym from the original series.
Utopia: Well what do you know, the Doctor's old chum the Master is back - and he's remembering his past adventures. Is it all new material written esp. for the standalone alternate universe series?
Planet of the Ood: Mentions a planet last seen in 1 of Hartnell's early stories.
The Sontaran Stratagem: Hmm, now where have we seen those short armoured guys before?
The Doctor's Daughter: Well Jenny doesn't look like she was born of David T's genes. Maybe somebody else's?
The Stolen Earth/Journey's End: Sarah Jane is surprised to see Davros alive. Anyone would think this Sarah Jane had experienced the events of Genesis of the Daleks.
The Next Doctor/The Eleventh Hour: More images of past Doctors, all the same as the ones from the original series.
The Wedding of River Song: Clear reference to the passing away of the Brigadier.
Asylum of the Daleks: Various references to Doctor vs Dalek stories from the original series, including The Dalek Masterplan and Planet of the Daleks. Past versions of the Daleks.
The Snowmen: Return of a menace from the days of Patrick Troughton's Doctor, with explicit (and gratuitous) references to details of the 2 relevant stories.
The Name, Night, Day and Time of the Doctor: Positively wallows in original series nostalgia.
So, how does that stack up against the likes of "The Silurians look different?" ---
Doctor Who - The Movie showed us the regeneration from 7th to 8th
Night of the Doctor showed us the regeneration from 8th to War Doctor
Day of the Doctor showed the regeneration from War Doctor to 9th - It's an unbroken chain.***
***Would you like to have seen the Master face the 11th Doctor? I would have.***
They over-did the Master IMO; esp. back during the Pertwee era when he was stranded on Earth! Every week, it was one plot after another! They brought him back after he was supposedly gone due to a lack of regenerations, but found a way to over-utilize him again at the end of "Logopolis & Castovalva!" The reboot has been little better; as if he's the Doctor's most dangerous and evil of adversaries!
***I definitely would not have, esp. if the Master was still Missy. Face it, Missy is basically River Song 2.0, so we'd be watching Series 6 all over again - and no one wants that. - Which Master do you think was the nastiest? ---
They've all been total shits, but who do you think was the most evil?
The Ainley Master was the most vicious. He murdered small cute animals for fun!
Missy would be next. She killed Osgood for no reason and her own servants on a whim. However she still did have some affection for the Doctor so that's at least slightly better than Ainley who didn't care for anyone but himself.
Next would be the Crispy Master who was a shit, but at least had the excuse of trying to save his own life.
The Roberts Master would probably be next. He was the same, a nasty guy, but again only cared about saving his own life.
Next up would be Delgado. He was ruthless and vicious, but at least he thought he was bringing order to the universe and would make it a better place if he took over. He also didn't kill unless he had to and didn't seem to take an actual pleasure in killing.
Last would be Simm. He was definitely the least evil, even though he was a mass murdering lunatic. He is the only one of them to do a good thing in saving the Doctor from Rassilon, though a lot of people said he only did it to get Rassilon; I disagree. He also, when blasting Rassilon at least acknowledged how evil he had become and is the only Master to demonstrate bravery in that act.
As for Jacobi's Master, we don't know enough about him, but he seemed more like Delgado as he didn't kill Chantho until he had to; "Now I can say I was provoked." If that had been Missy or Ainley, they would have killed her instantly. ---
Simm was the nastiest IMO or Beevers & the other 1. While Delgado and Ainley would help reverse what they did[mostly Delgado's], ...Simm and Beevers both were vicious and cruel to the Doctor and it wasn't just about the game or being close w/ the Doctor anymore, it was about revenge. It became about doing the most horrible things to the Doctor he could think of.
Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords- That Master scared me to death and made me sick to think what if it really had happened. He was very cruel. To this day, he is the incarnation of the Master I'd fear most. He burned Japan just to make a point to Martha and made her family stand on deck and watch as all those people burned to death. That's just one of the many times he was cruel. It was also one of the times in DW I was thinking and fearing that this was the end of the show b/c I couldn't see how they were possibly going to get out of that one, not even the Doctor. I thought they were very powerful episodes and the Master was very scary and completely out of his mind.
While Delgado would eventually listen to reason and help the Doctor stop his own plan and it was just about playing a game/having fun w/ the Doctor, Simm's Master wasn't listening to the Doctor. He didn't want to hear anything the Doctor had to say, he'd had enough of him, he was out of his mind making jokes out of peoples deaths and had no limits to his cruelty.
'End of Time' brings that relationship back w/ Simm. It wasn't about being cruel to humans to hurt the Doctor to the core, it was more about messing w/ the Doctor as the game they've always played and then helping him defeat the major enemy in the end.***
***In series 2, the 10th Doctor made it clear that parallel universes were controlled by Timelords and they could in fact pass through w/ ease, but now that they're gone, they were seperated. Once you were there you can't come back. If the Timelords return, then Rose (also known as the Doctors psycho stalker, ex-gf) will hunt him down til the end of time itself. She had already done it once even breaking the writers own continuity. Shed probably murder Meta Ten in his sleep just to be w/ her Doctor.***
Shows how much attention I've paid since the re-boot! It never occurred to me that Time Lords could or would be interfering in parallel universes! I guess it makes sense that they would; thinking themselves omnipotent! The Doctor did a lot on his own by accident! They probably dabbled quite a bit in other dimensions and universes; at least monitoring their affairs!
***10 Worst Master Stories:
Last of the Time Lords. The worst Doctor Who story of all time, which not coincidentally featured the Master.
It's a battle for 2nd place! - No it isn't. The 2nd worst Master story (DW story in general) was the most recent one.
3rd, The End of Time. "I've got this brilliant idea - everybody becomes the Master!" "Okay, Russ. And where will you go w/ that idea?" "I, er, will have them mill around for a bit, then go back to not being the Master."
4th, the TV Movie. The Master has been burnt to ashes for the 2nd time of 3. But that's okay, he's a snake now. And he wants the Doctor's remaining regenerations. That's a good plotline to introduce newcomers!
5th, The Mark of the Rani. The Master has come back from some sticky situations, but this is the 1st time he's come back from being unambiguously killed. And he's not needed b/c the Rani's role is quite sufficient.
6th, Timeflight. There isn't any reason for anything that happens in this story, but even against this background the Master's behaviour is strange, and not in an interesting way.
7th, Survival. Not terrible... well actually it is. That motorcycle scene. And the "If we fight like animals" stuff.
8th, The Claws of Axos. Not bad, just a bit dull.
9th, Colony in Space. Dull, and better in the novelisation, but okay.
10th, The Time Monster. As daft as a plug, but mostly in a good way. Fun. ---
...I'm sure Rose would have stayed w/ 11 anyway. She was upset that 10 was leaving. It's comparable to Clara's "please don't change." I don't mind that bit, its actually quite sweet TBH, but it's all the crap we get in the next episode that makes it too stupid.***
I can do w/o either Rose and Clara TBH! Both whine entirely too much, cause more problems than they help w/, and in general are kinda selfish and needy! I prefer a more professional companion; even a savage like Leila who can at least defend herself! Rose got tough in the end, but she had already overstayed her welcome IMO! I still don't know what happened w/ "her" Doctor in the alternate universe! Did she kill him, then go after the original? Anybody? At least Martha moved on and married someone else instead of pining away like Rose! Clara doesn't know WTF she wanted; leaving her real BF periodically to wander the universe w/ the Doctor! Now he's gone!
***Why doesn't Doctor Who have a black and white episode?***
If they have a multi-Doctor ep going back to (Sean) Pertwee, Davison, and McCoy, it might be nice to do something like that in B&W!
***I'm very OK w/ the 25-minute serialized format in Classic Who. However, I do wish that Most (certainly not all) of the 5-part, 6-part and 7-part serials would have been condensed down by at least 1 or 2 eps. A lot of the longer serials are padded and have either unnecessary chases or imprisonments/escapes that rarely move the story forward.***
I guess I was spoiled, in Chicago PBS always played the 4 eps together while the 6-parter was split over 2 Sundays; (10/10) "The Talons Of Weng Chiang!"
***I'm halfway through watching 'Talons of Weng-Chiang,' and I just gotta say how much I'm loving Leela as a companion. She's totally bad ass! I hated most of the 60's DW b/c the women were always so annoying. Literally screaming over shadows, bloody useless whiners. Mind you, I loved Zoe and Vicki was cool too, but the rest... ugh! Now Leela, on the other hand, is just awesome! Brave, strong, a real fighter! Still has a naivety due to her primitive upbringing, but she brings a lot to the show as a companion! ---
"The Talons of Weng-Chiang" is my all-time fave 'Doctor Who' story. The other Who DVDs I own that feature Leela as a companion are:
'The Robots of Death' (Story 90) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93d4koFvYCE - The Doctor and his new companion Leela arrive aboard a huge sandminer on a deserted world and are immediately accused of murder.
'Horror of Fang Rock' (Story 92) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ocIVh0buc - There's something hunting the occupants in a lighthouse on Fang Rock circa 1902.
'The Invasion of Time' (Story 97) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So43FG6tWq0 - In this sequel to 'The Deadly Assassin' (Story 88), the Doctor returns to Gallifrey and betrays his people. Or does he? ---
Will anyone else quit watching if the 13th Doctor is a woman?***
I can't be sure; I'd have to see it, but "out of hand" I think the idea stinks! Call me a misogynist pig; I'll wear the 'stamp' proudly! I had enough trouble dealing with Miss "know-it-all" River Song! If there's a vote taken, I will be going "thumbs down" on it!
***Anyone shallow enough to jump ship over the mere idea alone should have already done so.***
Agreed! My heart hasn't been in it since very early on in the 'reboot!' It tested "cannon" and Classic Who loyalist probably can't totally "go over to the dark" side as is! I tape every show, but never take them out to see again and again like I would a classic Dalek episode; "Genesis ..." or "Destiny ...!" The "Keys To Time" arc is still worth watching! I'll watch a little of 10 if I happen to surf by, but it's nothing I HAVE TO SEE! I'd rather pull out "Blake's 7" episodes! They're classic Terry Nation too!
***Missy should have been The Rani***
I could have lived w/ the Rani, but not the Master! That stunk; sorry!
***Old Who Fans; what do you dislike about the new Who the most? - the romance thing & - more interesting and original monsters. (Daleks and Cybermen overused).***
You covered it all, but the romance thing is really getting tedious! I can't think of a Classic Doctor even being flirted w/; was sci-fi and shouldn't have anything to do w/ romance! The Daleks and Cybermen were definitely overused, but always entertaining! Thanks!
***Having finished w/ the Moffat era, I'm watching the RTD era now, starting w/ S1 (and I have to say the 9th Doctor is a lot better than what I was lead to believe...and I really hope he makes an appearance next year for the 10th ann. of New Who). That said, 3 episodes in, I've noticed a pattern as far as the Doctor and his 1st 3 eps w/ a new Companion.
So let's start w/ the 9th Doctor and Rose. In the 1st episode, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth, and w/ Rose's help, foils an invasion by Autons. Rose then joins him. In the 2nd ep, he takes Rose to the far future to an alien space-station where she meets several alien cultures as well as a future human. In the 3rd ep, he takes Rose to the past, to 1869, to meet Charles Dickens and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Gaelth.
Then onto the 11th Doctor and Amy: In the 1st ep, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth and w/ Amy (and Rory's) help, puts an end to Prisoner Zero's antics and defends the planet from the Atraxi. Amy then joins him. In the 2nd episode, he takes Amy to the far future, to a space-ship where she meets future humans and an alien space whale. In the 3rd ep, he takes Amy to the past, to 1941, to meet Winston Churchill in the midst of WWII and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Daleks.
Finally, w/ the 11th Doctor and Clara: In the 1st ep, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth and with Clara's help, foils a scheme by the Great Intelligence. Clara then joins him. In the 2nd ep, he takes Clara to an alien world (in the future?), where she is exposed to an alien humanoid culture. In the 3rd episode, he takes Clara to the past, to the 1980's amidst the Cold War, and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Ice Warrior.
So it seems, broadly, that the pattern w/ the Doctor and New Companions is:
Ep. 1 - Adventure on contemporary Earth against hidden alien menace.
Ep. 2 - Adventure in the far future/outer space w/ aliens/future humans and grand extra-terrestrial spectacles.
Ep. 3 - Adventure on Earth, in the past, against an alien menace.***
***Would you consider the 'War Doctor' to be Classic-Era or Nu-Era...? - The War Doctor is nothing more than stunt casting for the an. special to draw in viewers outside of the fandom and inflate the viewing figures. I don't count him as canon, considering that he SHB played by McGann in the 1st place.***
Well it gave #9 a reason to be so morose and moody; always seeming to hold something back! It was an interesting concept and it worked out well; esp. the ending w/ 12 of them standing there! Gets me every time!
***I think it would have worked just as well (even better in fact) had #8 been the War Doctor. 8 was the epitome of the "Romantic Doctor" so to have him become involved in the Time War and changed into a dark and callous version of himself would have been incredibly interesting, but instead all his transformation amounted to was a magical potion that made him super grumpy; not really all that bad in the 50th. 9 could have been just as moody w/o the War Doctor being inserted into the timeline.***
You have to admit, at the end of "TNOTD" when Hurt turned around & "entitled" "The Doctor," it had to do something to your insides! I know I sat up a little straighter; enjoying his performances going back to "The Naked Civil Servant" 35 yrs before!
***Oh, it certainly did something to my insides. Mostly, it just made my eyes roll backwards towards the inside of my head. I'm glad that you, as a fan of Hurt, were able to get something out of that. IMO though, the fact that he had to be introduced on the screen: "John Hurt, as THE DOCTOR," only further proves how stunt cast he was. Moffat purposefully ended on that cliffhanger in order to draw in fans of John Hurt for the 50th an.. It was such artificial suspense. And to destroy the timeline of the Doctor's regenerations to do something so self-serving as create a brand new Doctor basically filled me w/ rage. ---
The 11th Doctor is still my fave, though to be fair, I’m still trying to watch stories of the other Doctors, w/ me still haven’t seen the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, or 7th Doctors in their own standalone stories. Funnily enough, the 9th is still my least fave. I really have enjoyed the 12th Doctor. I quite enjoy his grumpiness and I tend to laugh a lot during his stories. Also, I find he works better w/ Clara than the 11th did, partially due to the fact that Clara was able to be more than just a mystery to be solved like in Series 7. I did have a problem with “Kill the Moon” though.
There was a lot of good in the 11th Doctor’s era. ...Rory had a great character arc over the show, going from the rather scared fellow in “The Eleventh Hour” to someone who punched Hitler, threatened robots, and went full badass when the people he cared about were threatened. Speaking of that, the main reason Rory is my favorite companion is his love and loyalty to Amy. The fact that he waited nearly 2,000 years for her says everything about his character that you need to know. We should all look up to Rory.
Now, the 11th Doctor’s era did have some flaws, esp. in Series 6 & 7. I felt it was repetitive to have the Doctor’s death be involved in both series. Also, the plot to kill the Doctor was a little stupid, mainly in the fact that since the Astronaut suit is shown to be automated in “The Impossible Astronaut” and “The Day of the Moon”, so River/Melody wasn’t needed at all. Also, Mels was just shoved into “Let’s Kill Hitler”. She wasn’t mentioned once before and was there just to have her regenerate in that ep. Series 7, unlike previous series, didn’t have any outstanding eps, just okay at best (this isn’t counting “The Day of the Doctor” which I enjoyed. And it had the worst ep, “The Angels Take Manhattan.” It was a bad ep. and a bad way to have Amy & Rory leave the series.***
***Ridley Scott & John Carpenter? Was it meant to be amusing to have The Doctor to not seen "Alien" & likely "The Thing" yet?***
Well that's unrealistic since "Seeds Of Doom" was produced years before John Carpenter made a name for himself with "Halloween" series and "The Thing!"
***John Carpenter's The Thing was a remake of a 1950s film.***
I'm quite aware of the original w/ James Arness, but I was just saying JC's remake had nothing to do w/ "Seeds Of Doom!" IIRC, it was produced in '76 and JC's "The Thing" didn't come out until 4 or 5 years later! If anything, JC borrowed from "DW!"
***Very happy that Clara will still be traveling in the Tardis in Series 9. - I'm glad she's staying. She's one of my favorites. I think they are really good together too.***
Even w/ her betrayal of the Doctor in "Dark Water?" She was willing to actual destroy him and herself b/c of her STUPID love for Danny! I call it stupid b/c as obnoxious as she is, she couldn't wait to say "I love YOU" in person; had to tell him on the phone which got him killed! Stupid BITCH!
***He didn't need to keep walking while talking, nor did he have to stroll on w/ gay abandon instead of looking where he was going. If she was insistent on talking to him right then, he could have found a spot to stand and chat instead of getting run over. Him not being aware of his surroundings isn't really Clara's fault. ---
I rewatched "Day Of The Doctor" today. I paused as Clara comes out of the painting just to check out that extra hand people have mentioned here. It certainly can't be Clara's hand. I've seen speculation that the hand belongs to Missy. If that were true, then she escapes Galifrey before running to the end of the universe and hiding. Many things unravel if the hand is Missy's.***
What I don't understand is how The Master not only conspires w/ the Doctor's enemies, this time SHE actually had control! HOW in the world does this keep happening going back to Pertwee when he was stranded on Earth?
***B/c the Master wants to torture the Doctor for having his dad exiled from Galifrey by destroying what he loves; humans.***
Sorry; never heard that story before! I barely remember they were supposed to be friends! I don't re-watch and listen as much as I did w/ Classic Who so I miss some of those things I consider "plot holes!"
***It's probably from a book, not canon anyway. Yes, they were childhood friends. - how many times has the Doctor been told - "you would make a good Dalek?" ---
In "Journey's End" they talked about the revealing of a Time Lord's soul- the anger, the slaughterer of millions, the one who committed genocide. So even if the Daleks didn't call him a Dalek, they called him a Dalek. What's worse, Davros called him a maker of Daleks and said he had shown him "himself." Whats worse, to be called a Dalek or to be asked, "how many more have died in your name?"***
"Family Of Blood" was on recently and tells you all you need to know about how vengeful and extreme the Doctor can be! He was running from them; not because he was afraid of what they'd do to him, but what he'd do to them!
***Series 8, w/ its emphasis on character arcs over plot-driven narrative, brings a new richness to Doctor Who, easily rivalling any series of the revived era. ..., “Death in Heaven” fails to capitalize on the incredible start provided by “Dark Water,” and falls far short of the high standard set by the rest of the series.
The biggest problem w/ “Death in Heaven” is the poor portrayal of the Cybermen. Created in the 1960s as a response to the emergence of surgeries that replaced diseased organs w/ artificial prosthetics. The Cybermen have always represented mankind’s struggle to identify the boundary btw “man” and “machine,” and the fear that such “spare part” surgeries might inadvertently cross that line. “Death in Heaven” completely ignores this essential facet of the Cybermen mythos, instead depicting the cyber-conversion of dead bodies. Reanimated cadavers are not Cybermen; they’re zombies.
Unfortunately, these new Cybermen don’t even make good zombies. Part of the sadistic thrill of a zombie story is seeing the protagonists face their recently deceased family and friends, who have now returned as threats. How can you kill a monster that still looks like Grandma? Only Clara encounters a reanimated loved one, and Danny never becomes dangerous, despite having his emotional inhibitor chip enabled. The Cybermen in “Death in Heaven” do little more than lumber around like walking dead, as they await having their minds downloaded from the Nethersphere. “They’re not attacking,” states Colonel Ahmed, “They’re just wandering about.” ...The Cybermen in the morgue don’t even kill the attending coroner!
Since “Death in Heaven” does not portray the carnage of the Cybermen invasion, the Master must kill Osgood, a beloved supporting cast member to establish her threat level. It’s a scriptwriting shortcut, and a cheap one at that. ...In fact, despite the logic that U.N.I.T. would be Earth’s primary response to an invading army of Cybermen, “Death in Heaven” actually provides very little for the military task force to do. ...It's nice to further flesh out Kate, finding out that she’s a “divorcée” and “a mother of 2.” She’s as commanding as ever – fantastically capable, yet still human and relatable.
...“Death in Heaven” is filled w/ characters unrelatable to any rational, thinking person. I.E.:
If U.N.I.T. has the ability to both tranquilize and awaken a Time Lord in seconds on command, why would they risk leaving Missy conscious when she’s not being questioned by the Doctor? At the 1st sign of trouble aboard Boat One, why is everyone, save maybe a lone pilot, not loaded into the TARDIS?
Why does the Doctor leave Clara to 'mercy kill' Danny? The Doctor is willing to end the suffering of the space whale in “The Beast Below,” yet, despite needing information that only a fully cyber-converted Danny could provide, the Doctor just wanders away, overcome and distracted, and lets Clara do the dirty work.*** (tb cont.)
***(cont.,) 2nd, the numerous characters and forced plot twists in “Death in Heaven” leave the script little time to close its own narrative loops, leaving several unresolved plot points:
True to his word, the fully cyber-converted Danny doesn’t attack Clara. Why? Cyber-programming being overcome by love was saccharine in “Closing Time,” but now it’s hackneyed, esp. when the plot point is used twice in the same ep. At episode’s end, Danny is only able to resurrect 1 person w/ Missy’s Magic Plot Device Bracelet. A believable explanation might be that the bracelet can only transport 1 person at a time, that person then being unable to return the bracelet to the Nethersphere for the 2nd person’s use, w/o again trapping himself, etc. However, the bracelet is described as specifically having only “enough power for 1 trip,” despite Missy using it to flit back and forth btw realms, all series long.
Sure, Dan, Dan the Soldier Man gets to lead the troops as a commander, for once, rallying the Cyber-army to destroy the clouds threatening Earth. Further, Danny is able to correct the events of his “bad day,” and he sacrifices his opportunity to return to Clara in order for the boy he accidentally killed to have a chance at life. He dies a hero, which is narratively sound, though not inspired or unexpected.
Osgood, Colonel Ahmed, and Seb disappear unceremoniously, before the 3rd act, & Kate isn’t even conscious when she reappears briefly at the ep’s end.
Missy is murdered, not by Clara or the Doctor, but by a resurrected, cyber-converted Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. Like Danny, the Brig has also not succumbed to his cyber-programming and is responsible for saving Kate. The Doctor does get to salute the Brig, but the moment only feels sentimental b/c the episode tells the audience it s/b, not 30 mins prior. Again, the payoff is cheap and not earned over time.
The Doctor lies to Clara about discovering Gallifrey, alluding to his happiness and freeing her to, he assumes, “stay w/ Danny.” He does not wish to repeat the long goodbye of Amy and Rory. ===
I don't think Michelle Gomez is an awful actress, but I do think she was a bad fit for The Master. And it seems to me lately that Moffat is just doing favors for his friends in giving them parts. The only way to explain the influx of AWFUL actors like the flop who plays Danny Pink, Oswin, Queen Elizabeth, etc. ---
The ending was very touching and the scene where Capaldi smashes up the TARDIS in a fit of range was powerful. It is flawed (there are undeniably some things that don't make sense), but I think it is a very good finale on the same level as "Parting Of The Ways" & "Journey's End." 9/10 rating ===
Who is the most beautiful woman in DW?
Top 5:
-Jo Grant -Romana 1 -Polly -Barbara -Leela
I wish I had watched the DW stories w/ Jo Grant earlier seeing as she was the 1st female character I had a crush on growing up, made me realize I am a lesbian, along with other women. I just think Jo was a lovely woman, but scatter-brained sometimes, but lovely. Mary Tamm's, Romana was also very beautiful.***
***Any reason the Eccleston eps not replayed during XMas break? - Well if you consider that 8 seasons is 4 days and the Christmas specials another 8 hours or so, if they needed to take a season out to keep it under 4 days showing time, season 1 is the only 1 that would not be missed.***
If you need to devote time to other series and at the same time "hose" Chris for mouthing off; why not? I wondered if he even thought the show would "take" and that it would end after that one series of the REBOOT?
***Who did Christopher Eccleston mouth off to?***
I DIDN'T pay any attention to the gossip going on behind the scenes! I WASN'T even drooling over who was going to be the next Doctor! I just see and hear that the relationship of Chris to the show wasn't the best! I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from reading the board! It was the same w/ Tom Baker in my day! He supposedly gave them all kinds of Hell; esp. near the end of his tenure! It made no difference to me and I can only tell you peripherally what went on even though I belonged to a DW group in the 80's called "The Children Of Rassilon!" Sorry I couldn't help you!
***Why Moffat ruined the Master - I loved Missy. She was more terrifying than Simm ever was. ...To be fair though, I hated his Master. I'd rank Eric Roberts over him. The "Say something nice" line was very creepy and showed how evil she is.***
Since I don't watch the repeats very often, I had forgotten Missy's "over the top" introduction at the end of "Deep Breath!" Were we supposed to know something about her? I totally blocked it out of my head! I'm guessing that was Missy who called Clara so early on; Moffett good at tying up "most" loose ends!
***3rd Doctor and Jo Grant - I love their final scene together in "The Green Death" such a tender and beautifully acted moment, you can see how much he is going to miss her. ---
I do as well, and would add that the 5th Doctor had a similar relationship w/ Nyssa, who was also visibly upset at her departure. (So was I)***
I always preferred a companion that contributed and few did more than Nyssa; add Turlough, Adric, and Romana for tech reasons! Courageous behavior would be featured in Leela, Zoe, and my namesake, Jamie! ---
I don't know how consummate a fan I really am, but I've always accepted what was presented to me; regardless if I liked it or not! I will point out cannon being violated, but so far the new producers are finding a way to make it acceptable! I'm just happy the show was re-booted in '05; hoping for the same w/ "Blake's 7," but I know it's doubtful!
***You always seem like a pretty serious fan of the series as a whole, old and new, and I agree: I always go w/ the flow and find things to like rather than dislike, unless there's a glaringly huge problem. ...an unacceptable way was "The Ultimate Foe" at the end of "Trial of a Time Lord," w/ its "oh crap, Bob Holmes died before he could write the finale, and now we have a weekend to make up whatever nonsense 1st comes to mind" desperate and nonsensical ending. ...I accept that change is a part of the show, and even if I'm unsure of a new change at 1st, I'll always go w/ it and see if it grows on me rather than assuming at the 1st sign of anything new that the show is in the process of 'jumping the shark.' I don't get how some fans can literally greet any announcement about anything with disdain. As for a "Blake's 7" revival... I've always felt like that's kind of what Firefly was! Obviously not exactly the same, but so similar in its premise that I at least consider it a big-time spiritual successor.***
***The Daleks are the Doctors most recurring enemies and are the only villain to date who has battled every single incarnation of the Doctor on screen. However whilst the Daleks have always remained effective villains of the Time Lord, it is true that certain incarnations of the Doctor have played off of the monsters much better than others.
This can be for a # of reasons. Some Doctors just aren’t as well suited to the villains, others meanwhile don’t get a chance to interact w/ them as much. I will be looking at which Doctors were the best Dalek Doctors. We will also be looking at what each actor who played the Doctor thought of the Daleks.
1st Doctor & Daleks:
The 1st Doctor I felt was 1 of the best Doctors for the Daleks. It's just as well considering, depending on how you count them, he had more Dalek stories than any other Doctor to date. Though if you count 2-parters of the revival as 2 separate stories, then both the 10th and 11th Doctors have more Dalek stories. Either way the 1st Doctor has the most amount of Dalek eps.
There are as many eps w/ the Daleks in the 1st Doctor's era as there are w/ the 10th Doctor & 11th Doctor in total. The 10th Doctor is in 47 eps, whilst the 11th Doctor is in 44 episodes. Hartnell meanwhile has 42 Dalek eps. He also has as many Dalek eps as the 7th Doctor has in total in the series. The 7th Doctor is only in 42 eps. And finally The 1st Doctor is in more eps w/ the Daleks than the 6th Doctor is in total in the series and there are over 3X's many Hartnell eps w/ the Daleks as 9th Doctor eps in total. The great thing about the 1st Doctor’s interactions w/ the Daleks is that they really help to define who he is, and by extension all subsequent Doctors really are.
When we first meet the Hartnell Doctor, he couldn’t be more different from his successors. He is ruthless, selfish, cowardly even murderous. He doesn’t care about the affairs of other life forms, indeed he even looks down on them, calling human beings “primitives” and “savages.”
His morality at first doesn’t seem too different to the Daleks, as he considers himself and Susan above Ian and Barbara b/c they are human. However it is when he confronts the Daleks that we first see the changes in his character.
In the first Dalek story “The Daleks”, the Doctor to start w/ is callous and selfish, perfectly prepared to leave the Thals who have been lured into the Daleks city to their fate, and at one point even Barbara too! However by the end of the story when he sees how far the Daleks are willing to go, destroy an entire culture, an entire species in the blink of an eye it horrifies him.
The Doctor thus for the first time is actually morally outraged at what he is seeing around and actually takes a more active role in trying to stop the Daleks than he ever thought he would. At one point he is willing to give up the secrets of the TARDIS itself to the Daleks to try and save the Thals.
Within the one story we can see a huge change in the Doctors character due to his dealings w/ the Daleks. He goes from being willing to let the Thals walk into a trap to giving up his own time machine to save them. The evil of the Daleks shows him that there are some things in this universe that need fighting against. That’s the point of the story that people or rather creatures like the Daleks who hate others simply for who they are, just b/c they are different must always be fought, by everyone even those whom they are not persecuting.***
***I think that after “The Dalek Invasion of Earth,” we see the Doctor become involved much more often and gradually become more of a hero. After having got involved in stopping the Daleks, he finds that he can no longer sit back in any situation. He has discovered who he truly is in his dealings w/ the Daleks and seemingly what his role is in the universe to help those in need like the Thals and the humans of the 22nd century from the Daleks.
Thus the Daleks really help to define who the Doctor is as a character during the first Doctor's era and that’s what makes his interactions w/ them so interesting. Of course I am not saying that all of the first Doctors development from a self serving character to a hero is b/c of the Daleks, but certainly a large part of it is and I think you can see his development more clearly across his 4 stories with the Daleks than w/ any of his other stories.
In “The Mutants” his first Dalek story, The Doctor is a character who throughout most of the story only cares for himself, and at one point is perfectly happy to leave the Thals to their fate. In his final Dalek story “The Daleks Masterplan” he is now someone who is willing to sacrifice his own life to stop the Daleks and thinks nothing of it.
William Hartnell apparently loved the Daleks. He stated in an interview taken btw the 1st % 2nd seasons of the show that he was delighted they would return in the new series. His wife Heather Hartnell would later say how much he loved them in an interview for the 20th anniv.
Despite this however, Hartnell later mentioned that he found the Daleks somewhat tricky to work w/, as he said it was hard for him acting against an inanimate object. He also apparently didn’t like them being overused stating “I hope we don’t overuse them. I was very clear on that w/ producers. I told them we must not let the series descend into constant Dalek battles. They must be used sparingly.” ---
2nd Doctor & Daleks:
For me the 2nd Doctor could very well be the best Dalek Doctor of them all. Even though he only got 2 Dalek stories, I still honestly can’t think of a Doctor better suited for his archenemies than the 2nd Doctor.
The 2nd Doctor’s Dalek stories were written by David Whitaker. Now Whitaker as I have explored gave us an entirely new interpretation of the Daleks. His Daleks were manipulative, physically powerful, able to understand humans and less alien than Nation's. All of this made them the perfect match for the 2nd Doctor.***
***The Second Doctor was quite a manipulative character. On the surface he seemed like a silly, bumbling oaf, who resorted to a state of childlike panic whenever anything went wrong. However underneath he was arguably one of the most cunning and wily Doctors of them all.
He often used his clown like facade to throw his enemies like the Cybermen and the Ice Warriors all of whom greatly underestimated him off. The Daleks in Troughton’s time similarly often manipulated their opponents by pretending to be harmless, even docile little robots. “I AM YOUR SERVANT”. In “The Power of the Daleks” the Daleks dupe the human colonists into thinking that they are peaceful and everyone on the colony has no idea what they are dealing w/. Only the Doctor knows just how dangerous they are. They’re devious tactics don’t work on him, he can see them for what they really are. At the same time however, his tactics don’t work on them either. His usual “oh my giddy aunt” pretending to be a moron and a fool does not dupe them. They know him too and they know how powerful he truly is.
That’s what makes the 2nd Doctors interactions with the Daleks so fascinating. We see these 2 incredibly powerful creatures, The Doctor and the Daleks, make everyone else around them think they are harmless.
We also see how they use everyone around them including even the Doctor's own companions like pieces on a chess board. The Doctor risks Jamie’s life in trying to manipulate the Daleks in “The Evil of the Daleks.”
This really helped to reinforce the idea of the Daleks being the worst of the Doctor's many enemies. All of his usual tactics could work on the Cybermen, but w/ the Daleks, he had to go that extra mile. He was pushed to his very limits in trying to get one over on them, which is why he risks Jamie’s life, something you could never imagine him doing in any other story, to try and stop them in 'Evil.'
In “Evil of the Daleks” both the Doctor and the Daleks constantly manage to get one over on the Doctor until the Doctor finally beats them. To begin w/ the Daleks get one over on the Doctor by stealing his TARDIS and luring him across time itself. Then when they force him to isolate the human factor, he tricks them by making the humanized Daleks friendly. The Daleks however manage to trick him again by revealing that the technology he has given them will allow them to isolate the Dalek factor and use it to destroy humanity. They then make him their servant, but he is able to trick them one last time by pretending that they have enslaved him and infecting them w/ the human factor.
Patrick Troughton generally tends to underplay it when facing the Daleks, a sign that he is genuinely afraid this time unlike w/ his usual hysterical reactions. I'm not sure how Patrick Troughton’s Doctor would have worked w/ another take on the Daleks. He really lucked out in that Whitaker’s Daleks were such a perfect fit for his Doctor. For the first time, the Daleks actually mirrored the Doctor somewhat, as they both used the same tactics on one another. They were both deceitful, but one obviously used these tactics for good, the other for evil.
Sadly modern generations can’t enjoy the 2nd Doctor's interactions w/ the Daleks properly as only ep 2 of “The Evil of the Daleks” survives w/ all other eps having been junked. Still you should check out the recons on Youtube or the surviving audio tapes to get a glimpse of what are IMO the greatest Doctor/Dalek interactions.
Patrick Troughton was very fond of the Daleks too, just like Hartnell was. Apparently he even counted “The Evil of the Daleks” among his favourites and near the end of his life offered to remake the serial to the BBC who sadly turned him down.***
The Third Doctor I feel was not only a very effective Dalek Doctor, but also a very influential one too. He was I think the 1st Doctor who really demonstrated a hatred for them. The previous 2 Doctors had obviously been willing to destroy the Daleks, but you never got the impression that they despised them.
With the 3rd Doctor however, there were hints that he did despise them. It wasn’t as pronounced as say the 9th Doctor, but still you could see little moments btw 3 and the Daleks that were precursors to the likes of 9 and 11’s interactions w/ the monsters.
The 3rd Doctor is actually shown to take pleasure in destroying the Daleks or watching them be destroyed. In “Planet of the Daleks” after destroying a Dalek he remarks that “for a man who abhors violence I took an immense satisfaction in that”. Then there is the scene in “Death to the Daleks” where he happily watches an electric root destroy a Dalek and actually cheers it on!
Its hard to imagine the 3rd Doctor doing something like that. Actually take pleasure in another life form’s destruction. The 3rd Doctor was one of the most virtuous Doctors of them all, so once again this was a perfect way to show how the Daleks were the Doctor’s worst enemies that they could provoke this type of reaction from him, that even the Master couldn’t.
Interestingly enough Jon Pertwee hated the Daleks. He said he found them to be laughable and boring villains. However I think he was actually able to work that into his performance quite well, as Pertwee’s own real life contempt for the Daleks was reflected in the 3rd Doctors hatred of them.***
Now I think that Tom Baker has the single greatest Dalek story of all time “Genesis of the Daleks” and is obviously one of the best Doctors of all time. However sadly I don’t think he was a good Dalek Doctor at all. In both of his 2 stories to start w/ he actually has very little interaction w/ the monsters. It's really Davros he interacts w/ instead. In “Genesis” he must share the screen for all of 2 mins w/ the monsters.
Look at the 3rd Doctor's reaction a lone Dalek in “Day of the Daleks” compared to the 4th Doctor being cornered by them in “Destiny of the Daleks” where he practically laughs at them.
“If you’re supposed to be the superior creatures of the universe, why don’t you try climbing after us? BYE BYE.”
Thus even though he has the best Dalek story and probably the best Dalek related moment w/ the “have I the right” speech, I’d say the 4th Doctor was probably the worst fit for the Daleks of all the Doctors, and its probably just as well they didn’t use them that often during his tenure. Tom Baker has always said that the Daleks were his fave monsters b/c they were the children’s faves.
The 80’s Doctors & Daleks:
Now I love all 3 80’s Doctors, but sadly I can’t really devote any time to their interactions w/ the Daleks. The reason is that none of them really had any memorable interactions w/ the monsters. ...the Daleks don’t really get to interact w/ the Doctor much in their time as Davros takes centre stage, and therefore most of the Doctor's interactions are w/ Davros instead.
That’s not to say there aren’t some great Doctor Dalek moments. The 7th Doctor being cornered by a Dalek flying up the stair after him, for the 1st time! Is surely one of the most iconic moments in Who history. I also felt there was a lot of potential for for all 3 80’s Doctors to be good Dalek Doctors. The 5th Doctor being a much more vulnerable character would have worked well as we could have seen how affected he was by the evil they caused and how, if anything they managed to push him too far. The 6th Doctor would have made an excellent Dalek Doctor due to his darker nature, you can imagine him getting angry and wanting to destroy every single last one of them. The 7th Doctor meanwhile due to his more manipulative nature I think would have been a good match for David Whitaker type of Daleks, more manipulative and sly villains.
Sadly however none of this potential was ever really realized on screen. The 80’s Doctors would go on to encounter the Daleks many more times in the Big Finish Audio stories, free of Davros. Of all of them I’d say the 6th Doctor is the best Dalek Doctor. I think that the 6th Doctor's interactions w/ the Daleks are actually among the most interesting.
However since we are only looking at their tv encounters w/ the Daleks, then sadly I have to conclude that all 3 80’s Doctors did not have any memorable interactions w/ the Daleks. I love “Resurrection of the Daleks”, “Revelation of the Daleks” and “Remembrance of the Daleks” all classics, but never the less like I said the Doctor doesn’t really get to interact w/ them much in any of those stories, except shoot them or run away from them and instead the villain he gets to play off of is now Davros instead. Thus we never get to establish a relationship w/ any of the 80’s Doctors and the Daleks the way we did w/ the first 3.
For this same reason I will also be overlooking the 8th Doctor’s interactions w/ the Daleks, as again he only encountered them once on tv, via archive footage in “The Day of the Doctor” so its not really possible to est. what kind of a relationship he had with them. Similarly I will also be skipping the War Doctor who also only encountered them in one scene.
All of the 80’s Doctors loved the Daleks, Colin Baker said they were his fave monsters whilst Sylvester McCoy has said that he didn’t feel like the true Doctor until he fought the Daleks, which didn’t happen until the 1st story of his 2nd series.***
Now the 9th Doctors interactions w/ the Daleks are probably the most celebrated and it's not hard to see why. Christopher Eccelston really captured the hatred the Doctor had for the villains, which had only been made worse by the Time War.
In many ways the 9th Doctors interactions w/ the monsters, captured all of the very best elements of the 1st 3 Doctors interactions w/ them. Like the 1st Doctor, the 9th Doctor's character is really shaped by his dealings w/ the Daleks. It is the Daleks who after all made him into a much darker, more bitter and hateful character at the start of the series due to the Time War. Eventually his darker qualities are fully brought to the fore in “Dalek” where he ends up pointing a gun at Rose to murder the Dalek that is now defenseless. Here he realizes just how far he has come, how low he has sunk and w/ Rose’s help he's able to put his hatred behind him and move on and become a much better person. ...Unlike before where he (seemingly) slaughtered billions of innocent people in the Time War to stop them, now he proudly declares that he would happily be “a coward” rather than a killer any day, and thus much like w/ the 1st Doctor we see what type of man he truly is through his dealings w/ the Daleks.
Like the 2nd Doctor we also see some rather interesting parallels btw the Doctor and the Daleks during his time too. We see how both of them lost everything during the war and have become mere shadows of their former selves. Its not just a question of the both lost their entire worlds, but everything they believed in and even represented went up in flames at the end. The Doctor believed himself to be a good man “never cowardly nor cruel” yet he had now butchered billions of innocent men, women and children. The Daleks meanwhile believed themselves to be destined to be the masters of the universe, but had now been virtually wiped out. They were for all intents and purposes a dead race, a thing of the past, w/ the few survivors living in the shadows and filth of other races like human beings. Thus both of them when we see them are mere shells of their former selves. The Daleks are mad or half human hybrids, the Doctor is angry, bitter and vengeful and even somewhat inept as a hero.
When the 9th Doctor says to the Dalek that “everything you stood for is gone” he is talking to himself just as much as he is to the Dalek. However at the same time whilst we see this rather interesting similarity btw the Doctor and the Daleks, we also see how the Doctor is ultimately stronger.
Finally the 9th Doctor obviously took 3’s hatred of them to a whole other level w/ the 9th Doctor at one point promising to exterminate the entire Dalek race at the end of “The Parting of the Ways” and trying to murder a defenseless Dalek out of no reason other than vengeance in “Dalek”.
Of course a lot of credit for the 9th Doctors wonderful interactions w/ the Daleks has to go to Russell T Davies too. He was an excellent writer for the Daleks and really not only beefed them up as villains overall, but also their relationship w/ the Doctor too.
Eccelston though claiming to have never been that much of a DW fan growing up had stated that he nevertheless always enjoyed watching Dalek stories as he found them fascinating, that a creature like a Daleks could be so evil and so pathetic at the same time. He also said he always wanted to see what the creature inside looked like.***
Now originally I didn’t think much of the 10th Doctors interactions w/ the Daleks. After the way 9 played off of them, 10 seemed a bit tame in comparison. Now however I think that was actually the right thing to do as it made sense that that would be how the Doctor would react to them at this point in his life. The Tenth Doctor was a much more benevolent figure than 9 was. After having reached the absolute low point of his life as 9, 10 obviously was trying to control his darker impulses instead and become more like the hero he had been centuries earlier.
However we could see that that dark side in the 9th Doctor was still there lurking under the surface in 10 and would occasionally be let out such as against the Racnoss. Thus when 10 is around the Daleks, he has to hold it together every second. You can tell he wants to lose it and destroy them completely.
This is seen in “Daleks in Manhatten/ Evolution of the Daleks” where he is genuinely devastated that they have survived yet again “they always survive while I lose everything”. And also w/ his clone who acts in the way 10 would very much like to and finally wipes the Daleks out and makes them pay for all they have done to him.
10’s interactions w/ the Daleks also paved the way for 11’s, as w/ 9 we see a Doctor who embraces his hatred of the monsters and is taken to a very dark place, where he ends up pointing a gun at Rose in order to destroy the Metaltron. Thus 10 tries to hold that hatred in check and even tries to show compassion to the Daleks. However this results in great catastrophe for him. ... as had he just destroyed Dalek Caan there and then the Daleks would have been finished, but his compassion allowed Caan to escape.
Thus 11 has a renewed hatred and even stronger desire to finish them forever as a result of 10’s mistakes. Therefore whilst his interactions may not have been quite as tense as 9’s were, I still think 10 had quite an interesting dynamic w/ them, and served as the perfect bridge btw the 9th and the 11th Doctors, both of whom utterly despised the Daleks.
David Tennant having been a life long DW fan absolutely adored the Daleks. His favorite ever story is in fact “Genesis of the Daleks” and he has said that it was actually this story that got him interested in DW in the 1st place.***
Now not many people think that the 11th Doctor was that well suited to the Daleks. Personally, however I’d rank him as 1 of the Doctors who played off of them the best. The 11th Doctor much like the 9th and the 3rd had a passionate hatred of the monsters. He reacted w/ violence towards them and was even shown again much like both the 3rd and 9th Doctors to take a delight in destroying them.
In some ways I actually found this to be more effective than the 9th Doctor's interactions w/ them. The thing about Matt’s Doctor is again much like Jon Pertwee, he is the last Doctor you’d expect to do something like that. You’d expect it from Chris who is a darker, more volatile Doctor, but Matt’s sweet, funny, painfully uncool Doctor is the last you’d expect to see casually tear open a Dalek.
What’s even more disturbing is how calm he is in doing it as well. Unlike the 9th Doctor, he doesn’t shout and scream, showing that by this point it's just become natural to him. His hatred of the Daleks now is a part of him as much as his heroic qualities.
I also as I said before think that 11’s hatred of them made perfect sense after the way 10 played off of them. 10 as we saw tried to show mercy to them, which turned out badly for him and his friends like Harriet Jones and Donna Noble. Thus 11, unlike 10 who tried to hide his hatred for them, embraces it. He is more determined than ever to destroy the Daleks after all he went through at their hands in his 10th incarnation. In real life Matt Smith absolutely loved the Daleks and even remarked that he found it difficult to hate them on screen as he loved them so much.
12th Doctor & Daleks:
Now I am not going to go into too much detail here as the 12th Doctor’s era has only begun and he has only had 1 story against the Daleks so far. Still he has shown promise to have an interesting dynamic w/ them. Much like 3, 9, & 11, he's shown to have a deep hatred of them. Obviously Capaldi can do anger very well and is also brilliant at capturing the Doctors dark side.
However again, it's still too early to say how 12’s relationship will develop w/ them, but the character of Rusty a benevolent Dalek, or rather a Dalek that just hates it's own kind certainly looks like it could offer up a fresh dynamic btw the Doctor and his oldest and deadliest enemy.
Conclusion:
As you can see the Doctors relationship w/ the Daleks has changed over the years, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst, but it's still always been a very complex and interesting relationship nonetheless. Personally I’d say the best Dalek Doctors on screen are 2, 9, 1, 11, 3 and 10 in that order.***
***Potential for a very different #12 and Clara dynamic post-'Last Christmas' - ...I'm glad that she's staying b/c they have an opportunity to explore their relationship even further now that they understand each other more.***
Understand one another? What else do you need to know after Clara's "believed" assault and threat/blackmail trying to get Danny back in "Dark Water?" He's not as bad as she thought; actually trying to help her after her treachery!
***Exactly! I think they do understand each other now - which is why, after some time apart, they're ready to come back together as friends and travel now w/ a better dynamic btwn them. While I compared this change in dynamic to #6 and Peri, the comparison to #5 and Tegan is just as appropriate. ---
I'm tired of companions always saving the day or being a part of saving. It diminishes the Doctor's status as Earth's protector. They need to go back to companions being casual observers rather than plot points.***
Well you see what happens when The Doctor is left to his own devices going back to "The Wedding Of River Song!" While in that time loop, he just languished in a cell until Churchill decided to listen to him again! Amy had to finally rescue him, taking all concerned to "Area 52!"
***That was just a poorly written plot. The Doctor can't be contained in a cell. That's why the universe banded together to create the Pandorica Box to trap him inside. Besides, there's a difference btw assisting the Doctor and leading him by the nose. ---
Like any long running series, "Doctor Who" is bound to polarize its devoted fandom. There are some things that are nearly universally beloved like Roger Delgado, 'Genesis of the Daleks,' David Tennant, Tom Baker, 'An Adventure in Space and Time, Blink, Caves of Androzani,' Bob Holmes etc. Some that divide fandom intensely to huge fanboy wars, RTD, Moffat, Terry Nation, John Simm Master, Missy, JNT, gender bending among Time Lords. Others are near universally despised like Eric Roberts', Master, Adric, Dodo. It's funny though how reactions can change over time though like 'Caves of Androzani' wasn't seen as anything special when it 1st aired, but now it's a huge deal. ---
The Valeyard is a good villain... when he seems like just another bureaucratic Gallifreyan villain, like those we encountered in the past Gallifrey serials! It's only the ridiculous final twist about who he is that puts a damper on the character. ...I've always assumed that the Valeyard actually being the dark side of the Doctor's own personality was just made up by Pip and Jane Baker, and has nothing to do w/ Holmes and Saward's original story.***
The more exposure you had w/ The Time Lords, the more it may have been justified that Daleks and other species have gone after Gallifrey! Being all omniscient can be wearing; even in a robotic states of Cybermen & Daleks!
***Haven't Watched Doctor Who In Ages - Which do you suggest?
1st Doctor--17/19
-An Unearthly Child -The Daleks -Edge Of Destruction -The Keys Of Marinus -The Aztecs -The Sensorites -The Reign Of Terror -The Dalek Invasion Of Earth -The Romans -The Web Planet -The Space Museum -The Chase -The Time Meddler -The Ark -The Gunfighters -The War Machines -The Tenth Planet
2nd Doctor--5/11
-The Moonbase -Tomb Of The Cybermen -The Invasion -The Mind Robber -The Seeds Of Death
3rd Doctor 21/24
-Spearhead From Space -The Silurians -The Ambassadors Of Death -Terror Of The Autons -The Mind Of Evil -The Claws Of Axos -Colony In Space -The Daemons -Day Of The Daleks -The Curse Of Peladon -The Sea Devils -The Mutants -The Time Monster -The Three Doctors -Carnival Of Monsters -Frontier In Space -Planet Of The Daleks -The Green Death -The Time Warrior -Death To The Daleks -The Monster Of Peladon
4th Doctor 42/42
-Robot -The Ark In Space -The Sontaron Experiment -Genesis Of The Daleks -Revenge Of The Cybermen -Terror Of The Zygons -Planet Of Evil -Pyramids Of Mars -The Android Invasion -The Brain Of Morbius -The Seeds Of Doom -The Masque Of Mandragora -The Hand Of Fear -The Deadly Assassin -The Face Of Evil -The Robots Of Death -The Talons Of Weng Chiang -Horror Of Fang Rock -The Invisible Enemy -Image Of The Fendahl -The Sun Makers -Underworld -The Invasion Of Time -The Ribos Operation -The Pirate Planet -The Stones Of Blood -The Androids Of Tara -The Power Of Kroll -The Armageddon Factor -Destiny Of The Daleks -City Of Death -The Creature From The Pit -Nightmare Of Eden -The Horns Of Nimon -Shada -The Leisure Hive -Meglos -Full Circle -State Of Decay -Warrior's Gate -The Keeper Of Traken -Logopolis
5th Doctor
-Castrovalva -Earthshock -Resurrection Of The Daleks
6th Doctor
-Mark Of The Rani
7th Doctor
-Dragonfire -The Happiness Patrol -The Curse Of Fenric - Which should I watch? ---
Why not start w/ "Earthshock?" No better way to re-acquaint yourself w/ the show than the 1 where Adric dies.***
Now that wasn't nice as all! It's possible that little spoiler might not have been "common knowledge" even though it was discussed at length during the interviews of 50th ann. "past" Doctors' series!
***I was always led to believe that the 6th Doctor was the worst of the lot. Indeed, I took an intense dislike to him when the 5th just regenerated into him at the end of 'The Caves of Androzani.' But now that I've seen a full adventure w/ him, I have to say I quite enjoyed watching him in "Mark Of The Rani."
There were a lot of very enjoyable quirks in Colin Baker's portrayal of 6. The intensely formal, somewhat snobbish accent, the perpetually acerbic tone, the vanity coupled w/ the horrendously colorful outfit all made 6 pretty unique among the Doctors. Basically, he was a somewhat more 'gentlemanly' (at least in terms of mannerisms and speech) version of 9 and to some extent 12. ...Now granted, I've only seen one serial, and I've been told some of his others are the very worst of the classic series, but for now at least, I find 6 to be, certainly not among the best, but definitely one of the most enjoyable and unique Doctors.***
So you missed Tribute episode from the 50th anniversary showings of past Doctor episodes? Colin gave us "Vengeance On Varos;" pretty good one!
***Praise your fave forgotten scenes. - In 'State Of Decay', there's a most amusing yet chilling scene where the guard captain pleads w/ Aukon that his men are dying in the rebel attack and Aukon coldly replies: "Then die; that is the purpose of guards. Now go!" ---
In "The Pirate Planet," when K-9 is waiting w/ Mula in the Mentiads' pad for the Doctor et al. to arrive, and when the Doctor bursts through the door and booms, "Hello, K-9! Surprised to see me?" I love how K-9 exclaims brightly, "Amazed, Master!"
In "The Power of Kroll," when everyone in the control room is gazing anxiously at the monitor as Kroll is on the move, I love the way the Doctor remarks w/ mock glee, "Oh, look! He's coming this way!"
I'd have to look at the scene again to get the wording right, but in "The Brain of Morbius" I love how Solon disparages Condo as being a "chicken-brained biological disaster!" Even the Captain w/ all his sky demons in "The Pirate Planet" couldn't match that one. ---
10 ways "Doctor Who" has misused The Master***
Misused and overused! I've raged in that past of those seasons when the Doctor (Pertwee) was stuck on Earth and the Master was behind every plot, even if aliens like "The Sea Devils" fronted the drama initially! It was all ridiculous; the plots, the sets, the costumes! There's so many of them I just didn't keep in my collection of VHS tapes when recording in the 80's!
***Yep the stories are almost just rehashes of each other. Master brings an alien threat to Earth, realises he's bitten off more than he can chew, then has to seek the Doctor's help in defeating it. The ending of "Terror Of The Autons" is a bit of a cop out, Doctor just pleads with him and he realises it's not such a good idea. "Claws Of Axos" arguably didn't need the Master. As the article says, he's best in "Colony In Space" and "Frontier In Space." ...I just wish they'd made that story instead of Planet of the Daleks!***
***I'm a newbie to Doctor Who, and am trying to figure out what is the definitive number of DW eps that have aired since '63? I'm talking about individual airings, NOT serial episodes taken together as one unit. Wikipedia says that it's 798 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_serials). IMDb is more coy about listing ep sums for shows: you have to click on an individual episode and read where it says "x of y Episodes," where "y" is the total number.
ReplyDeleteAccording to IMDb then, the original series had 695 eps and the current series has 111. IMDb does not count the TV movie as an episode for obvious reasons, but Wiki does. By IMDb's reckoning then, if we count the movie, that would make for a grand total of 807 eps, 9 more than Wiki's reckoning.
I counted all the eps for the current series according to Wiki and came up with 102 (revived), but I think that discrepancy is easy to figure out. Wiki is only counting aired episodes, whereas IMDb counts 2 eps from the current series that haven't aired yet: the 50th Anniversary Special (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2779318/) and the first ep of the next season (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2986512/) which doesn't even have a title or air date.
So that leaves 7 eps in the old series that IMDb is counting, but Wiki doesn't. I don't feel like counting the eps of the old series myself, but maybe someone at least has a clue as to how this could be?
---
The original Series had 699 individual eps making up 159 stories - Well, I'm at least convinced that the # of aired eps for the revived series is 109, so together with 699 that would make 808, 10 above Wikipedia's count (unless you weren't counting the TV movie as part of the original series, in which case the total would be 809). Either Wiki is way off, or I miscounted the eps of the revived series.
---
That's where you're going wrong
13 episodes in series 1
The Christmas Invasion
13 episodes in Series 2
The Runaway Bride
13 episodes in series 3
Voyage of The Damned
13 episodes of series 4
The Next Doctor
Planet of The Dead
Waters of Mars
End of Time Part 1 & 2
13 episodes in Series 5
A Christmas Carol
13 episodes of series 6
Doctor, Wardrobe and something equally as dull
13 episodes of series 7 with...
The Snowmen in the middle. That...102 I think.
Prequels and Comic Relief skits I'm sure don't count.
---
It's 102. Also, I just now noticed in the Wiki article that The "Five Doctors" is counted as 1 ep broadcasted even though it has been released as 4. So whoever said there were 699 original series eps might have been counting that one as 4 eps. So subtract those 3 extra eps and the TV movie (I'm guessing) and you get IMDb's count of 695. Assuming that that squares with Wiki's reckoning of the original series eps, then add 695 to 102 plus the TV movie and you get Wiki's grand total of 798.***
Well, well; something to add to my blog! Thanks!
I honestly don't understand how anyone on Earth can't grasp this. The Valeyard way back when was unveiled to be a "future" version of The Doctor around the time of the 12th to 13th and final incarnation. The Great Intelligence directly refers to The Doctor having other names, and name drops "The Valeyard" for the first time since, what, thirty odd years of the show introducing him?
ReplyDeleteThe 11th Doctor refers to John Hurt as the one who broke the promise and cannot use the name of "The Doctor." He also says it's only him in this time tunnel, "that's the point," so it has to a previous regeneration, albeit one that didn't use the name "The Doctor." That makes Doctor 11, in fact, Doctor 12. This is "the fall of the eleventh" at Trenzalore.
Doctor 12 refers to him as "my secret," meaning up until this point, wibbly wobbly timey wimey, he's kept him hidden. This is the part where he become revealed to the wider universe, and at what time is this? The time of Doctor 12, who is due shortly to regenerate and become the 13th and final incarnation. Although Moffat will no doubt find a way to extend that regeneration limit. So...
The Valeyard is from the future around "the time of the 12th to 13th" incarnations of The Doctor.
The Great Intelligence refers to traversing time and space gathering information and that The Doctor will "become known" as The Valeyard, even though we know The Valeyard has already been seen by The Doctor himself way back when, albeit not by the wider universe. The time tunnel contains only The Doctor, meaning John Hurt is The Doctor, but not using The Doctor's Name.
That makes Doctor 11 fall to number 12, making this the time of the 12th and soon to be 13th incarnation. Every time I read about him being an older Doctor 8 (no, fall of the eleventh at Trenzalore) or something from the future (which Doctor 12 wouldn't remember) I die a little inside.
---
I would like it to be the Valeyard in some form, but I despise the idea of Eleven secretly being "Twelve." - Dorian quoted the prophecy of The Silence that "the fall of the eleventh" was waiting for him along with "the question" at "Trenzalore." I don't like it either, but there is no other explanation, unless #11 is going back to fall off a cliff at Trenzalore come Christmas.
The Silence were a religious order formed on the basis that they knew 'silence would fall' when the question was asked, b/c the universe without The Doctor is dead, but to save it they have to kill him before his victories can be rewritten by the Great Intelligence with access to his grave when the question is asked.
The Silence have discussed this, and that Tesselecta and its agency also discussed it. Dorian is the only one who ever mentioned the fall of the 11th, but then he's got a lot of contacts. Hell he knew why Demons Run was called Demons Run before a good man actually went to war. He was also quick to jump that "it is you!" when everyone else thought The Doctor was dead. He also said he knew b/c "I can feel it" meaning he likely has some kind of psychic powers (heck, he's blue and alien).
Of course The Silence had to create River to get The Doctor when simply blowing up his Tardis did not work, ironically leading to another order, The Alliance of Cyberman and Daleks and all sorts to save the universe by locking up The Doctor in The Pandorica. ...(cont.,)
...So, in series 5, The Alliance tried to save the universe from an explosion of The Tardis caused by The Silence who were trying to save the universe from The Great Intelligence entering its history like an open wound through The Doctors grave at Trenzalore, and when that didn't work The Silence used his companion's child to make a Time Lord weapon in River Song to kill him in a fixed point in time they managed to create, only for The Doctor to turn it around using a robot so that the basic criteria of him "dying" there was met. ...
ReplyDeleteThe Silence themselves were always endorsing "silence will fall." It's their core belief, and it's what they want to happen, since "silence" refers to the Doctor's death. They want him dead before he can reach Trenzalore b/c if he's dead, then the Question can't be answered and his "silence" will fall. That's why the Silent in '69 said to Amy, "We do you honour. You will bring the silence." The Doctor himself explained this almost verbatim in The Wedding of River Song, but everyone seems to have collectively wiped that scene from their memories. ...it's clear that they were the ones who blew up his TARDIS.
According to Dorian's prophecy, the "fall of the 11th" is a prerequisite of the Question being asked on Trenzalore b/c it's asked at the fall of the 11th. Anything that happened in the Doctor's time tunnel could not be the fall of the 11th b/c the 'Question' had already been asked by that point. ...
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You stated yourself that the Valeyard came about between #12-13, yet you say the only way for 11 to become 12 is if John Hurts "Valeyard" was around before as a previous incarnation. So he has to be a hidden regeneration to make up the #s and then become a future incarnation?
The Valeyard would be cool, but if anything Hurt's Doctor is a pre-requisite for the Valeyard (bumping 11 to 12), instead of being him himself, as using him to increase the #s by adding him as a past version, then having him ALSO be someone from his future who will become known, it's not making sense to me and i hope I've explained why.
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He's The Valeyard from the time of the 12th to 13th, and his existence makes it the time of the 12th to 13th, but he was actually the 9th incarnation, he wasn't revealed to the universe at large until the time of the 12th and 13th. - "The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation."
The Time Lords would not have known he came into being at incarnation 9, b/c The Time War is Time Locked. So for him to come into play a 2nd time (first, from their perspective) in the future around the time of The 12th makes sense to them, that he came into being around then, as opposed to came back.
The Valeyard could still be the one who pulled "the moment" and be evil, if anyone is going to be a complicated villain, it's going to be The Doctor more so than The Master. They're not going to mentiong The Valeyard in the series finale, keeping the character canon, and then have Matt Smith turn into an evil Doctor at XMAS.***
***"The Valeyard, Doctor, is your penultimate reincarnation... Somewhere between your 12th and final regeneration."
ReplyDeleteFrom The Time Lords perspective this would be the debut of The Valeyard, not its return, b/c they wouldn't be able to know The Valeyard is incarnation 9 created in The Time War. To them, The Valeyard would come into being/be released into the universe at the time of between The 12th incarnation and 13th, which is now, b/c 11 has fallen to 12.
B/c 11 has admitted to his being, in fact, 12 now that 9 has been discovered, it will be known as "the time between 12th and 13th." Not known as "the time #9 which makes me 12 came back and by the way he blew you all to bits and time locked you."
But this when The Valeyard gets out there for the second time, out of the time lock, which The Time Lords don't know about. To them it's the time between 12th and 13th when The Valeyard appeared, and therefore must be a penultimate reincarnation "somewhere" in that time, showing how vague their knowledge is.
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Canon has given us that The Valeyard was created some time between the 12th and 13th incarnations b/c The Time War is Time Locked ...But they do know this is the time of the 12/13. They do know this is when The Valeyard appears.
They don't know 9 and The Valeyard are the same and 9 blew them up and Time Locked that moment. B/c them knowing that and letting him do it would be stupid. Same as they don't know anything about The Time War despite knowing about post 8 Doctor's right up to the period of 12/13.
The Canon is The Valeyard appears in this 12/13 period from The Time Lord's perspective. After all, they're the ones who said it.
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Why would they mention that old crap from the 80's and not do something new? "Trial of a Timelord" is a shoddy mess that is better best forgotten, it's the Nadir of classic Who for me and should be quietly ignored at all costs, the new series done the whole "Doctor's Evil Darkside cliche" a hell of a lot better with the Dreamlord IMO.
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I think the Valeyard is mentioned to cite precedent more than anything else, and set up what's to come. The Valeyard is an interesting concept that was never fully explained or resolved b/c Robert Holmes died whilst completing the script, and I doubt anyone on the new series feels an obligation to it. I could be wrong, but I think Moffat is keen to do his own thing.***
***Locations outside of the UK. Moffat seems to have more than RTD by the looks of it.
ReplyDeleteRTD:
- Series 1:
America (in 'Dalek')
- Series 2:
France (in 'The Girl in the Fireplace')
- Series 3:
America (in 'Daleks in Manhattan' and 'Evolution of the Daleks')
- Series 4:
Italy (in 'The Fires of Pompeii')
Germany (in 'Journey's End')
Moffat:
- Series 5:
Italy (in 'The Vampires of Venice')
France (in 'Vincent and The Doctor')
- Series 6:
America (in 'The Impossible Astronaut', 'Day of the Moon' and 'The Wedding of River Song')
Germany (in 'Let's Kill Hitler')
Sort of Ancient Egypt but also not? (in 'The Wedding of River Song')
- Series 7:
America (in 'A Town Called Mercy' and 'The Angels take Manhattan')
North Pole (in 'Cold War')
Moffat seems to have several countries per series, while RTD had none in S 1 and one per series since.
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William Hartnell:
season 1:
An Unearthly Child parts 2-4 are presumably set in Afrca (due to cavemen)
Marco Polo is set in China
The Aztecs was, obviously, set in MesoAmerica
The Reign of Terror was set in France
Season 2:
The Romans was set in Italy
The Crusade was set in Palestine
The Chase features scenes in New York and Ghana (also the Gettysburg Address on a monitor, if that counts?)
Season 3:
The Myth Makers was set in Greece/Turkey/Troy (set in Ancient Troy, which makes it a pain to describe what country it's actually in..)
The Daleks' Master Plan features scenes in ancient Egypt
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve was set in France
The Gunfighters was set in the US (Tombstone, AZ)
Season 4:
The Tenth Planet was set in Antarctica.
Patrick Troughton:
Season 4 (cont.):
The Underwater Menace was set in Atlantis – but the location was on some unspecified volcanic island (i.e. not the UK) if that counts?
Season 5:
The Abominable Snowmen was set in Tibet
The Enemy of the World was set… basically everywhere – though primarily in Australia and “Central European Zone”
Season 6:
…kinda depends where the events of The War Games actually take place.
Jon Pertwee:
….none.
Tom Baker:
Season 12:
None (although The Sontaran Experiment could theoretically be set anywhere on Earth)
Season 13:
Pyramids of Mars contains some scenes set in Egypt (just the opening, in a tomb though, as I recall)
The Seeds of Doom has some scenes set in Antarctica
Season 14:
The Masque of Mandragora is set in Italy
Season 15:
None.
Season 16:
None (but then, only one story was set on Earth)
Season 17:
City of Death was set (and filmed) in Paris (with a scene in Italy)
Season 18:
None.
Peter Davison:
Season 19:
None.
Season 20:
Arc of Infinity was set (and filmed) in Amsterdam.
Season 21:
(Warriors of the Deep’s sea base could have been anywhere)
Planet of Fire was set (and filmed) largely in Lanzarote
Colin Baker:
Season 22:
The Two Doctors is set (and filmed) in Spain
Season 23:
None.
Sylvester McCoy
Season 24:
None.
Season 25:
None (although Silver Nemesis features some scenes set in South America)
Season 26:
None
And the Paul McGann TV Movie was set in San Francisco, but filmed in Vancouver.
(It’s worth bearing in mind that the seasons got gradually shorter throughout the series; Seasons 7-22 was half the length of Seasons 1-6, and Seasons 23-26 were half again. It’s not as if they just decided to stop having other countries towards the end, just that there was usually only 1 or 2 stories per season set on Earth at that point – while S 26 by necessity HAD to be set all in the UK)***
Thanks for all this great info!
***I remember the Doctor was quite sarcastic to Tegan in 'Warriors of the Deep.'***
ReplyDelete#5, Davison was sarcastic, but he was more impatient than anything; hating to explain stuff to the less intellectual! I think Adric frustrated him the most since he was supposed to be so smart, but asked the dumbest question at the most inappropriate time!
***Perhaps his sarcasm reached new heights in his last story, 'The Caves of Androzani,' in which he taunts Sharaz Jek at the risk of his life.
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Which classic serial would you adapt to a film? - I mean if they were going to adapt one of the original serials into a movie (a la the 60's Dalek films) which one would you pick to be remade? I kinda lean towards The "Talons of Weng Chiang" b/c it's one of my favorites, has that great golthic Victorian London setting, and has a wonderful selection of characters.
My 2nd choice would be "The Web of Fear" b/c... well, the Doctor fighting robot Yeti in the tunnels of 60's London Underground, what's not to love? It would be difficult to see new actors take on established roles, but I think it's still an interesting hypothetical question. What would be your picks?***
"Talons..." is a good one, but if you want to make money and peek the interests of the masses, ya have to stick to the "tried and true," Daleks or Cybermen! I'd go with "Genesis...." for obvious reasons and the other in the alternate/parallel universe where the Cybermen were created by some old curmungeon that just wanted to live forever; "Rise Of The Cybermen!"
***If Moffat wanted to, could he bring back the Time Lords? - Would he be able to write a plausible explanation for their return? Questionable, since their demise was fairly implausible in the first place. But since the "totally, utterly, and absolutely permanently unbreakable" Time Lock has been broken twice, once from each side by Dalek Caan and Rassilon, what price plausibility anyway?
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In fact it has no Bible at all; showrunners are not compelled to be consistent with the ideas of former showrunners. Witness the Deadly Assassin where the Time Lords were randomly changed from immortals to having only 12 regenerations for no other reason than they needed to supply the Master with some sort of motive.***
What was that all about in "The End Of Time?" Gallifrey blocks out our sun because Rassilon refuses to stay put! Please, no more!
***But Rasillon failed, and they are just hours before Hurt kills them all, they'd have to have a really big plan B.***
***Funny that less people knew of Time Lords when they were around. Now every hermit knows of the Time Lord and their Time War.***
ReplyDeleteWell at least he'll be anonymous to the Daleks for a while! Clara took care of that in "Asylum...!" The Silent thinks he's dead but for past regenerations running around!
***The oblivious-to-the-Doctor can only endure so long. Likely scenario is to have Davros re-jog their programming, otherwise it's just ludicrous being the only clueless baddie among Cybermen, Sontarans, ... and everyone and their mother. The resolution of the Silents lay more to them being outed. Cause how are they to be introduced now, even if they know they were duped? They would need to be "augemented." Given that the 2 are attempts to foster a "more free"/anonymous Doctor, they don't actually add up to much.
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...But this 6th Doctor one I had a few problems with. Everything that Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant said about their time on the show was good- but there was a lot that they didn't say. To most fans, the stand-out thing about the 6th Doctor era is how controversial it was: it really polarized viewers, a lot of people criticized it for certain episodes' violence and (likely unintended, but nonetheless disturbing) misogyny, and it was during this time that the show was put on hiatus, and Colin Baker later fired without a proper regeneration. Yet aside from a brief mention of the violence controversy (largely restricted to Steven Moffatt's introduction of Vengeance on Varos), all of this was pretty much glossed over. I had really hoped to hear Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant talk honestly about these things - particularly in regards to how they both left the series - but if they did say anything about it, it got cut. Also, it is pretty bizarre that in both Peter Davison's and Colin Baker's specials, their multi-Doctor stories (which I consider to be stand-outs in both eras) went un-mentioned. What was up with that?***
The multi-Doctor episodes have always been my favorites; "The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors," & most of all "The Two Doctors" bringing Jacqueline Pearce in as Chessene; an old fave from "Blake's 7!" It's unfortunate Colin was never really accepted, but I sorta understand it! He played the character with more arrogance, but at the same time didn't have a smidge of warmth to overlook it! He always seemed he would have been happier if he were the only sentient being around while no one else was worthy to exist! lol!
***I OBSESS about the Ninth Doctor... I know it's unhealthy. - Worst Doctor, hands down.***
You must be either new to the show or very young! The worst Doctor ever? There's only been 3 since the re-boot! I can name a couple more deserving of the title! Even though I prefer Tom Baker and the Classic Who episodes, they've done the show justice for the most part considering "it's a hard act to follow" after so many years in production!
***Best to Worst Doctor exit:
ReplyDeleteStories
1. The Caves of Androzani (5th)
2. The War Games (2nd)
3. Logopolis (4th)
4. Planet of the Spiders (3rd)
5. The Tenth Planet (1st)
6. Time and the Rani (6th)
7. The End of Time (10th)
8. The Parting of the Ways (9th)
9. TV Movie (7th)
Regeneration Scenes
1. 4th
2. 5th
3. 3rd
4. 10th
5. 1st
6. 9th
7. 7th
8. 2nd
9. 6th
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...Why is the Doctor saying "I don't want to go?" He's not dying, 10's just changing. Okay, each Doctor has a different personality, but they are meant to be the same person underneath.***
He got too emotionally involved maybe; Rose, Donna and her father! It did sound ridiculous; "I don't want to go!" What a whiner! I didn't care for that at all! I agree Davison's exit was the best produced and loved it except for the result of course; Colin Baker! It was good to see "Vengence On Varos" though the other night! I had forgotten that weird exit of Peri's they featured in the "Revisited!" Only Andric in "EarthShock" should be remembered for actually dying under the charge of the Doctor!
***I haven't been able to find any discussion of the Colin Baker episode of The Doctors Revisited on here yet, and I'm very curious what kinds of reactions people had. - I wish Colin Baker was able to play the Doctor for more seasons. I liked his portrayal. I also liked Davidson's portrayal but I was glad Baker didn't just play a variation on that and basically played the opposite.***
The multi-Doctor episodes have always been my favorites; "The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors," & most of all "The Two Doctors" bringing Jacqueline Pearce in as Chessene; an old fave from "Blake's 7!" It's unfortunate Colin was never really accepted, but I sorta understand it! He played the character with more arrogance, but at the same time didn't have a smidge of warmth to overlook it! He always seemed he would have been happier if he were the only sentient being around while no one else was worthy to exist!
***The specials are just meant as a brief overview of each Doctor to introduce new American fans to the classic series. While I would like them to be more in depth, there's already plenty of features on dvds that cover Doctor Who extensively.
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I'm so glad I didn't skip 9 even after tons of people told me to start at series 5. I wouldn't have liked the show if I had. "Dalek" is one of my favorite episodes. It was the first time seeing a Dalek and watching 9 react to seeing it was so intense. I loved the "Oncoming Storm" persona. I think it's one of 9's best moments and excellent performance by CE.***
That may all be true, but that's when I really started hating ROSE! Her empathy for the Dalek got all those people killed and it didn't stop even when it ordered her to command his "destruction!" She already proved how selfish she could be when she saved her father after begging just to see him once; then twice! She was a true waste of space except the Doctor thinks she gave him more of a conscience!
I'll give it to Donna with the story centered around Pompeii!
***I can understand that, but I don't hate Rose for it. I can understand why she did the things she did; she's only human. I don't love Rose, but I don't hate her. I will say that out of the RTD companions, she is my least favorite. Donna Noble is my absolute favorite til this day. I haven't cared for any of the companions since. I wish she had stuck around a little longer.***
***...I do not agree at all with what you say about Terry Nation, sorry. First of all I think it's a bit much when people say Nation made no contribution to the Daleks. It was awful how little credit Raymond Cusick was given. I totally agree that it's the design that gave the Daleks their success, but to say Nation contributed nothing is ridiculous. Personally I refer to Nation and Cusick as the co creators of the Daleks.
ReplyDeleteAlso its not true he delivered half finished scripts. I don't know where people have read that, but Philip Hinchcliff said that his first drafts were often his last drafts. Barry Lets and Terrence Dicks said he was great on dead lines and you could always count on Terry.
And as for "Genesis Of The Daleks" being all done to Bob Holmes, well Terrence Dicks said it went through very few changes. He said that all scripts are changed about a lot, but that 'Genesis' basically remained the same.
No one has ever said that everything in 'Genesis' was done entirely by Bob Holmes. He did contirbute to it obviously, probably made some of the dialogue a bit more edgy as that was his thing, but according to most who worked on it it was basically unchanged. Ironically Human Nature, one of the stories he gives Paul Cornell credit for was completely rewritten almost by RTD. If you love that story then thank RTD for a lot of it, more than you should thank Holmes for 'Genesis.'
I thinks its very unfair to accuse Nation of sexism. I ironically always thought Nation was a progressive writer, at least for his time. He always wrote strong female characters in all of his work.
The Dalek Invasion you have Jenny, a tough rebel girl. Barbara is also given lots more to do. She survives for a long while on her own without anyone's help, plows her way through Daleks, and comes up with one of the solutions to stopping them, turning the robo men on them. Just take a look at the film version where the female companion does nothing, everything Barbara does in the tv show is done by men in the film. In Daleks Masterplan you have Sara Kingdom and Katarina is even given a hero's death.
In 'Death and Planet,' okay the female characters are fairly bland, but to be fair so are all the male characters. I think people often shout sexist whenever there is an undeveloped female character, but not when there is an undeveloped male one.
In 'Genesis' you have the Thal woman who stops the Daleks and seals them in the bunker. Plus Sarah, gets more to do than Harry; she's the one who questions the Doctors decision not to kill the Daleks.
In 'Destiny' you have the Movellan woman plus Romana saves the planet and beats up the Movellan.
In 'survivors,' when he was writing it, the main character was a woman.
Finally its true that Nation did reuse certain ideas, but a close examination of many writers works will reveal that doesn't mean they are totally worthless. Holmes, a lot of the time has his stories about a mad man who was once powerful; Sutekh, Magnus Creel, Morbius, Sharaz, Jeck, Linx, The Master who have been crippled, weakened, in hiding: and they are often totally motivated by hatred. "All life is my enemy" and have to rely on their deranged servants; Solon, Scarman, Irongron, & Goth to free, help him, after which their servant is often disposed of in a nasty way. He also has his foes mistaken for or being the influence for Gods; Creel & Sutekh.
Even the great Moffat has a lot of things pop up in his work that are the same. Monsters that speak in rhyme's, monsters that evoke childhood fears. People meeting the Doctor out of sinc like River and Sally Sparrow, the Doctors name being a source of great power.***
***Does it annoy you that Moffatt invited everyone including Billy Piper and the Duke of Wales to be on an episode of Doctor Who; everyone except The 8 original Doctors? - I think inviting dead people to reprise their roles would be in bad taste. They're not all dead.***
ReplyDeleteSean Pertwee looks and sounds just like his father! I would have loved to see that!
***Regardless of how much he looks like his dad, he's not Jon, and as a result could only ever be a cosplayer.***
Been done already with "The Five Doctors!" I hardly think they brought Hartnell back to life to reprise his role in that! Richard Hurndall did a great job and was a bit more spry than the usual old man! A great story which I featured on my blog for years!
***You could just about get away with it in '83 on the basis that the closest most of the audience could possibly have gotten to actually seeing Hartnell in action would be to read a Target novelisation, else wait 4 or 5 years and see if the Beeb repeats them. Can't exactly do that these days, when seeing Hartnell in action is literally a case of typing his name into a search engine. Besides, it was rubbish then and it'd be rubbish now. I've got zero interest in seeing cosplayers, any more than the Tennant fans would be interested in seeing Richard Hammond filling in for him.***
Well we can't all be as fussy as you dude! It wouldn't bother me for stand-ins at all; esp. for an anniversary episode! Been watching since college in '79 and minor changes are to be expected; esp. with old actors!
***Why is Doctor Who so wildly popular? What makes you a fan? - I'm an American who started watching it on PBS in the late 80s, and though I persuaded one or two friends to watch it, I was the only person I knew who actually loved it. Twenty-five years later, it's weird enough to live a world where Doctor Who is so popular; it's even weirder when people say "I've seen this Doctor Who and I don't see what the fuss is about!" I guess it either captures your imagination or it doesn't.***
Agreed! I have always been into sci-fi and my college roommate got me to watch it in '79! It was cheesy and low budgeted, but what sci-fi series wasn't at that time! I grew up with bad classics like "Plan 9 From Outer Space!" Anything would have been a step up! Better network offerings were "V" and "V, The Final Battle;" the series beginning shortly afterwards in '85! I also started taping another British sci-fi classic in '86, "Blake's 7!" Love them both! Terry Nation is my GAWD! lol!
***Objectively, which Doctor/actor had the WORST time being accepted after the departure of the previous Doctor/actor? 3? 5? 11? Davison? Smith? I'm not as knowledgeable about the show prior to '05, so I pose this question to the more established fans.***
ReplyDeleteIt's been debated here and in other places that the only person to have trouble being accepted in the series was Colin Baker! It had a lot to do with how they were writing his character I guess, but many didn't care for his absolute arrogance at all times! He was a bit dark and supposedly was affected adversely by the change; attacking Peri in a paranoid state as well! He was never a fave of mines, but I enjoyed seeing "Vengence On Varos" during the 'Revisit!' He actually talked about the subject! Catch the repeat if you can!
***I wonder why they would change his character that way? I'll definitely check out 'VOV' and more of his episodes!***
Back then we didn't have the internet and I didn't read fan magazines or check reviews in the paper! I could only guess a different production staff with new writers were at work! It was definitely a change; esp. when an entire season was taken up by my first story arc, "The Trial Of A Time Lord!" It just dragged on and on and on! Lucky for them I was already hooked and was taping the show on VHS and Beta formats! It was more a habit than anything at the time; sorta like now! I really missed Tom and Peter! They were my first 2 Doctors and Colin was a big change; in attitude anyway!
***The thing is, Davison's Doctor was a massive wet blanket and too human and vulnerable really. The intention with Colin was to make his Doctor much closer to Hartnell's; grumpy, standoffish, rude and slightly sinister - the idea being that over the years he would mellow out and become more sympathetic in the way the First Doctor had, but when the series was put on hiatus they had to accelerate this. Colin ended up being blamed for basically everything wrong with the series at that point and was sacked.
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The 4th Doctor started the Time War in "Genesis Of The Daleks." - RTD made remarks that Classic Who encounters with the Daleks were events that lead into The War, but none were definitive catalysts of it all.
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Wasn't "Genesis of the Daleks" the start of it all? The Timelords tried to stop the Daleks by changing their past and muddled it badly. - The Time Lords ordered The Doctor to change the way The Daleks are or if that was impossible to do he was meant destroy them utterly. He had the chance to wipe them all out and couldn't do it. He felt he didn't have the right to wipe them out. He believed although the Daleks were evil, their very presence brought other races together. Which wouldn't happen if he wiped them out. So yeah, the Time Lords fired the first shot.***
They strongly suggested he take the assignment to deal with the Daleks in "Genesis ...!" Back then, there was no talk of a "Time War" and with their inception, the Daleks hadn't any way of competing with the Time Lords! I'm not even sure they knew anything about them until Davros' 2nd encounter with Tom in "Destiny Of The Daleks" with Romana!
***The thing is, Davison's Doctor was a massive wet blanket and too human and vulnerable really. The intention with Colin was to make his Doctor much closer to Hartnell's; grumpy, standoffish, rude and slightly sinister...
ReplyDelete---
Now you see I don't get why people say that was wrong of Colin Baker to make the Doctor unpredictable, unlikable, violent, arrogant, willing to kill his enemies. ...Eccelston made his Doctor violent to the point where he tried to blow the Dalek to bits with a gun, to the point where he burned Cassandra alive in the heat of the sun, even after he had defeated her. He also made the Doctor unpredictable, quite arrogant (in the unquiet dead his arrogance causes the problem). Colin Baker even wanted to dress his doctor like Eccelston, all in black.
Baker's Doctor much like Eccelston's was to change over time, and we were to see his more compassionate side thanks to the influence of his companions. Of course this was a hark back to Hartnells Doctor, who was a violent, unpredictable character who was changed by the influence of his companions. I think it an be quite unfair when people praise Eccelston for making the Doctor more violent, unlikeable, yet Eccelston gets so much praise for making the Doctor darker and edgier?
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It's not the actor's decision how their Doctor turns out in the end. I mean, yes they can influence it with their acting but the broad strokes are decided by whoever runs the show and writes the scripts. As an actor there's just so much you can do when you're getting bad material to work with. Say what you want about RTD's writing, but CE got a chunk of great scripts to work with and a fantastic character arc on top. CB didn't have that luxury and from what I hear he wasn't particularly happy with what he was given.
CE's Doctor wasn't just like that for the heck of it. He had an in-story excuse for his behaviour in form of the Time War and he was suffering from PTSD and survivor's guilt which fueled his decisions you've cited above. His darker side was shown to the audience bit by bit and mostly in circumstances that are at least half justifiable. CB's Doctor on the other hand came right after the noble sacrifice of the PD's Doctor and went on to strangle his companion which all happened pretty much out of the blue* so naturally the audience will feel alienated... Bottom line, I think CB and CE are sort of in a similar situation but CE has the advantage that he had better material to work with.
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Why, thank you! It's always a pleasure to actually have a nice discussion over here. :)
Overall I think we're pretty much on the same page - with the only difference that I like CE and Series 1 a lot more than you do. And even though some of the S1 episodes aren't exactly stellar in execution, I think the scripts have a lot of good in them or at least many well written character moments that provided CE with enough substance to work with despite all the silliness. All in all, 9 was a well rounded character, while CB got the short end of the stick in every way possible: horrible outfit, bad writers and the show going downhill as a whole that was all blamed on him - poor guy!***
***Is Galifrey still timelocked? (Name of the Doctor Spoilers) - if Galifrey is still timelocked, then how did Clara end up telling Doc 1 which Tardis to steal? I assume if the G.I. could change things in the timestream then here would be a way to get to Galifrey through the Doc's timestream. Which means it's not really time-locked anymore.
ReplyDelete---
Interesting question. The Doctor's tomb is one giant escape hatch around the destruction of Gallifrey. Even if Hurt is the one that killed the Timelords and locked the event behind a timelock, Clara most likely would have been there at Last of the Timelords offering a big plan B...
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Like any trap/prison/confinement/"time lock," there are always flaws in their supposed impregnability. River could come and go from the Stormcage when needed...even the Doctor had no real trouble escaping the Pandorica..and the Time-War era High Council was able to retro-actively set up a subconscious link with the Master that ALMOST let them escape the Time-Lock, so if the time comes that 'they' need to overcome the timelock, I'm sure a way will be formulated.***
...or perpetrated! I just wonder will they go against all the so called rules of time travel, limit of regenerations, and the like when they go to a new producer and Doctor?
***Between '63 and '75 there was no such thing as a limit on regenerations; there's no reason why there has to be one now. And DW has broken and rewritten its own rules of time travel so many times that it's impossible to even say what they're supposed to be any more.
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Favorite Two Parter - The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - After that comes The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - Empty Child/The Doctor Dances - The Satan Pit/The Impossible Planet***
Those are all good when it comes to NuWho, but to invoke Classic Who, I'd choose "Genesis Of The Daleks" and "Talons Of Weng Chiang!" Romana II and Lela were featured companions respectively back then! They didn't use duel titles back then when it came to 2 parters; technically 6 installemnts over 2 days played!
***...The Classic Series Daleks were originally descended from Dals; then they weren't but were descended from Daleks created by Davros. Then Davros started creating rival Daleks, which ended up fighting the other lot; so the re-creations in '05 and '08 were hardly groundbreaking departures.***
I think you mean the Thals who were in opposition to the Kaleds on planet Skaro if you check with the episode, "Genesis Of The Daleks!" The elites mentioned were Kaled using genetic materials to create the Daleks! They were the military branch initially reminiscent of Nazis!
***The 12th Doctor should be good looking. - Seriously? All that matters is that he's a good actor and can play a 1000 year old Time Lord.***
It never mattered how DW looked, but at the end of "Logopolis," I was impressed with the youth and looks of Davison when he regenerated from Baker! Everyone in the room where I was watching went, "welllll alright!" lol! He was a cutie!
***Everyone seems to be 'over' River Song - I don't see a huge push on the forum for more appearances by River Song. I think the general feeling is that the Finale was a proper farewell for her. The end of River Song gives the show the feeling of moving into a new era.
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That's just because some of the louder voices don't like her. Some of us think she's the best thing in it. A while back, I asked people to state their age, gender and lover/hater of River. Didn't learn a thing from the age and gender, but heard from a lot of River lovers.
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She knew the Doctor's name in "The Name of the Doctor" b/c River was the one who answered the question and opened the tomb. We just didn't hear her say it. Somewhere between "The Wedding of River Song" and "The Name of the Doctor" he told her his real name.
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I love both Alex Kingston and River Song, but I really believe her story is over now and to bring her back anymore would be very redundant and unnecessary. In series 7 finale it felt very much like "The End" for her. If Steven brings her back from that, then he has made the same mistake that Russell made with Rose after the end of 'Doomsday.'
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Never really a huge River fan. I never minded her, but I always preferred episodes she was not in. She spoiled the magic of the Doctor for me. I'm hoping now that Clara is in the picture, however unpopular as this may be, River does not reappear for a while.***
I know where you're coming from! The reason she was annoying the most was because she actually knew stuff the Doctor didn't and that's a "no-no" in my book! She knew personal stuff ahead of time b/c of the sequences of their meeting starting in "The Library!" Her over-confidence just grated on me! There's only room for one ego maniac in this series! lol!
***Am I the only one...who just hates River Song? Seriously, she is just bad. Bad character, bad acting, bad one liners. They should make a plot twist where she's a Dalek in disguise or something and kill her off. (I know it would fuck up the show, but one can always dream) Also, to the few ones still hoping the Doctor could reincarnate in a woman, River is the reason why it will never happen.***
Never been a River fan since there's only room for one ego-maniac in this show! She always seems to know more than The Doctor and that's never been permitted before even with a mathematical genius like Adric! He's supposed to be the preeminent existentialist and no one else is supposed to take over that role! lol!
***From what I've been reading, 'The Name of the Doctor' was to be River Song's last episode, or more of a way to wrap up her story, but we haven't actually had an episode yet really when she actually meets the Doctor, right? Or have I missed something? As far as I can recall she has always known about the Doctor and everything he can do, but there has never been an episode where she first meets him and learns everything. It would be great to see that in contrast to 'Silence in the Library' where she knows all about the Doctor while he knows nothing about her, now being the Doctor knows all about her while she knows nothing about him.
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Series 6 dealt with all of this. River Song's real name is Melody Pond. She is the child of Rory and Amy Williams. She was kidnapped by Madame Kovarian when she was a baby and conditioned to kill the Doctor. She then sought her parents out and was with them when they grew up. She then met the Doctor formally in the episode 'Let's Kill Hitler' when Amy and Rory summoned the Doctor to hear about his progress finding their child. She regenerated into her final incarnation after being shot by Hitler.***
I guess due to the ending, this will explain why he'll have extra regenerations after #13 in a few years! She gave up all her regenerations to bring him back as is; #11!
***For a while now, we've all known he will be getting more. Now, with the John Hurt Doctor, it will probably push them all up one, making the 12th Doctor actually the 13th and final incarnation. So as the 11th's story has focused on his death, most likely the 12th (13th, whatever) will be on getting new life. But how many should he have? Won't it get ridiculous to have a 26th, or 38th? If they give him a whole new set, it'll go up to 26. Will that just get old or not? Maybe it's nothing to worry about since maybe the show will run its course before we get too high. How many lives do you think the Doctor should have? For that matter, how do you want him to receive the new lives?
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The Doctor has no regeneration limit. No Time Lords around to enforce the limit means the Doctor can regenerate as often as he wants. - Which episode decisively establishes that limit of twelve is imposed by the Time Lords and not a biological limit?***
True enough, but they still haven't explained that he'll have more to come! Some hear just want to blow the limit off since it was part of Classic Who with no limitations discussed since the re-boot! I explain it as River giving up all her regenerations in "Let's Kill Hitler!" We'll see when the time comes to explain why he gets another handful of regenerations in a few years!
***Actually, that doesn't work. The Doctor himself said that the regenerations were "used up" in the process of reviving him, and the Doctor also performed a similar procedure on River in 'The Angels Take Manhattan' which she described as a "waste of regeneration energy," as in, a one-way transfer that heals the recipient at the cost of the "donated" regeneration energy. Plus, it would be way too cheap. She gets to bring him back to life and boost his regeneration count in exchange for... kissing him?
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Alright then let's all go along with your "logic" and end the show forever after the Doctor's thirteenth incarnation. I don't know about you but I certainly would not want to see the public outrage towards the BBC, if they did that.***
Who said it should end? I haven't cared as much since the re-boot! I watch the episodes once, collect them to tape as I've always done, but don't go back to have a marathon and watch them over and over, so a lot of this info slides by! My memory isn't what it used to be so like most here, I'll ask repetitive questions and give out answers sparingly since I'm just not as sure as the Classic Who info!
McCoy Revisited - 'Remembrance Of The Daleks' - It was great to see this 1 episode; alternatives could have been "Time And The Rani" or "Silver Menace!" McCoy was never a fave of mines with terrible overacting, bad sets, and juvenile scripts! "Remembrance" was pretty good and it was great to see it after all these years!
ReplyDelete***Ace is probably the most annoying companion ever.***
Ace didn't listen and got into trouble at times, but she wasn't helpless like Amy, Sara Jane, or Mel!
***What do you think of Tom Baker? - I'd say 'best Doctor ever.' - This is very hard to believe no one really likes him, esp. considering numerous references to previous Docs the last few years.***
Of course he is; just ask him! Unfortunately he didn't want anything to do with the show even before he left! He stayed too long and it really hurt his legacy, even though he's the preeminant Doctor; the true personification of a Time Lord! I made a scarf longer than his, and see him referenced and animated whenever Doctor Who's mentioned! He's the man; Peter Davison my next fave! Very easy on the eye as said in the "Revisited!"
***He was pretty good as The Doctor though not as good as Troughton, Pertwee, or McGann. I think he over did the silliness at times. Troughton could be silly, but not too silly. Baker did though have many of the best companions: Leela, Romana I, & Romana II.
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Sure he got silly at times, esp. under Graham Williams, but he did it for 7 years. He was given plenty of opportunities to fail, but if you add up all the successes, you have at least 3 or 4 solid years of the best that Doctor Who had to offer. If you're going to list the "best" companions and leave out Sarah Jane, it's possible our tastes are just from different planets. - He probably was in the role a wee bit too long, but Tom Baker absolutely was and still is the best Doctor ever, imo!
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The trial sequence in "Stones Of Blood" with the 2 glowing orbs of light had me squirming with embarrassment. That's when I started to suspect Tom had maybe lasted past his best-by date.***
That hardly had anything to do with Tom! All he could do was perform; special effects notwithstanding! The show had always been operating on a shoe-string with cast members bringing in stuff from their homes and garages! I think they did a brilliant job for a series initially produced for kids back in the 60's!
***I can't believe there are negative comments surrounding Tom, he was amazing in the role. Very little before and little after could touch him IMO. The energy and charisma he brought to the role didn't appear until Tennant. Everything about his era was amazing; supporting cast, scripts, etc. Comparing the likes of 'Genesis, Weng Chiang, Robots of Death, Zygons,' etc to what came later, well you can't can you really? I love Tom Baker, and if anyone has been lucky enough to meet him, he's wonderful in person too.***
I'm just as shocked so many are coming out here trying to malign Baker; esp. when it concerns scripts, special effects, and more! He had no control over that, but he made the role his for all time in my book! Maybe they can't stand that; esp. the fans of the reboot!
***The Next Doctor is Peter Capaldi - They actually went with an older Doctor for a change. I didn't think they would tbh. I have to give them credit. - I don't know much about him other than he was in a previous episode. I'm looking forward to seeing his take on the Doctor next season.***
ReplyDeleteAt first glance, I thought he was a cross between Arthur D. & Matt S.; tall, thin, sorta handsome, and older of course!
***It's a great work, now forever doomed with the distraction of Twelfth Doctor hanging around in every episode playing a guy who isn't the Twelfth Doctor. - And let me guess; "The Fires of Pompeii" is now not only double- but triple-ruined by the presence of Twelve, Amy Pond, and the Meta-Crisis Doctor.***
Gawd people, he hasn't even taken over the role and "it's all over!" Grow up please! The show's been around for 50 years, it'll survive Peter! Sheesshhh!
***Peter Capaldi's a great choice - but Steven Moffat is rubbish - First off, let me say I am a really big fan of the original series - '63 to late '80s. I never got into the new era. I thought Eccleston's accent was ridiculous. I disliked Tennant's gurning. And Matt Smith wasn't much better. The writing and stories were much weaker than the originals. Gone were the cliffhangers. I also hated the too close relationship the Doctor had with his assistants. Too much kissing. Almost bordering on having sex.
All the Doctors from Hartnell to McCoy were really good Doctors. I loved how they were avuncular figures. Sex or sexuality never raised its head - only where the assistants were concerned. And never ever was there a single thought the Doctor might have it off with his assistants; unlike recent years.
Since its return in '05, the Doctors have been way too young. Yes, Peter Davison's Doctor was just 30, but he had a superb way of not showing his youth. He really did act the part as if he was 1,000 years old. And never once was there any suggestion of love between him and his female assistants. So for me the past 8 years have been bleak. Young Doctors, sex talk, marriage, bad scripts, incoherent stories, no cliffhangers, bad acting, and awful assistants. And yet I welcome this new Doctor.
Peter looks great and he's the right age too. This should prevent any thoughts of a sexual chemistry btw his assistants - unless they introduce one who's 60 years old. My only fear is the dire Steven Moffat is still in charge. With his awful storylines, incessant boring dialogue, and stupid plots, things don't look good. Sack him and we might be okay.***
Thanks for the thoughtful post! It's hard to agree more as I'm a classic Whovian as well! Tom "IS" the Doctor as far as I'm concerned and those post talking about him as being so hated are ridiculous!
***I'm not a fan of new Who and haven't watched it for a couple of years, but Peter's an interesting choice so I'll probably tune in out of curiosity.***
That's how it is for me, but I don't watch them over and over again like I have of the classic series! I didn't remember that scene showing Micky and Martha married until the other night with repeat of "The End Of Time!" Sometimes I have to see stuff over and over for it to sink in, so I'm always full of questions about the last incarnations!
***I was in a similar situation last yr, suffering from Who withdrawal and months til Series 7 started. Big Finish is a great way to "get your fix." Personally I've really fallen in love with the Companion Chronicles range.
ReplyDeleteFor my top 5 I won't limit to 1 range:
Spare Parts - Main Range
Home Truths - Companion Chronicles
The Mahogany Murderers - CC
The Silver Turk - MR
Voyage to Venus - Special Releases
Though they are also pretty great and maybe in another post I'll give a brief break down. Using this: www.bigfinish.com/hubs/ranges/doctor-who - And starting from the top row:
Main Range: These are monthly releases, so far they've only used Doctors 5-8.
The Light at the End: It's their 50th Anniv. extravaganza.
Fourth Doctor Adventures: These are single disc, 2 part stories.
Bonus Releases: Some subscription options to the Main range came with exclusive/bonus stories. Most can be bought individually but some still require a subscription to get them.
Eighth Doctor Adventures: For series 1-4 these are also single disc releases, but with one episode per disc. They were influenced by the '05 TV series. Last year (2012) saw the release of a 4 story box set "Dark Eyes."
The Companion Chronicles: Mostly single disc, 2 part stories. They are stories narrated by the companions. They were originally a way to have stories with Doctors 1-4 (who couldn't [or in Tom Baker's case wouldn't] do the Main Range). However as the range grew it not only included Docs 5-8, but told stories that couldn't be told as effectively with a full cast. Its 8th and final series started in July and will finish in June '14.
Destiny of the Doctor: Co-produced with AudioGo this an anniversary series. Each month's release is a "talking book" that recaptures the era of the appropriate Doctor (i.e. Jan. = 1st Doctor). The stories work on their own, but there is an underlying arc, that will pay off (so they say) in Nov.
The Early Adventures: Coming '14 the website says "An array of brand new 4-part stories set during the early days of Doctor Who, told through narration and a full cast of actors, including the surviving leads who reprise their original roles. The black and white era of Doctor Who returns on audio!"
The Lost Stories: These are stories that almost got made on TV, but were abandoned for one reason or another. Example: Series 1 attempts to recreate the lost Sn 23, it even includes 3 of the stories originally slated for Sn 23. The 4th and final series starts next month.
Phillip Hinchcliffe Presents: A box set coming next year. The web site says "a box set of two brand new audio adventures that will evoke the tone of the series from his era. The first story in the set will be an epic 6-parter set in Victorian London, adapted by Marc Platt (Ghost Light), which will be paired with a 4-parter."
Short Trips: 4 releases, an audio continuation of the Short Trips book series they used to have. There are 8 short stories (1 per Doc) per release.
Special Releases: Was the umbrella heading given to 5 releases from late last year. UNIT Dominion a box set featuring the 7th Doctor and UNIT. Love and War a full cast audio adaptation of Paul Cornell's 1992 New Adventure. Dark Eyes mentioned earlier. Voyage to Venus & Voyage to the New World the 6th Doctor with Jago & Litefoot.
The Stage Plays. Audio adaptations of three Doctor Who related stage plays. The Curse of the Daleks, The Seven Keys to Doomsday, The Ultimate Adventure.
Unbound: 8 "what if" stories meaning they specifically aren't "canon" but alternatives. Such as, "What if the Doctor and Susan never left Gallifrey?"
Excelis: A mini-series tracing the rise and fall of the titular city. 4 stories, one each for the 5th, 6th, and 7th Doctors and the final one with Bernice Summerfield.
Doctor Who AudioGo: This is just stuff made by AudioGo but sold through the Big Finish web site so don't worry about those yet.***
***The biggest surprise for me...was seeing how hot Bonnie Langford is these days during the "Revisted." Damn, I did *not* expect that! I agree, both her and Janet Fielding. But what happenend to Katy Manning?***
ReplyDeleteShe's just old; I think 66! When I saw the name, I had thought she was one of many from the series that had died of cancer! There was some grumbling they may have been exposed to something on the set so many had gone down in the last couple years including Mary Tamm!
***I like Matt Smith. I think it's a shame he's not getting another season. - I don't and can't understand all that Matt Smith hate-orade going on now. It sounds like all that hate rant before Matt's 1st episode (the 11th Hour) and all that hate rant towad David Tennant after he left the role.
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I don't hate Matt Smith. I'll miss him, he was a great Doctor. It's unfortunate that his last series has ruined by some pretty dodgy episode-writing. Very much looking forward to Peter Capaldi now though.***
He had to go sooner or later! I had been hearing he wanted to move to Hollywood and make a go of it! Being in this lone part was terribly limiting with him being unable to work in anything else, so I wasn't surprised or feeling betrayed by his leaving!
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All the past Doctors were good, but TOM BAKER is "THE DOCTOR!" Ask him and he'll tell you right off! lol!
***It's difficult to argue with that as Tom Baker is certainly the most iconic of all the Docs, but Pertwee I do think comes very close. Pertwee had a certain something about him that seemed to embody what the Doctor should be which was a cross betweeen a university professor and James Bond, a man of action. The smoking jackets and Old Bessie were cool as well.
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I think I've read somewhere that it has been stated or implied that the First Doctor we've seen wasn't the first.***
The first time I heard that was evidenced with episode "The Brain Of Morbius!" The Doctor was supposedly 'mind wrestling' with Morbius who's brain had been transplanted into some creation of a scientist! He was ranting, supposedly taking the Doctor "back," but most think those pictures may have belonged to past reincarnations of Morbius, not the Doctor!
***While The Doctor himself has said that the first version we see is the first, the new show may have thown that out the window. While I think The Doctor was trying to drag him down with a trick, the only time in classic that even hinted the first was not the first was Brain of Morbius part 4. - We got that evidence in "Brain Of Morbius," but then remember the 7th Doctor in "Time And The Rani" said he was in his #7 persona? Sylvester McCoy was 7, Colin Baker was 6, Peter Davison 5, Tom Baker 4, Jon Pertwee 3, Troughton 2nd, and the 1st Doctor was William Hartnell.
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William Hartnell was the first, and it was confirmed in 'The Five Doctors' when Richard Hurndall as the 1st Doctor told Tegan how he was "the original," though whether or not the other faces were younger versions of the First or Morbius is debatable (I vote they are Morbius.)***
***How and when were you introduced to Doctor Who? What were your intial thoughts on the series?***
ReplyDeleteI had always been a fan of sciene fiction! My college roommate told me about DW and I gave it a try in '79! I had seen the 2 Cushing/Daleks movies as a kid and hadn't connected them until later! I started taping them as soon as I bought my 1st Beta format vcr in '81, starting w/ "Destiny Of The Daleks!" After "Logopolis," they went back to "Robot" and got out all of Tom Baker! After that they gave us a sampling of Hartnell, Toughton, & Pertwee before starting Davison episodes here in Chgo!
***Maybe they should do an episode where the Master and the Daleks go into an uneasy alliance and try to defeat the Doctor and the Daleks turn on the Master; then Davros is leading the Daleks and the Master, the Doctor, Davros and the Daleks are in a 4 way battle.***
You mean like the classic "BattleStar Galactica" where Baltar is given command of a Death Star by the Imperious Leader, packed with Cylons and ships to hunt down the last remaining humans? It's so Doctor Whovian with a mix of Star Wars!
***Biggest waste of a regeneration? Which of these would you consider the bigger waste of one of the Doctor's limited lives?
- 6th Doctor/Colin Baker having his run cut short and plagued with a hiatus and the whole Eric Saward thing.
- 7th Doctor/Sylvester McCoy having the show canned on his watch and thus not getting a chance to really continue in his 'darker' portrayal of the Doctor and finish his run on the show.
- 8th Doctor/Paul McGann getting 1 tv movie and then never being asked to do the tv series.
- 9th Doctor/Chris Eccleston only getting 1 season and having it be more concentrated on Rose.
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Definitely #8 w/ #9 a runner up. I liked McGann's Doctor and loved the Tardis console room in the tv movie. It was a crime that it didn't go to series. Eccleston got saddled with farting aliens and Rose's family melodrama, so I can't blame him for leaving.***
Chris also "wanted out!" Maybe he didn't want to be typecast! Unlike many of the other Doctors, he was a well established movie actor! Maybe he thought the show wouldn't "take" and would be cancelled after just a season! Just weird that he accepted the position, knowing the legacy it entailed! He's been running from it as long as I've been watching! Not even sure he'll acknowledge doing the show if he could help it! I've only seen this kind of animus from one other Doctor and that's "The" Doctor, Tom Baker! There was a lot of resentment those last years and he hadn't spoken well of the show until recently as far as I can tell being from the States! IF I'm wrong, someone from the Isles should let me know! This is my interpretation with what little I've heard of the "behind the scenes!"
***The very early Cybermen looked far more creepy and alien, while the 80s Cybermen looked far more commanding. Id like to see them both back w/ the old designs uses as the 'troops.' The Moff also ruined the Daleks when he re-designed them to the bloated rainbow gang.***
ReplyDeleteAfter all the changes over the years, it never occurred to me; just accepted it like a good Whovian would! lol! It is funny how emotional they can be when they're supposed to have none! Frustration and exasperation are the last thing that should be coming out of the leader of the Cybermen! Too weird!
***I don't recall the leader being emotional at all. But at least they weren't just blowing up the first thing that moved. That may work for some aliens, but cybermen should be more intelligent and calculated. They're not Daleks.***
While on the TARDIS, the ship that was carrying Adric went back in time! The leader was "beside" himself! You just couldn't see the physical traits that would occur on a human face because he was a machine! He was PO'd; believe me! BTW, Adric getting knocked off like that still affects me after all these years! That's not supposed to happen to a regular companion; maybe a temp. like the stewardess in "Midnight" or Kylie Minogue in "Voyage Of The Damned!"
*** - http://time-lord-rassilon.deviantart.com/art/Doctor-Who-Characters-1-165815176 -
Are you talking about Donna? If so, she's in just this one episode and then you get Martha. But Donna comes back in season 4 and is awesome. A fantastic companion. This coming from a big Rose fan. Rose is still my favorite companion. Donna comes in second.***
Of all the companions, I had such a problem with Rose; selfish, unsympathetic at times, greedy, with a true lack of common sense! It has to be all about her and how she feels! Common sense would say you can't "save your dad" or touch yourself as a baby! She was responsible for so many deaths in "Dalek" while feeling sorry for a machine! She without a doubt was one of the worst companions ever in my book! She didn't even care to break it off with Mickey, stringing him along and actually feeling jealousy when she heard he went out with another girl! She was truly pathetic! Out of the re-boot, only Martha has behaved with class, was a true professional, and doing what she could to help people at all times! It was never about just her!
***DALEKS-ARE-NOT-MACH-EEENS! RETRACT! RETRACT!! RE-TRAAAACT!!***
No matter how much organic material is inside that pepper shaker, I'll still call them machines since they believe the only way for them to survive is to destroy all other living creatures! That's more machine than anything else to me! I'm fully aware of the workings, watching the show for well over 30 years, and taping them all! When you believe your only way to live is to annihilate everything else like Sutekh, Cybermen, & Daleks, you're a freakin' machine to me! Get over it!
***Did you think Matt Smith was going to stay until Series 7? - He'll be doing the Xmas special. Can you imagine the backlash that would arise if it turned out that they misled fans into thinking that they would get 2 more Matt episodes when in reality they would only get one; one episode in which Matt has to share the spotlight with David Tennant, Billie Piper, and John freaking Hurt? Say what you will about Moffat and co., they aren't that stupid. The Xmas special begins filming before the 50th airs, so trying to surprise us with a shock regeneration wouldn't work. And the 50th special already has enough ground to cover w/o trying to cram in a regeneration plot as well.***
ReplyDeleteIt's taking less and less time to recover from a regeneration! What's with that? Pretty soon he'll just twitch his nose like Samantha on "Bewitched" and go from there! lol!
***Really enjoying The "Power of the Daleks" - I'm halfway through the story and it's striking just how brilliant Patrick Troughton is, right from the off, how subtle and layered his performance is – it's hard to believe he was carrying the programm's first changeover with no precedent.***
Troughton was one of the true, established actors out there going back decades! I've seen him in classic fair and other programs alike; powerful, knowledgeable, and quite commanding! Nothing new for him to do so well with DW! I've only seen him in a few classic episodes of DW, but I can understand why he was so popular! I loved his turn with #6 in "The Two Doctors" bringing back his old companion and my namesake, Jamie! It was as if he never left, even though it had been years! He was also great in "The Five Doctors" with Pertwee, Davison, and William Hartnell replacement, Richard Hurndall!
***Why Wasn't Paul McGann in His Doctor Revisited? - I wasn't surprised b/c some fans are very hostile towards him. ...I'm not sure when the Revisited specials were filmed to be able to compare it to what he's been filming recently. What about the Dream Lord?***
I wasn't hostile, but I wasn't accepting of McGann either! It was a tv movie for Gawd-sake! It would be like dragging Peter Cushing from the grave to give us a few words! To me, he just wasn't a real "Doctor;" a true waste of a regeneration! Sorry! - I need to watch an episode a few times for elements to sink in and I haven't given the reboot enough of my time to know exactly what was going on in that particular episode! I think I've gone down this rode before and someone posted that part of his character came from The Doctor himself; sorta like the Valeyard in "TOATL!" Whatever!
***People say this to his face at conventions. This is a great example of the reason I think that McGann didn't appear in his special. I know you don't think of this as hostile, but it really is. Aside from the actors in parodies, if you should consider any Doctor a waste of a regeneration it should be Eccleston, he only got 13 episodes and 6 books.***
I think Ec took the role because he didn't think the reboot would fly! He's an established actor who didn't want to be typecast and left prematurely!
***Doctors you twin with Bond...I alway thought Eccleston to be like Dalton, should have stayed around longer than he did. McGann is obviously Lazenby and Tennant is Brosnan...***
IIRC Dalton was only selected for those 2 Bond films in the 80's b/c Pierce was being held hostage by his contract to do "Remington Steel!" It was their option and they exercized it just to hose the franchise IMO!
***And thank goodness they did. Most people who are educated in Bond recognize that Dalton was truer in spirit to the Bond character than Brosnan or Moore. Not that they were any less Bond, but the character as created was more like Connery or Dalton. Dalton was the best thing to happen to the Bond series after the caricature of the later Moore years.***
***I think it was a stupid idea to get rid of Gallifrey and the Time Lords. What advantage is there in that? They could just ignore them instead if they didn't want them in any stories. No sense in closing doors. The new series also never explained how the Doctor could be the last Time Lord if Romana is still in E-Space.
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Romana is not still in E-Space shortly after the events of 'TOATL,' she finished her mission there returned to Gallifrey and became President.***
You're joking? I may have heard it before, but it didn't sink in! I can't picture the scenerio that placed her in that position! As far as I knew, The Dcctor was still Lord President in absentia and only Time Lords sat "in his stead;" Flavia was one of them (from "The Five Doctors")! In "Remembrance OF The Daleks," McCoy even used the title in his warning to Davros!
***Do you have any knowledge outside of tv? Even on tele, Shada w/ the 8th had Romana (Ward) as President. She had been President thru 7th and 8th (Doctor) incarnations. She was into her 3rd for ancestor cell. - Non-TV Doctor Who stories are not presently seen as canon.***
Well even tv DW is having problems with "canon!" It started years ago! I remember in "Earthshock;" supposedly a gun couldn't be fired inside the TARDIS! Needless to say we all remember a Cyberman damaged the console and The Doctor couldn't save Adric! Thirteen incarnations is supposed to be canon, but they'll have to come up with a reason to have more regenerations if the series is to continue in a few years! I can go on, but you get the idea!
***"The fast-moving circus show" 'WHO' for the ADD generation. I was watching an old Pertwee episode and he was reprogramming a computer to stop a system overload. In new Who, the Doctor would just wave his magic wand, I mean sonic screwdriver to do the same thing.***
Yep, the "SONIC SCREWDriver" is magical; can monitor and heal the sick, control alien devices from another room, etc, etc, etc! lol!
***So much of the series has replaced science with magic. While it's true that the original series sometimes played a bit fast and loose with science, at least they tried/went through the motions. In the new series ... anything goes. Magic sonic screwdriver, magic paper, the Doctor hanging out the door of the Tardis in flight, magic pocket watches, magic fireplaces, magic houses.***
Well "magic" can explain a lot so they can get in and get out fast in these lame plotlines! lol!
***How'd they explain The Master in the TV movie; Or did they bother? - After the Master was executed by the Daleks, the Doctor was charged with taking his remains back to Gallifrey. On the journey, he took on some weird translucent snake-like form, escaped the Doctor's TARDIS and slithered down Eric Roberts' throat while he slept, presumably murdering him from the inside (classic Doctor Who) and possessing his body. The snake wasn't explained in the movie, but most people seem to think the Master ingested some rare kind of alien-symbiote that carried his consciousness after the death of his body.***
They keep coming up with new reasons the Master is still running around all the time; even the creation and observance of an ancient religion he established to bring him back from the ashes! So lame! That one was nauseating; talk about paranoia and self perpetuation issues!
***Wasn't the Masters plan to declare war on the Universe? He probably would of just blown up one of the planets Davros needed for the reality bomb.***
ReplyDeleteIt finally sunk in that The Master was totally insane in "Logopolis" when he caused so much distruction; includ. the fading away of Nyssa's home planet of Traken! The Doctor is trying to stop the collapse of other planets and galaxies and there's The Master trying to invoke power over the universe! I was done with him as a legitimate enemy then! When you're that insane, you think you're invulnerable, which is why The Doctor always wins in the end! Same with Davros! When you're so sure of yourself, you'll get bitten in the ass sooner or later, even if it takes a year as in "Last of the Time Lords!"
***To me, this is where The Master went wrong. Delgado's Master was not insane by any means. He was an opportunist, willing to exploit anyone and everyone in order to better his goals. He was cunning, evil and manipulative, but NOT insane.***
I think the problem by that time was that The Master had gone past a legitimate cycle in that last regeneration and his mind was scrambled! It was too late even by taking over the body of Nyssa's father!
***Those are storyline explanations. I'm speaking of the decision that the writers in Baker's era made to make the character a panto villain. The Master's regeneration cycle was 1st referenced in the Baker era, no?
This showed that the production teams after Letts/Dicks never really understood what made The Master so amazing in the Pertwee era. Delgado's Master was extremely logical and calculating. That was so much more entertaining than the psychotic madman that the character became from the Baker era on.
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12 Regenerations is canon, but there are ways around it. In "The Five Doctors" the Master was offered a new cycle of regenerations in exchange for rescuing the Doctor. They could obviously have #13 come across another regeneration cycle somehow to keep the show going.***
You are correct! After Delgado died in a car crash, The Master wasn't referenced again until Baker went back to Gallifrey getting a mental message of the President's assassination; "The Deadly Assassin" I think! The Master was trying to get ahold of the Sash of Rassilon to open a power source to extend his life; The Eye attach to the Matrix! He was the incarnation that looked like a burn victim!
***Any Chance of a Tom Baker Sighting in 50th? Just like that utterly superfluous "The Five Doctors" rubbish.***
Multi-Doctor episodes are the best IMO! They illicit emotions unlike other episodes due to memories and feelings about the show that can't be matched; at least in me! Those couple episodes with Sarah Jane Smith should tell you all you need to know; esp. since we all are aware of her passing recently! It also educates neophites and new viewers of the series, giving them a taste of Classic Who! I think it's possible Tom might be seen or heard from since he's finally gotten over his resentment! I was shocked that he did the "Revisits" since he was so adament in not doing "The Five Doctors for the 20th anniversary! He's still as bombastic as ever and believes rightly so that "he's" the true Doctor!
***Nah, 50th is only going to celebrate the revival. - Then it would really be more of an 8th anniversary special. All living Doctors should be in this episode. Tom Baker played the Doctor for 7 years! And he certainly seemed very happy to talk about it in the Revisited special. I can't imagine why they'd refer to it as a 50th anniversary special w/o a nod to the original Doctors? Actually, more than a nod...a real appearance. There's a reason why Liz Salden's appearance in the new series was so well received: it ties the 2 series nicely together.***
***So in light of Matt's head shaving I ask this question... I know Matt will wear a wig, but has there been a Doctor in his run to drastically alter his appearance; IE shaving their head, that they even changed it on the show?***
ReplyDeleteOutside of a costume changes, "no!" Baker was on so long he went through minor changes; hair length, scarf, & jacket! That's about it; IMO!
***Rose was written as an equal character with the Doctor. Not many, if any of the classic series' companions could claim equal billing with the Doctor character. They were all mostly secondary characters. Rose was as much the star as Eccleston/Tennant during her time on the show. That's probably why some hated her. I don't think Martha or Donna could even claim that.***
There's no way I would accept any reasons to get over my animus of Rose! I found her selfish, jealous, and when she was sympathetic as in "Dalek," it cost a lot of lives! She had few if any redeeming values IMO! She wouldn't even release Mickey from her clutches even though she had eyes only for The Doctor! She had the nerve to be upset he was going out with another girl! Then there's how stupid she could be; touching her "baby self" causing more calamities! I just never cared for her!
***While I do agree with you for the most part, I will say that it wasn't her decision to make contact with her younger self. That was all on Pete.***
Who did she think the kid was when she was introduced to her mother by Pete? I would have run so I wouldn't be breathing the same air as my younger self! It's just logical only bad things could happen crossing your own path; except if you're a Time Lord of course! lol! Thanks for agreeing; so few do, telling me "it's a tv show! Get over it!"
***Rose is truly one of the best written female characters in tv. W/o her, I'm not sure I would have been interested in Doctor Who. A companion that is not an equal would have turned me off. YES, Rose did have flaws and thank goodness for that. I'm so sick of these idealized female characters running around (as if women are never jealous for one thing) that are "strong" (as in kick butt) rather than equal to the male characters with their imperfections and weaknesses.
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Everything you might want to point out as bad personality traits are almost certainly true; and that is glorious! Here we have a real person as a companion! Who hasn't known a Rose in their life? I've known several. Hell, I agree: Rose could be down-right ugly at times. Look at "School Reunion". Her first interactions with Sarah Jane had me almost hating her (for I grew up, like so many, loving Sarah Jane). And isn't that a tribute to Billie Piper though? To so effectively pull off the ugliness inside Rose, as well as her better nature? Frankly, I'd have given her a BAFTA just for that scene alone.***
***A season of classics to mark the anniversary? - We've been getting this with The 'Doctors Revisted' on BBCA. Surprised to hear that this isn't being shown on the other side of the Atlantic. Not entirely happy with the choice of episodes though. Tom Baker episode should have been "Genesis of the Daleks."***
ReplyDeleteFunny, I liked "Pyramids Of Mars" very much and had a feeling they'd go there! "Genesis.." was just too long; a serial 2 parter (techn. 6)! It would have taken hours with the commercials they wanted to insert! Maybe "Destiny.." would have fit more into the time slot and you'd still get a look at Davros from that era! The banter with Baker was still classic; even more so since they knew each other already!
***River Song RUINED the Tardis Whoosh for me FOREVER - Ever since she suggested it makes the famous noise because the Doctor leaves the brakes on.
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You realize that she was just teasing him, correct?***
I think she was just joking too b/c I'm sure the Master's TARDIS made the same sounds when materializing as well!
***Not only did the Master's and everyone else's TARDIS make the noise, but even when it was being piloted by Vortex!Rose in The "Parting Of The Ways" and River herself in "Let's Kill Hitler," it made the noise. And the TARDIS herself didn't take issue with the noise in The "Doctor's Wife;" she even used it to identify herself. Instead, she nagged him about opening the doors the wrong way (even though he doesn't).***
I think when River landed in the TARDIS, she was able to do a quick/hard landing where there was no sound which is confusing folks!
***In the Classic Series the Translation ability still worked when the TARDIS was 1000's of years away in Time and millions of miles in Space never mind the South Pole.***
It's just one of many scenerios we have to accept as loyal viewers! There are so many canons that have been overlooked, ignored, or exaggerated! It happens!
***River's story arc - So is River Song's story arc over now that Smith's time is done. As a time traveller, don't you think she would have run across more than just 10 & 11's adventures? Same goes with Captain Jack. - We've seen her birth, childhood, life, wedding, married life, death of her parents and her own death, plus some time as a ghost.***
I think and hope "she's done!" She meets the Doctor in reverse order so by having her last contact in "The Library" with Tennant, there should be no way they can meet again; at least on screen! I suppose they can fudge a reason, but it won't be as logical IMO!
***No she doesn't. There would be no need for her and the Doctor to compare diaries if that was the case b/c everything in her diary would not be in the Doctors and Vice versa. Plus did you not see The Name of the Doctor that was (for now) the last contact with the Doctor from her PoV, not "The Library" with Doc 10.***
I'm speaking of the last contact she had before she died and was preserved in the matrix of "The library" computer! I know what you're talking about, but you're not paying attention! When she met Tennant, she wasn't even sure who he was until he mentioned it! She told him she knew him at the end, but he wasn't aware of who she was! That's why I say they met in reverse order! You can't go by the order of the episode; "wake up and understand what I'm saying!" Anyone else (help me out)?
***Carole Ann Ford says Doctor Who 'definitely' destroyed her career - The 72-yo, who is best-known for her role as Susan Foreman in the BBC sci-fi tv series says she wished she had never taken the job and been the 1st Doctor Who girl. “I must say that when I left Doctor Who, I was filled with… not loathing, but I was incredibly annoyed b/c I wanted to do more tv and films and the only thing that people could ever see me in was a recreation of what I had done; a Susan clone or some kind of weird teenager," Ford told the Daily Telegraph. "I wanted to do work that would disconnect me from Doctor Who. That is a very difficult thing to accomplish, as many other actors who have played the companions have found out.”
ReplyDeleteBeing "typecast" is always a danger; esp. with an iconic role! I prefer to believe she just wasn't very good! She was young and should have been able to move on if she really tried! I'd blame her agent more! Maybe he was just bad at his job! Most Doctors went on to do bigger and better things! I'm watching Peter Davison on the British version of "Law & Order" even though I know what will happen! Freema/Martha was on it as well!
***Is there a possiblity that Susan Foreman is alive? - We have been waiting 50 years for him to go back. I'm not holding my breath, but I do hope it a well kept secret for the 50th. Carole Ann Ford isn't getting any younger, but is at present fit to do it. The Doctor left Susan for her own good, but looking back on it, it wasn't his decision to make and was effectively him kicking his granddaughter out the house and never even seeing her again.***
If the Doctor thought all the Time Lords were dead, why did he acknowledge that distress call in "The Doctor's Wife?" He was like a kid and so happy at the time!
***Good question. The show contradicts itself so often that I often don't bother trying to shoehorn everything into continuity! If he had hitherto believed that all Time Lords were dead, he might have thought to himself "wow, there's one left somehow, and they need help." It depends how reliable he, himself, thinks the psychic-link-whatchamacallit is; if he KNOWS there are no more Time Lords, he would answer the distress call KNOWING that it wasn't a real Time Lord who sent it. If he THINKS there are none ..he will be hoping he's wrong.***
I guess you can rationalize it was an alternate universe! I can only remember The Doctor giving instructions to that entity of getting back by dropping rooms off the TARDIS! Continuity means nothing; true enough!
***River's Chronology - You'd think I have figured this out by now, but I just want to make sure. I know that "Let's Kill Hitler" is 1st and "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead" followed by "The Name of the Doctor" are the final 2, but how about in between?***
***A Good Man Goes To War - As a baby
ReplyDeleteThe Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - As a little girl
Let's Kill Hitler - as Mels, then as River
Closing Time - As young River being recaptured by the Silence
The Wedding of River Song - As Young River in the spacesuit, as amalgamation River in the 5:02 Universe
First Night - As the freshly imprisoned young River
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - As the River who knows what she is
Flesh and Stone/Time and Angels - As River who's done the Pandorica
The Wedding of River Song - As River who leaves the Byzantium to tell Amy and Rory the Doctor is still alive
Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon (Tech. this could come anywhere, but since she's had a lot of adventures with the Doctor, I think it's an older River) as the River who witnesses herself killing the Doctor and helping to solve the mystery of the Silents
When a Good Man Goes to War - As the River who scolds the Doctor
First Night/Last Night - as the River who's being chased by Sontarans (Again, hard to place, but very likely)
When a Good Man Goes to War - As the River who Rory meets in the beginning
Angels Take Manhattan - As Professor River Song who knows the Doctor very well
Last Night - As the River who's being taken on her final date by an older version of the Doctor
Library/Forest - As the River that dies :P
Name of the Doctor: :D
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Your top 5 favourite TARDIS teams:
1. 11 & The Ponds: I love the way Amy and Rory were nearly like a family for him. They just fit so well and had so much fun together.
2. 1 & Ian and Barbara: I love Ian and Barbara, they were so well written. They often questioned the Doctor's actions and morals and helped him become a warmer, friendlier character.
3. 2 & Jamie and Zoe: 2 and Jamie had brilliant chemistry and w/ the addition of Zoe I think they really made a perfect team.
4. 4 & Harry and Sarah Jane: I'm a big fan of Harry even though he didn't stay very long. His old fashionedness, 4's wackiness and Sarah Jane's strong will made them a joy to watch.
5. 5 & Tegan and Turlough: I loved it b/c each character was so different. It was fun to see the interaction btw them and how they learned to get used to each other.
So, what are your favourite teams?***
Unfortunately, I don't get into the emotional side of having companions! I prefer to have pals that are helpful and can do more than get into trouble and cause havoc like Rose! I like professionals more like Martha who was a Doctor, Romana, Nyssa, and Cap. Jack who could actually work on the TARDIS, and Turlough and Adric who could think for themselves!
1) 4 & Romana and Adric
2) 5 & Nyssa and Adric w/ Tegan
3) 7 & Ace
4) 10 & Martha
5) 11 & Clara
***Thank you! I had a look at your blog, I totally agree with some of your comments (about Delta & The Bannerman, ie.) and I never knew that Davison was in 'All Creatures Great and Small' and Doctor Who at the same time!
ReplyDeleteI didn't notice that when I wrote my post, but I'm more on the emotional side. But I also love companions that can actually be useful! That's why Liz Shaw is one my favorite companions. Romana, Nyssa, Ace, Captain Jack, and Turlough are some of my favorites too!
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What did we get for the 25th anniversary except the 5 (4) Doctors? - Just looked it up:
10th Anniversary nothing
15th "Androids Of Tara" (2 days later)
20th "5 Doctors" at least in the USA; UK got it 2 days later
25th "Silver Nemesis" started
30th no new who episode on tv since '89, but a tv docum. more than 30 yrs in the TARDIS
35th nothing since tv movie in '96
40th nothing since tv movie '96
45th nothing since "Journeys End," end of series 4 in july
50th yet to be seen, but Day of the Doctor (75 min spec.) as well as "An Adventure In Space and Time;" 90 min. special about DW and multiple other shows across BBC1,2,3, & 4
It seems to me the BBC are doing more for this anniversary than they ever have for any other. Yet all we have is complaints.***
I loved "The 5 Doctors" and you can't go wrong with Cybermen and Daleks for the other anniversaries! Some people are just too hard to please I guess! 8-)
***Old series vs. New series: Which is better and why? They actually weren't afraid to get rid of the companions. In the new series they would make it so they would be able to return and I think Moffat had to kill Amy and Rory to stop himself from just keeping them. In the classic there was time for character development and bettering of plot. ...There are tributes to the 5th Doctor, but if Moffat really wants to do so for Peter davison's Doctor, then he should just do a two-parter or three parter where the new Doctor and 5th meet. Even the worse classic stories like "Kinda," Time And The Rani," "Timelash," "Underworld," & "Leisure Hive" have better story than the modern ones that were worse.***
So many people freaked out when Adric was killed, they were trying to avoid more controversy! lol! That ending with Peri was quite lame, but you could say that about a # of the Colin Baker episodes!
***I thought they realized that killing another companion would be too soon since the last one. It would only come off as a shock tactic and rip-off. I hated Adric so much that I didn't feel shocked or sad when he went, just relieved that I would never see him again. They tried so hard to make him sympathetic in that episode that I knew something was going to happen to him.
I found several of the Colin Baker eps very amusing, but my problem with most of the DW serials I've seen is that they seem so formulaic. So far everything I've watched is the bad guy/monster of the week with a lot of capturing and escaping. The "Twin Dilemma" was a terribly weak start for the 6th Doctor; those twins were painful to watch. The ep I found most awful though was "Terror Of The Vervoids;" it was just as uninspired as "Black Orchid.?***
***Episodes you skip - I don't usually skip full episodes. I just skip parts I have dubbed 'cringe worthy.' The only parts I can recall right now are: The fluctuating in Aliens of London/World War III when Cassandra enters the Doctor's body and dances around in New Earth, most of the absorbaloff parts from "Love and Monster," and even though the season 3 finale is my fave episodes besides "End of Time," I have my cringe worthy moments I MUST skip in those as well: funny/not funny.***
ReplyDeleteI agree about just skipping 'parts' of NuWho! When it comes to Classic Who, I haven't watched "Trial Of A Time Lord" since I taped it almost 30 years ago! One of these days I need to pull out the 2 sub-episodes within it, including "Mindwarp!" I can't even remember what it was about! The Colin Baker era just wasn't my fave even though I loved the revisited ep. of "Vengeance on Varos" a couple months ago!
***Glad you agree. I understand the Colin Baker era not being your fave and I know many people won't agree with me, but I rather enjoyed "Trial of a Timelord." There were parts of it that I still skip over now that you mention it, but ultimately, I really enjoyed it. Mostly the Valeyard and the Doctor's squabbling and the Master's scenes are what make it for me.***
Even though I don't rememeber it, I thought I read that Romana became The President on Gallifrey!
***She did in the books. I think she was even President in one of them I actually read: "Blood Harvest."***
That's probably why I didn't remember seeing it! I only read the older novels and still haven't watched or listened to the episodes put to disc! I couldn't get through "Shada" on YouTube; sorry! Hard to accept since it wasn't part of actual telecast on BBC or PBS here in the States!
***The BF audio of Shada (which was the webcast starring McGann as D8) is easy to listen to. It's almost akin to Douglas Adams' H2G2 series. The script is based on many versions of Shada Douglas had written so it might not be the same as the telecast. From the start of the play Romana is described as the President.
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Favourite guest performances? - Timothy Dalton.***
I'm still trying to figure out how Rassilon was running around trying to come up with ways to save Gallifrey? At least we got to see the Doctor's Mum! lol!
***Timothy Dalton gets an honorable mention, as his narration was my favorite part of 'End of Time.'
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Is 'Doctor Who' ever said? - I think he was also called 'Doctor Who' in the credits of the '05 series, but I might be wrong and I'm almost 100% sure he was never called that within an actual story from the revamped series.***
You're kidding right? It's said all the time by people who meet him for the 1st time! He says he's the Doctor and they always ask "Doctor Who?"
***Why does everyone hate River Song? - She is sort of arrogant and overconfident!***
Definitely! There's only room for one ego-maniac and that should be The Doctor and no one else! Sorry!
***Bingo!***
***Episodes you skip - If you are skipping 'Gridlock' and 'Asylum Of The Daleks' I will disagree.***
ReplyDeleteI don't agree about "Gridlock" and "Asylum Of The Daleks" either! Few if any Dalek episodes are worth skipping! Even though I'm no fan of McCoy's, "Remembrance Of The Daleks" was definitely worth seeing and collecting!
***Is a 7 year run as the Doctor possible any more? Does anyone want a Doctor to stay for more than 3 years? Seven may be too long, but I would like to see the next Doctor make 5 series at least.
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I have a feeling the show won't last 7 more years. I've seen the 50th trailer. I know how bad it looks. Heart breaking in its own way, my thoughts are with the long time fans who waited for it.***
I have no expectations really! I just feel fortunate that anything is being produced! It was such a shock to my senses that it was brought back at all! No other program has done such a thing that I can remember; esp. after almost 20 years on haitus! It would be nice to stick to the formula of having multiple Doctors, but from what I've read, only Tennant has signed on! It could be only a quick cameo or 2 like Hartnell in "The Three Doctors!" I'm patient and will wait before condemning or proclaiming success!
***I know, I KNOW I shouldn't whine, but show us a trailer already! - To be honest I don't give a flying toss about the trailer, I'm far more interested in the full episode. I also want to be surprised and trailers tend to give too much away sometimes. We tend to know everything before we've even seen it.***
I also am patient enough to wait without needing to see even a "still" of the episode! Surprise is good! I don't even pay that much attention to speculation on it; plenty of it here that's for sure!
***I can understand why people are starting to get a bit fed up about the lack of a trailer... Or anything really. Me personally, I would rather hold off on knowing anything about the episode and let myself be totally surprised by what I see... But that's just me.
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What would you rather have ageless immortality or the ability to Change your body when you die for about 13 Lives? And of course, you're not the Doctor. You didn't get an extra 11 lives in "Let's Kill Hitler." I'd personally want to regenerate.***
I agree! Immortality brings with it so much baggage! A sense of entitlement, ego-mania, and a permanent sense of loss when others expire around you!
***It's beyond even that. Imagine, if you can, a billion years. One thousand million years. That is just the start. What if we never develop the ability to travel to other stars? When the sun dies, you'll be stuck, alone on a dead world. Forever, with no end.***
In the animated version of the 'Justice League,' Superman was sent into the future only to discover a villain who had immortality! It was horrible so I know what you mean! He obviously went insane all alone on the planet where he eliminated all people! Fortunately he was able to send Kal-El back to stop him from destroying all life on Earth and people started appearing in his future!
***Seeing the Time War would be a huge mistake as it will never live up to expectations, but more of Gallifray we will probably get to see. You are being a bit harsh on the Time Lords saying they are no better than the Daleks. The Timelords for a very long time had a non interference policy to the point of it being the thing that defined them. Where the Daleks have wanted to exterminate everything not Dalek almost since there creation, although the TL's did fire the first shot in the TW (Genesis of the Daleks). They only really went bad in the new series and that may well have been those led by a quite insane Rassilon, while the entire Dalek race want to kill everything. - I got tired of the Daleks coming back more than the other villains, like so many other fans do, but ultimately, I do love their episodes. In fact, when I was watching random episodes from classic Doctor Who just to get a feel for the classic series, the Daleks/Davros episodes were one of the group of episodes I went to watch.
ReplyDelete---
To be fair to the Time Lords, they were kind of stuck in a desperate situation. Rassilon was the selfish one; the rest of the Time Lords were just following his lead out of necessity (and reverence). - Yes, Susan was the show's first companion, and is also the Doctor's granddaughter.***
I didn't think about it until they started using that term "Time War" in the reboot, but it technically began when The Doctor was sent to Skaro to influence the Dalek "Genesis" or creation; right? It continued when he went back with Ramona where the Movellans were trying to get to Davros who was in suspended animation; not dead in "Destiny Of The Daleks!" It seemed everytime the Doctor came in contact with the Daleks, it was part of The Time War!
***As for the buildings/architecture of Gallifrey, we were shown glimpses of that throughout the old series and new series. I'm not concerned about seeing it again, but I would like to if possible. I really want to see Daleks vs Timelords, even a small part. I want Rani and the Master in it, but the Doctor didn't know what happened to the Master during the Time War, so I highly doubt we'll be seeing him. It would be nice to see Rani a little though. I would like to see Gallifrey and/or the Time Lords return after the 50th, but I'm not holding my breath. That's too good to be true.
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'The Doctor's Revisited' and the stories that go with it:
William Hartnell - The Aztecs
Patrick Troughton - Tomb of the Cybermen
Jon Pertwee - Spearhead from Space
Tom Baker - Pyramids of Mars
Peter Davison - Earthshock
Colin Baker - Vengeance on Varos
Sylvester McCoy - Battlefield ("Remembrance Of The Daleks" originally telecast)
Paul McGann - Doctor Who: The Movie
Christopher Eccleston - Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways
David Tennant - The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End
Matt Smith - The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon***
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If you even have 2 or 3 episodes without a woman as a companion on the TARDIS, it'll become a "gay thing" like Batman and Robin over the years! It's just not acceptable for 2 males to travel for any length of time without a little "T & A" to look at, talk about, or wonder! Just shows how narrow-minded society is to this day! I guess my namesake Jamie worked out well because he was from out of history and he wore a kilt! When "The Two Doctors" was produced, without a second thought, he was brought in as Troughton's companion and it worked out very well!
*** - http://sfdebris.com/videos/doctorwho/dw101.asp -
ReplyDeleteI still say that either Hurt's Doctor or Capaldi's Doctor will be the last one she meets. The one who gives her the red screwdriver with dampers, I'm guessing it's Capaldi and we'll have a two parter with her last story...I think River and Capaldi are going to look sexy together.***
So how are they going to handle River now that this will be the 3rd Doctor; Tennett, Smith, now Capaldi? The last should know her the best I guess! Still meeting in reverse order?
***John Hurt was supposed to be the 12th Doctor (which would have been awesome), but whatever occurred to have Capaldi be cast and Hurt to only have the cameo and this special?
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And 5 months later from season 7's finish from way back in May and people are still going on about he was supposedly supposed to be the 12th Doctor? I half expected better fan theories after all this time has passed and we're getting closer to the 50th Anniversary special by now. And who said Hurt was cameoing in the 50th special only? Wasn't there rumors of him doing a bit more than just that? And also being carried over for the Dr Who Christmas Special as well?
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This is your chance to be part of Doctor Who history! We want your vote in a quest to discover the answer to a keenly contested question: Who is the ultimate Doctor Who villain? As we approach the 50th anniversary we’re celebrating all those monsters, madmen and fabulous fiends that the Doctor has faced and we need your help to discover which one should be crowned ‘the ultimate’! Everyone has memories of a certain scene that chilled or thrilled them; the first time we saw a Dalek in all their sinister glory, the arrival of the merciless Cybermen, or the time we're told not to blink as the Weeping Angels made their deadly debut!***
The usual suspects are Daleks, Davros, The Master, The Weeping Angels, The Silence, The Sontarans, then The Cybermen!
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The origins of the time war...We all, sort of know what went off in the war itself the Time Lords and Daleks basically all but destroyed each other. It would be nice to learn how it was started, who started it? - The Time Lords, when they sent the Doctor to prevent the Daleks from ever becoming a universal threat.
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It's arguable even then; the Time Lords sent him to Skaro only b/c they "foresee a time in which the Daleks will have conquered all other life forms..." which must have incl. them conquering the Time Lords. So you could argue that the first act was Daleks conquering Time Lords, and the Time Lords then sent the Doctor back in time to prevent it ... how do you even decide how a Time War started? Causality would be impossible to work out.
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The whole issue of the Time War seems best suited for an entire season all to itself to explain really rather than a major Anniversary Special by next month or a Xmas special by year's end in Dec. etc. So I'll be very surprised if the 50th An. covers and finishes the whole story arc off once and for all in a neat little bow, when all is said and done. - The arc was finished by The End of Time and the Time war has been barely mentioned since, Moffats only brought it back because he likes big plot twists and couldn't resist a hidden Doctor.***
"Genesis" had to be the start even though there was no talk of a "Time War" until the reboot; IMO anyway! Thinking back, you fill in all the empty spaces and add them up to make it a TW with so many encounters with Daleks; esp. with Tom Baker who started it all! He went to Skaro at least twice!
***Omega returning as been a rumour for years, I believe there was a fairly widespread one that he was going to be the big bad in The Name of the Doctor. And of course the last time Omega appeared in a story he was played by Peter Davison. Put them all together and you get Peter Davison playing Omega in the Anniversary Special.***
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how many of the hierachy of Gallifrey are found to be ruthless, self-serving, and totally malevolent; willing to destroy everything just for survival! Omega, Rassilon, and Burusa, Lord President went to the limit in trying to sustain power or perpetuate their lives! It appears the Doctor is the exception and not the rule when it comes to The Time Lords!
***Which is why he left Gallifrey in the first place! - I wouldnt like the Time Lords to return. ...As the 10th Doctor once said, "the Daleks always survive and I keep losing everything." Bringing the Time Lord race back would erase everything; the guilt, the drama, the significance of the Last Great Time War. It's really fun having The Master every now and then. It was also fun when Rassilon attempted to bring Gallifrey back, just like the Daleks keep standing in the Doctor's way. But I don't want them as regulars, not anymore.
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They'd also have to come up with some timey-wimey device that the Doctor can use to negate the Time Lord's capabilities of plucking him out of space and time (something they've done in the past multiple times). Of course I wouldn't be surprised if they did, and they'll just claim to explain it later (and never do). - But didnt Gallifrey exist outside normal time and space? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think there are alternate versions of the doctor, other than 10.5
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Even if stopped using The Master and they brought back some Timelords, foes we haven't seen in several decades like; Omega, The Rani, Rassilon or Meddling Monk; even given us Morbius who's only appearance has been in "The Brain Of Morbius" where he had already been executed, but his mind saved by a loyal follower (Solon). I'd say no to it all, the future ought to come with new materials not reused ones for the umpteenth time etc.
The Timelords were a great mystery and threat in the first 15 to 20 years of the whole program, up until the serials like 'The Wargames' (Introduction after so much heresy by the Doctor of his *then* very mysterious past). "The Three Doctors" (Omega appears), The Deadly Assassin (retooled the show's makeup somewhat and gave the Timelords their backstory partially), 'The Invasion Of Time,' 'Arc Of Infinity,' & 'The Five Doctors' (Rassilon appears). Where they had their last big hurrah's onscreen in powerful storylines. Afterwards there was no mystery to them anymore.
I guess the revived Doctor Who series had to reuse them eventually at some point, which is exactly why we had; "The End Of Time" storyarc. But even so, after all of that finally played itself out, it would only later make the new Who series only more reliant on the older introduced concepts the classic show came up with and not its own. From a fan point of view and perspective. Doctor Who should have the Doctor facing new challenges as the last of his race (barring The Master and Rassilon locked away in the timelock).***
***This is a sequential list of all great or very good TNG eps. Also included are mediocre or bad eps which are nevertheless worthwhile for some specific reason (they will feature at least 1 great scene, intelligent sci-fi ideas, intelligent political ideas, important character history or plot points necessary for following the series).
ReplyDeleteWhere No One Has Gone Before
The Battle
11001001
Home Soil
Heart of Glory
Where Silence Has Lease
A Matter of Honor
The Measure of a Man
Contagion
The Royale
Time Squared
Q Who
Peak Performance
Evolution
The Survivors
Who Watches the Watchers
Booby Trap
The Enemy
The Price
The Defector
The Vengeance Factor
The Hunted
The High Ground
Deja Q
A Matter of Perspective
Elementary dear Data
Sins of the Father
Yesterday's Enterprise
Tin Man
Hollow Pursuits
Sarek
Transfigurations
The Best of Both Worlds, Pt I
The Best of Both Worlds, Pt II
Family
Brothers
Remember Me
Future Imperfect
Reunion
Data's Day
The Wounded
Clues
First Contact
Galaxy's Child
Night Terrors
The Nth Degree
Identity Crisis
The Drumhead
Redemption 1
Redemption 2
The Mind's Eye
Darmok
Silicon Avatar
Unification 1
Unification 2
Cause and Effect
The First Duty
I, Borg
The Inner Light
Relics
Chain of Command 1
Chain of Command 2
Ship in a Bottle
Face of the Enemy
Tapestry
Lessons
The Chase
Frame of Mind
Second Chances
Timescape
The Pegasus
Lower Decks
Thine Own Self
Preemptive Strike
All Good Things 1
All Good Things 2
Total # of TNG episodes: 178
Total # of worthwhile episodes (IMO): 75
Quality %: 42
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This is a sequential list of all great or very good DS9 episodes. Also included are mediocre or bad episodes which are nevertheless worthwhile for some specific reason (they will feature at least 1 great scene, intelligent sci-fi ideas, intelligent political ideas, important character history or plot points necessary for following the series ).
Emissary 1
Emissary 2
Past Prologue
Dax
Vortex
Progress
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Paradise
Blood Oath
The Maquis, Pt I
The Maquis, Pt II
The Wire
Crossover
The Collaborator
The Jem'Hadar
The Search, Part 1
The Search, Part 2
Second Skin
The Abandoned
Civil Defense
Defiant
Past Tense, Pt I
Past Tense, Pt II
Life Support
Heart of Stone
Destiny
Visionary
Through the Looking Glass
Improbable Cause
The Die Is Cast
Explorers
Family Business
Shakaar
The Adversary
The Way of the Warrior 1
The Way of the Warrior 2
The Visitor
Hippocratic Oath
Indiscretion
Starship Down
Homefront
Paradise Lost
Return to Grace
Accession
Shattered Mirror
The Quickening
Broken Link
Apocalypse Rising
Trials and Tribble-ations
Things Past
For the Uniform
In Purgatory's Shadow
By Inferno's Light
Soldiers of the Empire
Children of Time
Blaze of Glory
In the Cards
Call to Arms
A Time to Stand
Rocks and Shoals
Behind the Lines
Favor the Bold
Sacrifice of Angels
Waltz
Far Beyond the Stars
In the Pale Moonlight
Valiant
Tears of the Prophets
Shadows and Symbols
Take Me Out to the Holosuite
Treachery, Faith, and the Great River
Once More Unto the Breach
It's Only a Paper Moon
Chimera
The Changing Face of Evil
When it Rains
Tacking into the Wind
The Dogs of War
What You Leave Behind
Total # of DS9 eps: 176
Total # of worthwhile eps (IMO): 86
Quality %: 48***
***Why did people hate Wesley Crusher? - Wesley starts out being a wise-ass know-it-all, then we get his relationship to the Traveler, and finally he gets to be the smug acting ensign. Like the show, he gets better with age. But for many of us, the impression was already made.***
ReplyDeleteLike most I thought he was a cocky little punk who caused more trouble than he solved! His ego was huge; even off the show! I saw him in an episode of "The Weakest Link; Celebrity Edition!" He actually said out loud among the rest of the cast how he and Marina Sirtis were the most attractive of the group! It's been over 10 years, but I have a very clear memory of it with the rest of the audience gasping and laughing!
***Right at the end he said he was just kidding b/c the host was acting like he was really stuck up so he was acting that way for her benefit. I was happy "Geordi" won.***
You saw it then! I had just gotten back from Europe in '01 where I was watching the British version and thought it would be a great show to produce in the States! I was pleasantly surprised that within a couple months, they did just that! He really said it was a joke? Thank GAWD! It haunted me for so long! All I could think was, "what an ego!" Since then, I've only seen Marina in an episode of "Earth: Final Conflict!"
***Just cause I said Stewart has great dialogue in every episode, or nearly, or most; he definitely was better than Shatner with the dialogue he was given.***
He has a great voice! Before STNG, I had only seen him twice and he was great; both small parts, but he made them his in "Dune" and "Lifeforce!" After that besides STNG, he was quite good in his gay role in "Jeffrey!" Since then he's been immortalize in "X-Men" and it looks like they'll bring him back even though it appeared he was destroyed by The Dark Phoenix!
***Looks can be deceiving.***
Why do you say that? It appears Moira said his name at the end of the credits of "X-Men Last Stand!" We don't see him, but who else could Charles be?
***What is your favorite episode....and why?***
"Tin Man" is an episode I can relate with Tam Elbrun! I almost crave that kind of isolation on Gomtuu just so "the voices are finally silent!" Too much stupidity going on these days; esp. with budget and debt chaos here in the States! THe Republicans and conservatives in gov't are the Romulans who'd rather destroy everything while Dems and moderates want all to share prosperity! No place on this planet is safe to avoid such idiots in power! "Please Tim Man, take me away!"
***As a 37 year old woman and Doctor Who fan, I will tell you that I don't find Matt Smith even remotely attractive. I think he plays the Doctor well, but I don't find him cute at all. I do find David Tennant to be hot at times and adorable at others. It really just is a matter of personal preference. I think Matt Smith looks goofy.***
ReplyDeleteHmmm, this is the 1st time I've ever seen a thread devoted to the Doctor being "hot" or not! Hilarious in my opinion since most of the time he's been an old man! I personally sat up when Davison regenerated from Baker, but I didn't make a Federal case about it! He was younger and obviously more attractive, but it didn't change the show; so the point was moot!
***Hottest Companion?***
Captain Jack is at the top of the list; of course, but I have a personal preference for redheads, and Turlough looked "hot" in his little shorts in "Planet Of Fire! Too bad he left at the end! I hated the school uniform with the tie!
***Ew...Captainess Jackeline? Personally, I find Adric hotter; in looks AND personality, but I'm going with Rory or Ben.***
Adric got on my nerves with his incessant whining and questions! Nothing wrong with Arthur though! Here's my fave pic of him: - http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/fish-love-broadchurch-star-arthur-darvill-poses-nude-with-un-poisson-8631042.html - Rory nude w/ monk fish
***Who is the best Davros - If I am right there have been 4 actors playing Davros including Michael Wisher; 3 actors played him in classic Who and one in nuWho. Which are the best of the 4 for me; the last 2?***
Davros is Davros, regardless if it's an actor or puppet! It doesn't matter! It's a great character villain; period!
***All due credit to Terry Molloy for delivering the lines he had in 'Resurrection of the Daleks' without collapsing in a fit of laughter.
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Top 5 classic stories (IMO) - Mine is full of the usual suspects:
1. Genesis of the Daleks
2. The Seeds of Doom
3. City of Death
4. Inferno
5. The Talons of Weng Chiang***
With 30+ years of Classic Who, it's hard to draw just 5 great eps to take note of, but you came the closest to my way of thinking; including the worst: "Genesis Of The Daleks, Seeds Of Doom, City Of Death, City In Decay, & Talons Of Weng Chiang" come to mind right away for different reasons! "City Of Death" has been done using historical events like the theft of the Mona Lisa as a way of extracting money from multiple buyers! "City In Decay" has a little drama with space vampires and a Devil like character in E-Space! "Genesis" shows us where the Daleks came from so that's always a fave of people! "Seeds Of Doom" is quite reminiscent of "The Thing!" And "Talons" is a great story with a number of twists and turns!
***I would like to hear your thoughts on Terry Nation as a writer. Some people rate him as a talentless hack with no redeeming features as a writer who leeched off of the hard work of others and churned out the same $hit again and again, whilst others regard him as one of the most important figures in tv history! Here's what I think of his work on Doctor Who, B7, & Survivors.
ReplyDeleteDaleks Master Plan: A great story, but Nation only wrote half of it. Credit where credit is due to Dennis Spooner. The Daleks Master Plan marks the beginning of the Daleks working alongside devious humaniods such as Lesterson, the Controller and eventually Davros. Mavic Chen is a brilliant character overall though a large part of why he works is down to Kevin Stoney's performance. It's also quite a dark story that is the first to kill a companion off in a sudden and violent way. You gotta admire Nation for having the balls to do that back in the 60's. It was almost unheard of to have main character die in such a violent, sudden way and again can be seen as another precursor to his work on B7.
Planet of The Daleks
The low point of Nations Who career whilst I enjoyed it as a kid and it's still fun as an adult Planet of the Daleks is just a shameless rip off of Nations own serial the Mutants...
Death to the Daleks
Not a very popular story of his, I really don't know why I love it. I would say its a minor character. Bellal is a lovable supporting character, the Exxilons are scary and well realized, Galloway is an interesting anti-hero, The Daleks are devious and have to use their brains for once, which is quite a nice contrast with Planet of the Daleks where we had them as these unstoppable monsters. Overall a great tight little story.
Genesis of the Daleks
Terry's magnus opus, this is IMO one of if not the greatest DW stories ever made. It shows us how evil the Daleks truly are when we see they are incapable of even understanding what pity is. I also think it explains a lot of the Daleks previous behavour. We find out that they were conditioned to hate other live forms, that they had their emotions removed from them by Davros which explains why we have never seen a Dalek that thinks differently and why every single last Dalek has been evil to its very core. Davros is also a brilliant character as is Nyder. Whilst Terry did write the script for Genesis he wasn't the only one responsible for its success. David Maloney's direction is perfect, the script editor Bob Holmes and the producer Philip Hinchcliff were probably the best team in Who's history, Tom Baker was probs the best Doctor, Liz Sladen the best companion, Michael Wisher and Peter Miles among the best guest performances in the show's history, even the Dalek voices on the story were perfect!...
The Android Invasion
I take it back about Planet of the Daleks, this is the low point of Nation's career. What was he thinking with this abomination, come to think of it what was anybody involved in this story thinking? Its bland, unoriginal, cliched, & dull...
Destiny of the Daleks
An okay story. It has an intriguing plot, some quite effective moments, and is overall an enjoyable little romp. I think its more let down by its poor production values which isn't the fault of Nation of course.***
Way back when, I didn't pay attention to who produced, wrote, or directed! I was pleasantly surprised to see and hear he contributed to the legacy of DW, but then went on to produce another fave of mines, "Blake's 7!"
***Doctor Who 50th An.: David Tennant and Billie Piper named best Doctor and companion - More than 20,000 voted in RadioTimes.com 50th an. poll to find the ultimate DW stars from half a century of BBC sci-fi programming.
ReplyDeleteTennant, who played the 10th Doctor btw '05 & '10, and will appear in the 50th An. special "The Day of the Doctor," romped home in the best Doctor vote attracting 56% of the vote.
Despite picking up a healthy 15%, incumbent Doctor Matt Smith was left a distant 2nd, narrowly ahead of classic Who icon Tom Baker (10%) who played the 4th Doctor between '74 and '81.
Chris Eccleston, who was chosen by Russel T Davies to play the lead role when the show was rebooted in '05, took 4th place, garnering almost 7% of the vote.
None of the other actors to play the Doctor managed to get above 3% of the vote, with Colin Baker, the 6th Doctor on screen btw '84 & '86, finishing bottom of the pile with less than 1% of fans selecting him as their fave star.
Billie Piper, who played the recurring role of Rose Tyler, a companion of both Eccleston and Tennant, topped the best companion poll, attracting a 1/4 of all votes. Piper, like Tennant, will also be reprising her role as part of the 50th An. celebrations.
The late Elisabeth Sladen, who played Sarah Jane Smith alongside Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker btw '73 & '76 came 2nd with 15% of the vote. Sladen, who died in April '11 aged 65, is also fondly remembered for reprising the character in spin-off series "K-9 and Company," and latterly The Sarah Jane Adventures which ran for 5 series on CBBC.
Actress and Comedian Catherine Tate, who appeared several times alongside David Tennant as companion Donna Noble came 3rd with 9% of vote. Alex Kingston who played River Song opposite Tennant and Smith came 4th ahead of Karen Gillan who portrayed Amy Pond alongside Matt Smith from '10 to '12.
Current companion Jenna Coleman, who plays Clara Oswald, could only manage 9th position in the poll behind John Barrowman (Captain Jack Harkness) and Sophie Aldred, Sylvester McCoy’s companion, Ace.
Best Doctor:
David Tennant 56.1
Matt Smith 15.93
Tom Baker 10.05
Christopher Eccleston 6.59
Patrick Troughton 2.86
Jon Pertwee 2.38
Peter Davison 1.59
Sylvester McCoy 1.36
Paul McGann 1.35
William Hartnell 0.9
Colin Baker 0.88
Best Comapnion:
Rose Tyler - Billie Piper 25.09
Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen 15.42
Donna Noble - Catherine Tate 12.32
River Song - Alex Kingston 9.09
Amy Pond - Karen Gillan 4.79
Jamie McCrimmon - Frazer Hines 4.1
Captain Jack Harkness - John Barrowman 3.49
Ace - Sophie Aldred 3.09
Clara Oswald - Jenna-Louise Coleman 2.65
Martha Jones - Freema Agyeman 2.54
(Colonel then) Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart - Nicholas Courtney 2.39
Romana - Mary Tamm, Lalla Ward 1.89
Rory Williams - Arthur Darvill 1.8
Wilfred Mott - Bernard Cribbins 1.26
K-9 - John Leeson, David Brierley 1.14
Jo Grant - Katy Manning 1.01
Leela - Louise Jameson 0.97
Tegan Jovanka - Janet Fielding 0.83
Peri Brown - Nicola Bryant 0.73
Barbara Wright - Jacqueline Hill 0.67
Ian Chesterton - William Russell 0.51
Nyssa - Sarah Sutton 0.49
Adric - Matthew Waterhouse 0.48
Susan Foreman - Carole Ann Ford 0.44
Harry Sullivan - Ian Marter 0.42
Strax - Dan Starkey 0.34
Turlough - Mark Strickson 0.31
Liz Shaw - Caroline John 0.28 ...***
***'Genesis Of The Daleks' - The best Dalek story (despite their limited screen time) with efficient direction by David Maloney and terrific performances by all, esp, Michael Wisher who is extremely effective and unforgettable as Davros. Interesting idea of the Time lords sending the Doctor to Skaro in a pivotal point in Dalek history, which the whole misguided business of the new series took to preposterous extremes with an actual Time War. The Doctor didn't change history at all, but merely (once again) became a part of it, learning invaluable info about the Daleks and the future threat of Davros in the process (imagine if he showed up in 'Destiny Of The Daleks' with no previous knowledge of Davros)? Whole story dynamic changes as a result!***
ReplyDelete"Where are my Daleks?" I can still see and hear Baker's reunion with Davros in "DOTD!" Funny I don't remember the term "Time War" used until the re-boot! All the Doctor's encounters with Davros was perchance except in "Genesis...;" or so I thought!
***Davros became overused later on, and should have been killed off for good in 'Resurrection Of The Daleks.' I think he should have stayed dead after "Genesis of the Daleks." As originally presented, "Genesis" had a perfect ending - Davros created a monster which then destroyed him.
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Which of three multi-Doctor tv stories do you like the best? I personally like "The Five Doctors" despite its flaws (only three of the actors who played the Doctor taking part in it, little or no reaction from the Doctors 2, 3, & 5 to the reappearance of Susan, etc.) mainly b/c it was the first of the 3 I saw and for a long time, except for feature length version of "Revenge of the Cybermen", it was the only Doctor Who story I had access to on VHS. On top of that Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee give good performances.***
I love them all, but the "The Two Doctors" was the newest with guest appearances from "Blake's 7" alum, Jacqueline Pearce as Chessene and my namesake Jamie!
***Do fans of particular Doctors have collective names?
Hartnellephants
Troughtonians
Pertweenies
Bakerphytes
Davisons of Anarchy
Colinists
McCoysters
McGannets
Hurtlings
Ecclestoners
Tennaunties
Smithlords
Capaldists ***
Back in my day w/ the classic program, we were all just "Whovians: Children Of Rassilon!" Sorry, but even after all this time and so many regenerations, "The Doctor" was and always will be "TOM BAKER!" No one more iconic despite the radiotime.com poll!
***"The End Of Time" - ...The last time I tried I turned it off after the Master was brought back to life by magic and a lot of shouting.***
OMG, magic! How do they get away with that kind of stuff in a science fiction program of this quality? What was more magical than Earthpeople's faith in the Doctor by thinking and chanting his name all at once in "The Last Of The Time Lords!" I guess people might say it's 'psychic' energy, but looked more like magic to me!
***I've recently seen all episodes of DS9, TNG and ST. I honestly think they are equal and all good for vastly different reasons. DS9 has slightly more good eps or masterpieces than TNG, but gets real dumb in the last season. It's also a chore to watch when a poor episode is airing. - TNG has the best "hard" sci-fi, and its masterpieces are arguably greater than the masterpieces in other Trek series'. Unfortunately, like DS9, most of the eps are rather flat and bland. TNG also excels at mind-bending, high concept episodes. - The orignal ST has a great, no-nonsense, militaristic tone. The crew get things done and fast. Some hate the acting, but I think Kirk, Spock, and Mccoy are wonderful. Only Picard can compete with the way these guys elightfully chew scenery. - Voyager, I am debating whether to bother watching. The few eps I have watched have been terrible and I find the crew rather grating. - I have only seen 1 ep of Enterprise - the pilot - and the sexism put me off, though ST was pretty sexist as well at times.***
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch STNG much when it began back then, thinking it a more advanced version of the original; down to Riker having a duplicate ala Kirk! It grew on me though and I got into the repeats later! Same with "Voyager!" "Endgame" was the best finale; a little time travel included! Loved "armour deployment!"
***Why not have Data work 24 hour shifts all the time? All the crew including the captain are availible 24/7 and can be called onto duty at a moments notice. Why shouldn't Data have time off duty? He's a starfleet officer and not the property any more than any other crew member is.***
You're supposed to buy into the plot that he's the most perfect android ever created with feelings and a need to evolve! I go along with the 16 hour day; social downtime to be with "friends," practice and perform art and music, etc.!
***STNG, "The Next Phase" - This episode makes NO sense whatsoever. How are they able to walk on floors, see light, breathe oxygen, etc.? The moment they became un-phased, they should have passed right through the ship and ended up in space. But even if there WERE a rational explanation for that not happening (which there's not), they would have immediately been unable to see anything or breathe, since their bodies were no longer in synch with this universe. If they couldn't interact with a console, they wouldn't be able to interact with gases or light beams either. All in all, a very stupid story, poorly executed.***
Well that's taking it too seriously! There would be no show if you rationalized everything that happens! You have to "suspend disbelief" when watching stuff like this! With all of space out there, it's amazing how they run into something all the time! In real life, even if you were looking "you couldn't find a needle in a haystack!"
***Things that annoy you about STNG - ...the social retards and general incompetent that seem to pollute Star Fleet.***
How corrupt "Star Fleet" seemed to be around the "higher ups!" Picard has had to expose or disregard direct orders at times! In real life, even if you're right, you can't get away with that! We've court martialed soldiers who refused to shoot innocent men, women, and children in the field! It'a happened enough times in real life!
...just a step above "Plan 9 From Outer Space!"
ReplyDelete***Either you think that "Kroll" is really awful or you think that "Plan 9" is not that bad. I can think of many steps 'twixt "Kroll" and "Plan 9." Doctor Who's staging and special effects could be embarrassing, but I don't think they ever descended to the Ed Wood level, and even if they did, the scripting and performances still compensated for them, which is something you can't say for Wood and his band of merry moviemakers.***
I was being more than a little facetious! Never heard of exaggeration I guess! In comparison to other DW episodes during that stretch of the "Keys To Time" arc, it was just lacking a lot IMO!
***I first saw Doctor Who eps way back when, I didn't care for Mary Tamm, but I was gaga for Lalla Ward. However, when I started to watch the entire classic series a few years ago, I realized that Tamm was much more attractive than I'd realized previously, and that Ward was not as hot as I'd thought. I think she's attractive, but . . . it's the chin. It's pushed in. Tamm has a nice chin. Ward may be the better actor, although she had more time to develop Romanadvoratrelundar. But Tamm did have a regal bearing about her that was distinctive.***
You covered it for me! It was a shame they went away from Tamm, but she probably warned them she was not going to play the subservient role to Baker's Doctor before she was hired! They ended up going to Lalla in the lamest explanation for regeneration ever! She was a Time Lord herself, not some companion to just pass a sonic screwdriver to The Doctor! It made sense for her to go off in "Warrior's Gate!" I enjoyed that period, but much perferred Tamm! I didn't watch or hear the audios that said Ward had gone back to Gallifrey and become Lord President! As far as I'm concerned, The Doctor will continue to have that title until he goes back himself to pass it on to someone else officially; temp. assigned to Flavia who was on the High Council at the time in "The Five Doctors!"
***Season 16 (Romana l) - The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Stones of Blood, The Androids of Tara, The Power of Kroll, The Armageddon Factor
Season 17 (Romana ll) - Destiny of the Daleks, City of Death, The Creature from the Pit, Nightmare of Eden, The Horns of Nimon, Shada (not completed or transmitted)
Season 18 (Romana ll) - The Leisure Hive, Meglos, Full Circle, State of Decay, Warriors' Gate, 20th An. special The Five Doctors (footage from Shada)
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Who is Hurt's Who? Is he an extension of 8? Is he 9 or is he a Valeyard-like incarnation between Doctors? - He's the 9th incarnation of the Doctor, however his regeneration was an artificial one. The 8th Doctor decided to turn himself into a Warrior to fight in the war, therefore he did not call himself The Doctor anymore and future incarnations spurned his very memory and refused to call him the Doctor. Therefore the 9th Doctor despite technically being the 10th incarnation still called himself the 9th Doctor. However with the information discovered in this story by the Doctor about his past, he might go back to calling this incarnation the Doctor.***
***The events that occurred in the 50th An. always happened; and Galifrey was never destroyed. The only reason the Doctor (mainly Eccleston) thinks otherwise is b/c once the Doctors traveled back to their respective timelines, the events that occurred were erased from their mind; to prevent a paradox? So #9 will always be destined to believe that he destroyed his home planet; and #10 up until he turns 903 will as well? - Bingo!
ReplyDelete---
Imagine, so they brought it back in '05 by killing off the Time Lords and having that Arc. So what if in like 20/30 years when its lost its sting again, they do it again? Invent some new reason why the Doctor is the only one left. OMG, they'll kill the Doctor off entirely and have his Son carry on the name:
New New New Doctor Who Jr. - Season 2...Would you watch it? Would you want to see DW go on for another 50 yrs?***
Nyah; think they should finish him off after his last regeneration, then reboot and start "remakes" of existing episodes from Classic Who!
***There is a chronology to the Doctor's life, whether he loops back on it or not, it still flows in a continuous line for him. - This is one of those rare moments in the Doctor's life where people aren't thinking linear enough.***
After introduction of River Song and her meeting up with the Doctor in reverse time order, linear time has been put on hold for me ever since!
***Leave Eccleston alone! - He didn't quit, he was always upfront about only doing one series. He's an actor and doesn't have to give in to pressure from fans to come back for all events and anniversaries.***
When Chris took the part, he probably didn't think the series would "take" and get cancelled soon after season 1! I thought it might happen! Figured most Classic Whovians were dead, near death, and didn't watch Sci-Fi or BBCA back then here in the States!
***I have been watching 'DW' my entire life and was a child when the "classic" eps aired. I enjoy a lot of those almost as much as the modern ones. The only reason I don't enjoy them AS much are the effects.
In spite of the now "cheesy" effects of the old ones, the stories are still great. I love watching Baker episodes as he's my fav. The NuWho stories I think are just as good.
You just have 2 camps of people who can relax and enjoy the story (blemishes and all) vs those who want "Good Trek, or no Trek." The stories (as with the classics) are still better than just about any sci-fi I have ever seen, and I have seen them all over the past 40 yrs.***
Yep, he nailed it all! I started with Baker and enjoyed Davison turn in the role, then going back to Pertwee, Troughton, & Hartnell! Give me cheesy anytime if the program is as cult-like as "DW!"
***For me, the 50th easily beat out "A Christmas Carol" as my fave special, and I think it may have actually penetrated my top 5. ...In summary, my only real gripes were the fact that McGann's regeneration wasn't incorporated into the episode, ...However, I understand the idea of respecting Eccleston's wishes not to feature in any new content.***
They've had big scenes before; esp. at the beginning of an episode, but this was epic! I thought it was a feature length film instead of the 50th An. ep. at first! It was huge with elaborate scenes from space and sets, a cast of thousands avoiding blasts from the sky and mobile Daleks on the ground! I was terribly impressed! I wanted more Doctors to have substanative parts in this plot except just the finale, but "they got me!" Seeing Baker at the end still makes me a little verklempt! I'm satisfied and it was well worth the wait!
***1. The Time War starts.
ReplyDelete2. Eight helps out a few times, and ultimately chooses to deny the name Doctor and regenerate into a new man (Not in the sense Ten said, the TRUE sense). Warrior (I'll use that as he never personally calls himself "War Doctor") is born.
3. The Master attempts to revive Gallifrey from the midsts of the War (Ripping it out of the Time-locked events, NOT the bubble universe it's now sealed in) Ten reveals that Rassilon was planning something diabolical. When the Master finds out he was being used all his life (Retroactively, as this abuse of him only started when the Time War was in place, so the Master in Old Who was NOT affected with a drum beat in his head), he attacks Rassillon, and is sealed back into the Time-Locked events.
4. (Supposition) The Master possibly kills Rassillon, or at least causes enough of an uproar to where the other members of the High Council finally decide to balls up and stand against him.
5. (What we see in DOTD) The General announces that the High Council's plans have failed. They then see the message from The Warrior and find out what he's done.
6. Warrior steals The Moment and takes it to a desolate part of Gallifrey (Possibly the home he grew up in?) There, the Conscience of The Moment takes control of space and time to open The WArrior's eyes.
7. Ten, Eleven, and the Warrior get involved in stuff, and The Warrior feels ready to take on his task.
8. Having thought on things for 400 years, Eleven comes up with a plan to seal Gallifrey in a moment, and cause the Daleks to commit genocide on themselves.
9. All the Doctors, plus one future versions use their TARDISes, which have been calculating the precise mathematics needed to complete the process for over 800-1200 years. Gallifrey is locked away in a pocket universe, frozen in one moment.
10. Following the principles set down by Wedding of River Song, only the most recent incarnation remembers exactly what happened. The Warrior forgets he was redeemed and never thinks of himself as the Doctor beyond that one moment, Nine lives with the grief of what he's done, Ten is traumatised and becomes increasingly delusional as a result of his PTSD, and Eleven hides away his crimes in his head until these events.
11. A future incarnation of the Doctor, who's revisited an old face (Four) gives subtle hints to the Doctor about what he'll be doing next, and that Gallifrey is there to be saved.
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Seems fine except for one thing.
In The End of Time, the Partisan says "[the Doctor] still possess the Moment. And he'll use it to destroy Daleks and Time Lords alike." That would imply that the High Council's emergency session was still going on when the War Doctor was in that desert region. When the General said "[The High Council] have plans of their own, but their plans have already failed," it seemed to me that he was just being extremely cynical of what the High Council had planned. - Not a major issue, but it does alter some details.
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Tom Baker is the oldest surviving Doctor and the most iconic. To me he was the logical choice for the curator. - Couldn't agree with you more. Now that I think about it, it is kind of funny that Clara didn't recognize him, though I guess it's possible that she did and just wanted to give The Doctor a surprise.
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I couldn't agree less, Tom 'EgoBoy' Baker spent years spitting in the faces of the other Doctors and Fans, refusing to be involved in the "The Five Doctors" b/c he wasn't the center of attention; got involved with Big Finish when he was slipping out of the minds of the fans.***
You're both right; Tom Baker's animus toward the production and the most iconic and logical choice in the end! Colin was no fan fave with few stories worth mentioning; though I loved "Vengeance On Varos" telecast during his "revisited!"
***It could have been any of the Doctors and still been a great scene, but it's understandable that it was Tom Baker. Before the show came back in '05 he was the most recognisable Doctor to the general public. I'm choosing to believe that he renegerates into more than one of his previous incarnations during his time as the Curator, a "farewell tour" so to speak.
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Why did Hurt regenerate? I can definitely see Eccleston's face in the regeneration. Not just that, but people seemed to have missed that through the whole episode, Hurt was wearing an extremely familiar leather jacket that the 9th Doctor would end up wearing.
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Lots of good theories here, but I think in the end the regeneration is simple old age, since it's a direct allusion to the 1st Doctor's regeneration scene.
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This is the way I interpret what happened. He was completing the regeneration process, which had already begun in "Night of the Doctor." When the Sisterhood brought him back to life after the crash, it was only for a few minutes, unless he drank the other potion to accelerate the regeneration, but, he only changed halfway (in other words, he was Doctor #8.5). Since he was going against his principles, he stayed in this interim form for hundreds of years, not considering it a true regeneration. After the crisis was over, he let himself succumb to the ravages of the Time War. Remember, he used the 1st Doctor's words: "...this body is wearing a bit thin." Feeling vindicated, he completed the regeneration. This way, the numbering of the Doctor's forms remains intact: McGann-8, Hurt-8.5, Eccleston-9, Tennant-10, Smith-11, Capaldi-12, ?-13.
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Neil Gaiman's opinion on the numbering - "We now know there was a regeneration btw the Paul McGann 8th Doctor and the Chris Eccleston 9th Doctor, one whom the Doctor himself has only just begun to regard as being The Doctor (as opposed to being something else)."
Pondering if it means fans now have to agree to renumber all the Doctors, he says: "I think the main purpose of numbering things is to communicate, and we all know who we mean when we say Doctors 9, 10 or 11. If anyone corrects you and says 'You mean 12TH!' when you say 'Matt Smith was the 11th Doctor' then that person is being irritatingly pedantic and should be pitied, in a nice way and with a gentle friendly, not-patronising sort of love, b/c they will have long hard lives ahead of them."
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I'd personally prefer Hexidecimal over Duodecimal, which would allow for 16 regenerations:
1 - Hartnell
2 - Troughton
3 - Pertwee
4 - Baker, T.
5 - Davison
6 - Baker, C.
7 - McCoy
8 - McGann
9 - Hurt
A - Eccleston
B - Tennant
C - Tennant (Handy)
D - Smith
E - Capaldi
F - ?
:
14 - Baker, T. (Curator)
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With NO planetary debris field; how will Gallifrey be thought destroyed? - However, during the Dalek final assault on Gallifrey, the war had become time locked ... "By this point, the entire period of war had become "time locked," so that no time traveller could enter or exit it." Therefore, time travel could no longer be used to alter the outcome.***
Silly! Wouldn't someone or something have to be there to witness and analyze the debris at the time? You can't just come across it "willy nilly" years later! Space is vast and you have to know it's there; how many knew where Gallifrey really was situated?
***There were bits that didn't quite work (the Zygon plot that fizzled out a bit), but generally, I loved the interaction between Hurt, Tennant and Smith and, of course TOM EFFING BAKER!***
ReplyDeleteThat covered it for me! It was well done, probably could have done without the Zygons, but overall seeing multi-Doctor episodes always lifts me up; actually still "verklempt" now thinking of Baker's cryptic ending speech! I can die happy now; so to speak! I think I'll have to put this one above the others since the beginning was so epic! I thought I was watching a feature film for a few minutes there!
***Okay, so from what I've heard, Steven Moffat has gone on record saying that with the insertion of the War Doctor into canon, coupled with the inclusion of Ten's aborted regeneration, Smith is now technically the thirteenth and final incarnation of the Doctor; an issue that he plans to resolve at Xmas. However, I've just been re-watching "Let's Kill Hitler," and in the scene where the dying Doctor's in the TARDIS conversing with the voice interface, it states that his ability to regenerate has been suspended by the poison. How can it suspend his regeneration if he doesn't have any regenerations left?
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B/c back then Moffatt hadn't decided cramming John Hurt into the canon would be better than asking Paul Mcgann back.***
Hurt is a more established actor going back to the 70's in "The Naked Civil Servant!" Why was it easier to insert him over some "nobody" I haven't seen since that awful movie back in the 90's? This Christmas episode better make me a true believer if they want to change "canon!"
***Steven Moffat has been pretty faithful to the original 'Who' canon, and recently I rewatched the 'Trial' of Colin Baker's 6th Doctor. The prosecution was a ruthless Time Lord called The Valeyard who was revealed to be a future incarnation of The Doctor. The (Ainley) Master served as a witness who outed the identity of The Valeyard to be a version "somewhere in btw The Doctor's 12th and 13th regeneration."
This raises 2 questions:
1) Will we see The Valeyard now that the 12th Doctor is about to take over?
And
2) Will The Master be involved being he has clearly encountered The Valeyard?***
I guess I should feel terrible I had forgotten the Master showed up as a witness at "The Trial...!" ...I just never went back to rewatch Colin and Sylvester; their resp. Dalek ep the only staple you can't do without! ...The message board referenced the Valyard being a creation of the Time Lords other than a legitimate future incarnation! I hope I have that right!
***The Valeyard was cited as an amalgamation of the darker sides of The Doctors' various personalities, so in essence it was an artificially created being. So this means to me that it is entirely likely that there will not be a regeneration into this being. Perhaps we will see the Valeyard b/c The Master is the one who created him.
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The Greatest Doctor Who Episode of All Time? - Either 'Pyramids of Mars' or 'The War Games'***
"Pyramids ...." is right up there, but I'd go with a bigger story arc; "Genesis Of The Daleks," "Seeds Of Doom," or "Talons Of Weng Chiang!" Nyder, Scorbie, and Mr. Sin slayed me even though not meant to be the main antagonists!
***I'm really going to have to go with the "Day Of The Doctor" on this one, not just b/c it's the most recently, but b/c it has replay value for me.***
Of the multi-Doctor episodes, they finally produced one more elaborate and worthy than my past fave; "The Two Doctors" with C. Baker and Troughton! Love them all, but this last one, 'DOTD' was almost epic; looked like a feature film! Brilliant!
I really like "Remembrance..." even w/ McCoy! You got to see 2 factions of the Daleks; renegades and Davros' latest version! As usual The Doctor just walks in and takes over in '63! It should be canon that Skaro was destroyed then!
ReplyDelete***It is canon. It happened in McCoy's best episode, but he killed all the Thals.
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Not that interested in the new series, ... I wondered if there were any female villains in the classic series? I find female villains more interesting, who else apart from the great Kate O Mara as the Rani?
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My fave is Lady Adrasta (Myra Frances) from "The Creature from the Pit." Others are:
Miss Winters (Patricia Maynard), "Robot"
Nurse/Queen Xanxia (Rosalind Lloyd), "The Pirate Planet"
Camilla (Rachel Davies), "State of Decay"
Kassia (Sheila Ruskin), "The Keeper of Traken"
Helen A (Sheila Hancock), "The Happiness Patrol"
Lady Peinforte (Fiona Walker), "Silver Nemesis"
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There aren't an awful lot of female villains - most of the ones leaping to mind are in T Baker eps.
There's a female villain in Robot (s12e01), The Pirate Planet (s16e02), The Stones of Blood (s16e03), The Creature from the Pit (s17e03), The Happiness Patrol (s25e02), and Silver Nemesis (s25e03) And, you could argue, Snakedance (s20e02)
Some have women in villainous roles, but not THE villain as opposed to a 'henchman' sort of role. Enlightenment (s20e05), State of Decay (s18e04), The City of Death (s17e02), Warriors of the Deep (s21e01) and Four to Doomsday (s19e02) leap to mind.
Apparently the Hartnell story Galaxy Four had it's twist being that the cute, innocent looking blonde aliens were the villains.
Somehow I almost forgot The Two Doctors (s22e04) which has a very arch performance from Blakes 7's Jacqueline Pearce as Chessene o' The Franzine Grig. She's quite a memorable villain.
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Lol At The Stinker That is the 50th An.!
1.-The unresolved plots. No explanation needed as to how Clara and the Doctor got out of the Doctor's timeline or why Clara doesn't remember anything about the Hurt Doctor. People can run and say that it was a period in his life that was timelocked, but then how in the hell did a Clara clone get onto Gallifrey in the 1st place if its whole history was time locked? Lets just not even mention the pointless storylines about the Zygons & Queen Elizabeth that went absolutely nowhere. This is one of the messiest things that Moffat has ever written, and thats a feat considering he penned "The Wedding of River Song" and "Lets Kill Hitler," among other clunkers.
2.-The horrible characterizations. I guess that Moffat was going for a gag with everything but Queen Elizabeth and Osgood were god awful characters played be horrible actors. ...To think they got paid for this mess when these checks could've gone to Martha Jones or Captain Jack instead.
3.-More on the fact that Moffat is just "as bad" as RTD, considering that The Moment was just a giant button he had to press that would've destroyed the galaxy. I love that when Moffat does the same *beep* as RTD, its lauded as brilliant. ...Also, the fact that Hurt's Doctor was hyped for almost a year to be a DARK Doctor and he ended up being a sad old puppy for all of his screen time? The only moment of "bad-assery" we got was when scribbled "No More" on the wall, and that was one of the cheesiest moments of this ep. All of this hype seriously just to have this lazy ass level of writing is so disappointing, its not even funny anymore.
I can only think of 3 positive things that I enjoyed in this ep; Matt Smith/David Tennant's interactions, Capaldi's cameo, & Tom Baker's scene at the end. Though TB's scene did leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth b/c there was Moffat again, making sure that he's the end all of Doctor Who; pretty much having set the ending for the title character of the show. -:) ***
***The Keeper of Traken - I think the idea in 'The Deadly Assassin' is not that he's burned or anything like that, just that his body is so far past the natural end of his 13th incarnation that it is more or less falling to pieces on him.
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Fair enough, but isn't there a line the Master has in 'Traken' where he blames the Doctor for his decayed state and says that the last time they met before "The Deadly Assassin," the Doctor left him to die? It's been so long since I've seen 'Traken,'but I definitely remember something like that.***
Part of the Master's insanity manifested in him using the Doctor as an excuse for just about any and everything that went wrong or wasn't successful in his wretched life! He became even more delusional after he acquired "a new body" in "The Keeper Of Traken!"
***While it probably was a good time for Tom Baker to leave the show, JNT was one of the big reasons he did. The Man WAS Dr Who and JNT considers one of his big accomplishments as producer of Dr Who being getting Tom Baker to ... make up. ...***
From what little I remember of Tom Baker's era and his relationship behind the scenes with JNT, he supposedly was always threatening to quit! It was routinely ignored, put off, or placated between events! Tom "is" and forever "will be" The Doctor; just ask him!
***Steven Moffat - best and Worst episodes:
11th Hour – Just makes me grin from beginning to end
Christmas Carol – The only great Christmas Doctor Who ep
Impossible Astronaut – Almost perfect; even River
The Day of the Doctor – Had some daft stuff in the middle (Zygons, Elizabeth), but, "The 3 Doctors" were excellent and Tom Baker scene is probably my fave Dr Who scene of all time
The Big Bang – FINALLY a great finale episode! (still the best by a long way)
Girl In The Fireplace – Nice ep which stood head and shoulders above the standard of eps at the time
Blink – For the same reason as Girl in the Fireplace – strangely it’s the 1 ep where the (non recorded) scenes w/ the Doctor are the worst bits
Asylum of the Daleks – Excellent introduction of Clara, great production.
Worst – Basically the only Smith Episodes I don’t bother rewatching
Lets Kill Hitler – 1 reason – River Song maxed out to 11
The Name of the Doctor – I’m probably one of the few people who thinks Richard E Grant’s villain is terrible; very cartoon like. Thought this one didn’t work very well
The Wedding of River Song – Not actually terrible, just a disappointing finale after the Big Bang.
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Would you like to see the Daleks show up in series 8 - I could see how they were overused a bit during Russell's yrs, ...one which was just plain dreadful; 'Manhattan.' Since Moffat took over, however, I think they've been used rather well. I know I'm in the minority of liking "Victory of the Daleks", but I think the sparce appearances in the season finales were appropriate and "Asylum" just about brought them to a whole new level. In "Day of the Doctor" they were pretty much essential. I'm happy to see them pop up in the pace they have since series 5 started. ...***
ITA - The Daleks are enduring; regardless of being misused or over-exposed! I'm more amused by them these days since they appear to have a concept of fear; of the Doctor anyway! It's funny how he can actual make them appear to quiver in their "pepper-pots," seemingly helpless as he rants at them!
***What did people think of "Asylum of the Daleks?" - I thought it was brilliant. Easily the best Dalek story since 'Doomsday,' and the second best season opener behind "The Eleventh Hour." I also think it had the best twist ending in a very long time. My biggest complaint about it would be the Amy/Rory storyline. It did feel slightly shoehorned in and was resolved a bit too quickly.***
ReplyDeleteAgreed! Love "Asylum," but could have done w/o the Amy/Rory drama! She looked stunning though! It was predictable that Clara was a Dalek though and it was heart-wrenching seeing the conclusion; more sacrifice for the Doctor! It takes me back to "Robots Of Death" and Tom Baker where a robot did the same thing for him!
***Unfortunately the Daleks have to appear at least once a year in order for the Terry Nation estate to be allowed to use them. That's why the crushed Dalek appears in the "Wedding of River Song" for a minute as it had yet to be used that year.
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On the whole it hardly matters where you start if new to the show. Some episodes are better if you watch them in order, but as the Doctor would (and did) say: "First things first, but not necessarily in that order." (The 4th Doctor says those exact words and the 3rd Doctor says something very similar.)***
Tom Baker's, "Robot!" Nuff said! It starts small and builds with "Ark In Space" & "The Sontaran Experiment!" Love those stand-alone episodes; no arcs or continuing storylines during that period! Since Tom is the definitive 'Doctor,' you get to see him regenerate in "Robot," ending with "Logopolis" and his change into Peter Davison!
***There was an ever so tiny thread with that 1st season, but really all just to re-use the space station set. Other than that they were fairly independent. Those were some good years for stories.
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Back in the day, was it always Known that the Doctor was going to regenerate or a new actor would take on the role? I know there was no Internet back then so word didn't get around as quickly. But I think it would have been cool to watch a episode of Doctor Who back in the day and all a sudden dude starts regenerating.***
The first few years I wasn't talking to anyone about the show, so it was always a surprise to me when a new actor took over! Even my college roommate and I were happily surprised to see the change in "Logopolis!" It just seemed like Baker had gotten old overnight; it was his time to go! He looked good laying there after fall! Both of us looked at one another to say, "welllll!" Davison was a doll after dealing with old men Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, & Hurndall ("The Five Doctors") in the roles!
***I'm not sure what to make of "Logopolis." It's sometimes brilliant and sometimes terrible. I love the atmosphere of part 1; sombre and threatening, but when the Master steps out of the shadows it does rather fall apart. The literally-flushing-the-Master-out-of-the-Tardis scene must be one of the worst ideas in the history of Dr Who.***
It was around this period in the series I considered dropping DW! Delgado's Master was starting to be more a pest in the Pertwee era, showing up behind plot after plot there for a while! Now Ainley who had taken over the role was being over utilized starting in season 18! He had just caused havoc in "Logopolis," only to show up again in the following episode of "Castrovalva!" I stayed with it though and marveled how they could explain The Master appearing out of nowhere, even trapped in the past w/o a TARDIS! With all that "time and space" between them, he continued to be a thorn in the Doctor's side!
***Rating the Doctors - Not to say that any of them were bad of course. They all did good jobs.
ReplyDelete1) Christopher Eccleston & Matt Smith (tie)
2) John Hurt
3) Paul McGann
4) Colin Baker
5) Tom Baker
6) Peter Davison
7) David Tennant
8) Jon Pertwee
9) Sylvester McCoy
10) William Hartnell
11) Patrick Troughton
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No none of them were bad, but I think It's a bit unfair to include Hurt.
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So pretend I didn't list him and bump those beneath him up by one. :P
I am not going to discount him just b/c he's played by a famous actor; was still a legitimate incarnation in my eyes and gave a performance with its own merits just like those of all the others'.***
For some reason, I totally agree! The funny thing is, after all these years, it's McGann I haven't really embraced as "The Doctor!" Hurt really affected me in the role! I loved it! That shot at the end with all the Doctor's incarnations was quite moving to see! Hurt's looking out into space still makes me a little verklempt just visualizing it!
***The Master's Constant Returning in the 80s - I quite like the fact that the Doctor has a Moriarty figure, the Daleks are great and all but (imo) a character such as The Doctor needs that type of dark reflection of himself to fight against, so until they come up with a new character who adequately fulfills the criteria The Master is probably still the best person for the job!***
What you guys mentioned about the 80's and Ainley's Master is true enough, but it isn't the first time the franchise has overdone him! You forget Pertwee had to deal with Delgado's Master again and again! He could travel anywhere at any time, but he decided to maroon himself on Earth as well so he could taunt and undermine The Doctor! It was so ridiculous finding The Master behind plot after plot even when it included other villains like The Sea Devils and Silurians!
***I liked Clara a lot in The Snowmen, and thought she was going to become one of my favorite companions, but so far she's been rather one dimensional/flat - the impossible girl who likes children and saves the Doctor.***
Clara's definitely more insufferable than Amy and Donna! She's supposed to be so "with it," but still makes up an imaginary BF for her family to chew on! He has to drop everything to deal with that kind of nonsense?
***How old is the new Doctor; 60 or 80 years old? I don't think most people would think 55 is all that old. Besides, they have had older people play the Doctor at the beginning of a new regeneration. Look at the 3rd Doctor.***
It was shocking to go from a child to an old geezer like that! lol! He might not be that old, but he looks every year of it and more! I'm the same age and I know I don't look that old; well "Black don't crack" as they say!
***"The Time Of The Doctor" was a fantastic special with only one big flaw - I seem to be in minority here, but overall I found this years Xmas Special to be a highly enjoyable step up from last year. I thought the setup of the episode was fascinatingly well done for an enigmatic sci-fi series, and I was fully satisfied with the conclusion to the long-running Silence arc. The one thing that really lowered the episode from it's full potential for me were the out of place montages with cheesy narration a that someone in the production insisted on interrupting the story with. The seige of Trenzalore, which is really the only consequential piece remaining from The "Name Of The Doctor" at this point, as well as the 'Endless Bitter War' that was teased by Madame Kovarian, and that we so brilliantly are told was going on the whole time is cut down to a few fast forwarded seconds. Other than this, my only real gripe with the episode was the big apocalyptic cain-twirly regeneration sequence which ended up feeling totally out of place with the fantastic regeneration sequence that followed.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I thought of as a negative element when first watching the episode was the apparent retconning of Trenzalore as the Doctor's final resting place. However, as this episode addressed that element head on, and then proceeded to give us the 'twist' ending that everyone knew was coming. I now find that the "Name Of The Doctor" works quite well as an alternate future that the Doctor sees and acts upon before someone from ANOTHER universe alters his universe's time stream. I can fully accept that time is self contained within each of the universes and therefore can be altered w/o the 'it always happened' conundrum.
The last criticism I've seen brought up is the seeming plot hole in which the Silence blew up the TARDIS in order to prevent the Timelords from crossing through the cracks caused by the TARDIS explosion. However I see this more as the Timelords were always coming and the Silence simply created a stronger way for them to spread there signal; an example of time loops building upon each other.
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After 10 seconds of the new Doctor - Peter Capaldi is the best actor in terms of his resume and critical acclaim prior to taking the role out of anyone who has played the Doctor since the new version starting with the 9th Doctor began. He is a brilliant actor in anything I've seen him in and I'm sure he will be an amazing Doctor. Also his look is reminiscent of Jon Pertwee's 3rd Doctor, arguably the best of the classic Doctors. To judge him so critically on literally 10 seconds of screen time is hilariously moronic.***
Gawd, he appeared OLD! Couldn't they use more make-up and maybe stand back a little? I thought it was Pertwee come back from the grave for a hot sec.!
***If you liked 'Day,' did you like 'Time?' - I adored 'Day,' but 'Time' was just so-so to me. That middle section was just sort of slow and strange; a lot of telling instead of showing.***
I agree with you more, preferring "Day!" I can watch it over and over with Hurt! Been a fan of his since the 70's with "Naked Civil Servant!" He wasn't long for "Alien," but he's always been quite memorable in his parts!
***Is BBC America always so terrible? - I watched The "Day of the Doctor" in theaters. I was at a friends house for Xmas and they are all fans of Doctor Who and had cable. We decided to watch ToTD when it aired at 9 and man was the experience terrible. I was expecting commercial breaks, but these were played at the absolute worst spots. The worst part to me was that they didn't even show the proper credits.***
It's been like that for a while now! I'm old and continue to tape them to VHS format! Hate when credits are clipped like that going into promo for the next program!
***Rank The Doctors, fave to least fave:
ReplyDelete1. Tom Baker (The 1 incarnation I'm sure actually was an alien; the actor too)
2. M. Smith (A true mad man in a box)
3. P. McGann (Get the audio dramas)
4. P. Troughton (Fun and devious)
5. C. Eccleston (Fantastic)
6. S. McCoy (Wished we got more of the Cartmel Masterplan)
7. J. Hurt (Dude fought the Daleks)
8. W. Hartnell (Intriguing. Better as the mysterious character in the background)
9. Jon Pertwee (Enjoyed, but dry. Would have preferred the Brig as the main character)
10. C. Baker (Loud, fun, but an ass. Got better. Needed 1 more season; better attire)
11. P. Davison (he felt dull to me)
12. D. Tennant (by the end I WANTED him gone)
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Who's worse: Adric or Wesley Crusher? - Westley Crusher. He participated in a cover up from a massive stunt that got a classmate killed, then became some kind of hippie and ultimately turned into some kind of a God. Sorry, he beats Adric by several orders of magnitude. At least Adric died in a final hopeless attempt to save the dinosaurs.***
True enough about Wesley, but I fault him more for "causing" more problems than he solved with his experiments! When he screws up, he reverts back into a kid trying to avoid informing mommy of his errors! So much for maturity with either of them! Adric was just annoying, always with the questions, then whining about going home by "Earthshock" where we lost him; the only time I really cried! I still get a little "verklempt" thinking about that ending after all these years! Very well done with silent running of credits!
***Is River Song Ever Coming Back? - Her story is told, we know who she is, her relationship with the Doctor, and how she dies. But having said that, I would like to see her appear again. She doesn't need to be the focus of the episode, just an extra companion.***
Some future Doctor will probably have reason to go pull her out of "the library" computer somehow! It'll be cheesy; esp. when she'll be much old, but they'll explain it away! Hopefully I'll be long gone! Never a fan! The show can only handle one ego-maniac at a time as far as I'm concerned!
***Now I've never been the biggest Paul Darrow fan; he tends to overact a bit. But I think he would of been brilliant as The Master in the 80s. He's probably too old now, but do you think He would of been good as The Master back in the 80s, if say he had regenerated from Anthony Ainley in '86 or so?
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I loved him as Avon in "Blake's 7." Regardless of anything else he created one of the greatest tv characters of all time. Terry Nation even said that that he didn't write Avon that way. He originally wrote him as a dull character, but Darrow made him into the best character in the show.
If he played the Master like he did Avon in the earlier series as a cold, calculating, ruthless character who only cares about himself and is 2 steps ahead of everyone else, that would be excellent. However if he went overboard like he did as Maylin Tekker, then it would be dreadful. I think he would probably take the role more seriously than him. I think he only hammed up Tekker so much b/c the script was so obviously poor and w/o his hammy performance, most of "Timelash" would have been boring.***
I never wanted to see the Master again, but I can live with his return if they drag Darrow out to play the part! Not like he was a fave of mines on "Blake's 7," but I put the show right up there with "DW!" Loved how they got in and got out with not too many story arcs to remember! The episodes were so short; 50 min. when I taped them from PBS back in the mid 80's! Loved it! Terry Nation lives! Maybe bring back Jacqueline Pearce back as Romana!
***Judge the Doctor's age.
ReplyDelete1. Lived for over 450 years as the 2nd Doctor said he was 450 or something like that when he was born.
2. Lived for what we saw 3 years as Jamie was with him the whole time so he was 3 when he died, unless you consider Paul Cornell's season 6B canon in which case he lived for longer.
3. Lived for 300 hundred years as 4 was 700 when he started meaning 300 years have taken place between 2 and 4. Considering 2's short life it must have mostly taken place in 3's time. In between "The Green Death" & "The Time Warrior" he could have spent hundreds of years traveling as he had no companion unlike 2 who had Ben and Polly or Jamie.
4. Lived for 197 years as he was 700 to begin with whilst 6 was 900 when he started and 5 had a short life.
5. Lived for 3 years as like 2, he was never w/o a companion, so his life was what we saw.
6. Lived for 53 years as he was 900 when he started and 7 was 953 when he started.
7. Have no idea, but he at least lived for what, say 3 yrs?
8. No idea he could have lived for any long time, but in spin of material, he at least lives for 100 yrs.
The War Doctor presumably lived for over 400 years as the 1st Doctor died of old age unlike the others who were cut down in their prime. John Hurt who also died of old age lived that long too. Though later incarnations might have longer lives than the first as Matt Smith evidently lived longer, so the War Doctor could have lived for 900 years.
9. Lived for 1 year. When we first see him he has recently changed he comments on his ears and Moffat said he views 9 as a recently born Doctor in Rose. After that he travels with Rose the whole time so he is a young Doctor.
10. Lived for 6 years including the year that never was.
11. Lived for hundreds and hundreds of years, a full life like the War and the 1st Doctor.
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Your math is correct, but the problem with it is that the 3rd Doctor is never alone, and there is no way for him to age substantially. The 4th Doctor says he is only 749 and life doesn't start until 750 but he may have been joking. The only gap where he could age substantially is between Deadly Assasin and "Face Of Evil" (and he CLEARLY did a lot then because of the effects of "Face Of Evil" itself).
There is no gap in 5's time, and 6 is a big mess but it doesn't seem that way. There could have been any length of time for 7, as you say, same with 8. I expect aging for a time lord is more about energy loss or damage or whatever than actual time, though there is a reference in "Leisure Hive" for how long it takes a Time Lord to LOOK old. The Doctor also got rejuvenated there too.
It is strongly implied that Ecleson's Doctor turns up right after the events of "Day of the Doctor" and based on the episode Rose, he immediately turns up on Earth after that regeneration.
(This means that the Moment didn't just pick from the Doctor's future, it picked her IMMEDIATE future, and may have affected the Doctors decision to pick Rose to begin with.)
And he's w/ Rose the entire time, so no Gap. 10 has 2 gaps and 11 has one in story gap. Amy and Rory as well as Clara were companions; he went back to visit so time is arbitrary.
There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that the Doctor no longer has any idea how old he actually is, but there is a strong case that 2, 3, 5 & 9 were limited to the time we see on screen. The others could have been any length of time one might pick.***
***Most adult/horrific episode, new Who and old? - School Reunion: Features a child being eaten alive before the opening credits.**
ReplyDeleteI have to go look it up, but Peter Davison was in an episode dealing with Sea Devils and Silurians, and by the end, everyone was dead besides him and his companions; Turlough and Tegan! IIRC it was in an undersea base and the Doctor had no choice but to knock them off! It was "Warriors Of The Deep!"
***If I recall there were still human survivors on the base and it was they who used the reptile killing gas on the Silurians/Sea Devils whilst the Doctor vainly tried to reason with them. I always thought that Davison's Doctor was just a little too wishy washy in many ways; contrast that with Colin Baker's annihilating the Vervoids.***
You're right; 1 or 2 humans besides Turlough and Tegan survived! In "Family Of Blood," could he have been more vengeful at the end? It didn't bother me, but sympathy, kindness, and forgiveness went out the window! lol! They deserved it though!
***The Evanescent Planet Gallifrey
-Eccleston's DW: "I killed off my entire race and the Daleks. I feel incredibly guilty."
-David Tennant's DW: "The End of Time:" The Time Lords found a way to survive the Great Time War. However the Time Lords are evil. "I can not allow them to return and take over the universe."
-Smith's DW: "Day of The Doctor:" Gallifrey survived the Great Time War in a pocket universe. The Time Lords aren't so evil after all. I'm going to make it my life's mission to search and rescue them.
Matt Smith's DW: "Time of the Doctor:" "I'm wandering the universe with a Cyberman's head as a companion ala Wilson. I completely forgot that I made it my life's mission to find Gallifrey."
"The Time Lords have found a way for me to rescue them, but I can not seem to be able to do that just now."
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Galifrey was about to crush the Earth. It was either A) losing the Earth at the cost of the entire TimeWar coming through the gate ( which was why he initially destroyed it ) plus mad Rassilon and his gang who were still going to fulfill his Final Sanction (aka destroying the Universe) - or B) moving on. He chose B)
That was admittedly a bit stupid of the Doctor talking about making it his life's work in finding Gallifrey. I mean he leaves "The Day of the Doctor" with a cliffhanger stating Galifrey was his "destination," "where he was going, where he had always been going," obviously full of fire and passion to find it. And then we cut to "The Time of the Doctor" where blatantly says "Galifrey is lost in another Universe, it cannot be saved," but I'll just pass it off as a goof and choose B) moving on as well. I didn't like "Time of the Doctor," nor will I ever. I will leave it, past behind me, and look at the brighter future of Capaldi's 1st season. I suggest you do the same as well.***
***Classic-series characters you would like to see return? What companions (or supporting characters of any sort) from the classic series would you like to see return in the new series?
ReplyDelete---
Jamie is the #1 character I want back. He was the longest serving companion. He grew so much with the Doctor and to have his memories erased was just so sad. I know there is the whole 6B thing but it doesn't fully work for me and I would love a more emotional reunion between the Doctor and an older Jamie.***
I never got into the other formats of the show, so Romana would be the most logical choice for me! Someone said she went back to Gallifrey and became Lord President! The last I saw of her was in "Warrior's Gate" and was left in E-Space with K-9 II!
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***Immortality goes beyond just being able to regenerate over and over. What Borusa was seeking in "The Five Doctors" doesn't even contradict what Troughton said about Time Lords being able to live forever "barring accidents," b/c that's only virtual immortality. True immortality is like what Jack Harkness has; not even injuries or illnesses can kill him.***
It's been a while, but I have a faint recollect of the "Time Lords" all being linked through the Matrix; controlled by the crown, septor, and sash handed down by Rassilon! The Lord President has the power to grant more regenerations; maybe taking them from someone else! Rassilon obviously made sure there would be no extended stay for some meglomaniac; hense 4 heads of past Presidents who were looking for immortality in his tomb!
***...it's been a while since I watched "The Five Doctors" and in "Time Of The Doctor" it could be anything from a thank you for saving Gallifrey or maybe they just knew that they had to, seeing as all 13 Doctors showed up to save Galifrey; might have just been a necessity to grant the Doctor more regenerations.
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Just got the box set of the "regenerations" and would like to have some sort of list drawn up, from the best to the worst, just so that I know what to expect.
Classic Series:
"Caves of Androzani" is generally considered the best, and is regularly voted by fans as one of the top Classic Who stories ever.
"The War Games" is long but good, and is very well regarded.
After that it gets a bit tricky b/c there's much more variation of opinion on the quality of the following stories:
"Planet of the Spiders" has some problems, mainly with the parts of the story that are set on the eponymous planet of the spiders - it is a place of bad acting and cheap costumes and sets.
"Logopolis" is interesting and has a good regeneration sequence, but few people rate it as a great serial.
"The Tenth Planet" features the 1st appearance of the Cybermen, but many people have criticised it for being kind of boring, plus its last episode is missing so it has an animated episode instead; something which not everybody likes.
"Doctor Who: The Movie" has good production values and a good performance by Paul McGann, but its script is heavily criticised, as is the performance of Eric Roberts as the Master.
"Time And The Rani" is generally considered to be one of the worst serials in the show's history, and Colin Baker would not come back to film a regeneration scene (can't blame him, he was treated badly)so the regeneration itself is kind of crappy.
For the post 2005 series, "Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways" I think is considered better than "The End Of Time," but opinions tend to vary.***
...The last I saw of Romana was in "Warrior's Gate" and she was left in E-Space with K-9 II!
ReplyDelete***Romana being Lord President of Gallifrey was established in the animated miniseries of "Shada," which was webcast shortly before the new series began, and was made as a canonical continuation of the TV series, starring the 8th (at that time, the current) Doctor.
Given that the animated Shada fits the criteria for canonocity ...and it even was released as part of the main DVD range on disc two of the Tom Baker "Shada" ep. I have always considered it to be an official continuation of the actual TV show, even before "Night Of The Doctor" made the Big Finish audios implicitly canon. Thus, I assume that in the current reality of the show, Romana is still on Gallifrey, or at least was prior to the Time War. At the very least, she was back from E-Space, although how she got back is never fully explained. That would actually make her return a lot easier to arrange, particularly given the new plot developments surrounding Gallifrey!***
I watched a minute or 2 of "Shada" on You-Tube, but just never got into it! I thought it was a bunch of out-takes pasted together; thought it was a joke perpetrated by someone!
***The animated 8th Doctor one? Nah, it's real, alright! The animation certainly looks low-budget and primitive, but you have to keep in mind that it was flash animation done for web in the early-2000s; was the best they could do given the circumstances! I actually quite like the art design, though- and Paul McGann and Lalla Ward are both great in their roles, and have fantastic chemistry.
If you can get around the animation, I highly recommend it: a great puzzle piece linking the '96 movie and the new series, and it's awesome to have another on-screen serial with McGann as the 8th Doctor, even if it is just low-budget animation.
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I'm not a huge fan of Amy Pond. I didn't mind her all that much. "The Eleventh Hour" is still one of my all time favorites. But as far as companions go, I like Clara much better.***
Both Amy and Clara are just as annoying! The Doctor can he trying to save a planet, but they are so needy, both nag him more than a wife! "I need a BF for Xmas dinner!" Stupid!
***Who is the Curator? - I think perhaps he was a creation in the same manner of the Valeyard. Perhaps when the 13th Doctor is trying to find a way to break the 12 regeneration limit, he not only creates the Valeyard but also gives life to some of his past incarnations.***
I've watched that scene many times, and it hits me hard every time! The closing shot with music and all the Doctors standing there just makes me so "verklempt!" Can't help it!
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"An Adventure In Space And Time" - What was the deal with Matt Smith having a cameo at the end of the movie? What was that all about? Got me as "verklempt" as any multi-Doctor episode! I don't know why it affects me like that each time they do it! Seeing Tom really broke me up in "Day Of The Doctor!"
***The word you are looking for is nostalgia.***
***Anyone else find the 1st Doctor too unlikable and cold? - I think the only Doctors that really carried that over from Hartnell were T Baker, C Baker, & Smith. It's just in the case of Tom and Matt, their humor and silliness were a counterbalance to their dark side. Hartnell mellowed a bit as the series wore on, but always remained somewhat gruff.***
ReplyDeleteHe was old, doddering, and sick during that period; '63-'66, then '72 sitting in for "The Three Doctors!" I'm just glad he performed well enough that it wasn't cancelled! Colin had his moments as well; what was his excuse?
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The classic era was being undermined by the actual producers back then if you look at it's history! It was on shoestring budgets where I heard the actors and crew often had to bring in junk from their homes and garages to supplement the staging!
***Regeneration Limit - The Time Lords did offer the Master a new set of regenerations in "The Five Doctors," so I suppose it doesn't violate the continuity of the classic series for them to do the same for the Doctor.***
The only thing that violates it in my mind is believing The Time Lords would listen to Clara's plea; esp. about "loving The Doctor!" IIRC! There was nothing but animus, thinking him a rogue figure; equivalent to The Master!
***Can't agree more! - That's true... prior to the point where The Doctor is the one who saved Gallifrey from certain destruction in "TDOTD," and clearly was the only person capable of finding them and restoring the planet.
Several times throughout the classic series, the Time Lords called on the Doctor to bail them out of an esp. bad situation b/c they knew he could get it done. No, they still didn't like him, and only begrudgingly and nervously enlisted his help, but they at least respected what he could do.
But by this point, when he literally has become THE person who single-handedly saved their planet from destruction, I have no trouble believing that they're now very happy with him indeed. Love is probably still a strong word, but he's entirely to thank for saving their planet, culture, and collective lives.
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What are your opinions on every Doctor?
1. Liked his grandfatherly, crotchety ways, but not very alien.
2. Silly & clever, established the quirky style Doctor. Very likeable.
3. My fave for his intelligence, strength, and his rarely seen soft side.
4. The iconic Doctor, expanding the Troughton quirkiness and cementing the character.
5. Too human, too dull, but an all around nice guy.
6. I liked his arrogance and colorful personality. I like assertive Doctors.
7. Hated him at 1st, but came to enjoy him towards the end, esp. with Ace.
8. Charming and likeable in the movie, but not very Doctor like, which happend later.
9. My other fave, damaged, bitter, but showed a cathartic progression I loved.
10.Hipster Doctor #1, fun, playful, a bit too melodramatic; great ride.
11.Hipster Doctor #2, childlike, playful, a bit too manic; great ride.
12.TBD - but I'm hoping for more like 3,6,9 - a bit serious, arrogant and militant.
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1 - Very mysterious. Love the eps of his that I've seen.
2 - Great. I love how he can be goofy one 2nd, than intense the next.
3 - My fave of the classic series. So very professional and grand.
4 - Like you said, much more alien than others. Love the "I walk in eternity" line
...
8 - I haven't listened to any of the audio stories but he's one of my faves based just on the movie & NOTD War - Won me over as one of my faves in the very little we saw of him.
9 - My all time fave Doctor as he was my intro to the show
10 - Good, but a bit overrated tbh. I don't know; maybe it was that he didn't have as good of stories.
11 - Definitely grew on me and became one of my faves. See what I said about 2.***
***Question about the Borg - There is no official origin in "canon." There's a theory that the machine planet in TMP is the Borg homeworld, but I don't think its a very good theory.***
ReplyDeleteThe 1st time Picard had an encounter with the Borg was due to Q being a little malicious! He actually gave them early warning by moving the Enterprise into Delta quandrant to experience dealing with the Borg!
***ITA; always viewed Qs actions as doing them a favor, by making them aware. I often wonder if he was actually looking out for The Enterprise in his warped way.
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I've often thought the Borg started out as a friendly collective until the Borg Queen joined the collective. being that she was insane, she took over control of all the others.
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Rank all decades for DW - (70s)---The Best
1970-'74 The Pertwee years were great, but '74-'79 Baker era was even better
(1960s)---2nd Best, '63-'66 was great with my 2nd fave Doctor Hartnell
(1980s pt 1)---Ok, Mixed Bag I would say the 1980-'81 so the 2nd half of Baker's S17 and The whole S18 were very good
(1980s pt 2)---I will put this separate b/c I think Davison's 1981-'84 reign was overall good, but I don't think it matched Baker's final 2 yrs
(2005)------I think the '05 season with Eccleston was much better than both the 1984-'86 C Baker yrs and the 1987-'89 McCoy yrs
(1980s pt 3)-----McCoy was ok, sometimes weak, sometimes mediocre
(2005-'10)---Tennant's era while I am not a fan was pretty good, I prefer older though
(1996)---The Movie Was ok, I wish McGann did more
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As others have said, "Destiny Of The Daleks" gets off to a bad start with Romana's regenerstion (although "Night of the Doctor" has probably provided a possible explanation for how she could. ("try on" bodies) It's a good, if formulaic Nation story let down by the Movellans, and sadly Terry Molloy's Davros just isn't as effective as Michael Wisher's.***
Funny, Davros is Davros! It never mattered to me who portrayed him! The character never changed regardless of the makeup, mask, and actor used in each ep.! I wonder why it did make such a difference to people?
***Partly b/c Michael Wisher nailed the part in "Genesis" and, for me personally, it's also b/c I can't stand the Davros mask that Terry Molloy wore.
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The importance of the Doctor? - A great script still needs at least a good actor to pull them off, and even Sir Ben Kingsley can't save some of the movies he's in, but his own performances are typically great.***
If you looked at "Time & Space" which chronicled Hartnell's beginning as the Doctor, the show has always been in jeapardy; actors leaving, shoe-string budgets, etc.! I even heard cast and crew brought in junk from their homes or garages to use in the show! It's a wonder it's lasted so long and things always seem to work out; even with Colin as the star way back when!
***It was essentially Hartnell's faltering health and general difficulty to work with that ultimately gave us the show we know today. If he had been less cranky, or they put up with him until the show was less popular, they wouldn't have bothered regenerating him at all.
The show got nothing for a budget. The whole 'trapped on Earth' thing for the 3rd Doctor was essentially a money saving decision. As the show gained in popularity, it got more money, and was in good shape by the time Tom Baker took over; things got even better. While I enjoyed Peter and Sylvester (and have great sympathy for the disaster Colin Baker walked into) the show never quite regained its footing after that. It doesn't matter how good the actor is or isn't, if behind the scenes its a "gong show."
The show also benefits greatly from the fact that decent monster effects and movie quality CG are all quite affordable now, providing some fantastic effects the old show could only dream of.***
***What kind of Doctor Who fan do you consider yourself?
ReplyDeleteBackground: My 1st experience with DW was the Peter Cushing film, "Doctor Who and the Daleks" which I saw as a 6 or 7 y.o. The Daleks scared the bejesus out of me, most of it I couldn't recall til I saw it again a few years ago, and that was after I saw "The Daleks," which of course was the basis for the non-canonical movie.
My 1st DW proper were the Tom Baker serials that PBS in the States aired in the early 80s; I saw a handful of those. Later in the decade I watched a couple of the McCoy serials. My interest in DW has developed over the last 7 or 8 yrs. Through Netflix, I started watching the classic series from the beginning as I began p/up DVDs to own, starting with the Tom Baker years as he is "my" Doctor.
Classic Who: Fave Doctors, most to least: Tom Baker, McCoy, Pertwee, Troughton, Davison, Colin Baker, Hartnell. B/c I don't have the exp. of having "grown up" w/ any of the Doctors, I don't have the sense of having seen the show grow as I'm essentially experiencing it retrospectively. The Tom Baker Era is my favorite b/c I think the series was at the height of its powers under the Philip Hinchcliffe-Robert Holmes direction, although Season 16, the Key to Time season, is my favorite. D4's companions in this time--Sarah Jane, Leela, my absolute favorite Romana Mk. I, and Romana Mk. II--are all among my favorites. The last 2 seasons of McCoy's era are I think overlooked gems and really are the transition to NuWho.
DW in the 60s strikes me as slow and ponderous. Hartnell eventually grew a little on me, but I never really warmed up to him even though I'll probably p/up "The Meddling Monk" and a couple of others at some point. Troughton is delightful, but I feel robbed that so many of his serials are not available; I've got "The Mind Robber" and "The Krotons" (largely because Holmes wrote it) and would pick up a few more from his time. Pertwee's time is uneven--his 1st season, with Liz Shaw as the companion, is terrific. Tom Baker's time is marred only by Douglas Adams's reign as script editor although "The Creature from the Pit" is a guilty-pleasure fave. Davison's time is such a muddle, and DW was becoming a body-count epic by now. Colin Baker was, I thought, just the kick in the pants DW needed, but apart from "Vengeance on Varos" and parts of "Trial of a Time Lord," he had a tough go of it. So did McCoy during his 1st season, but his next 2 (the alleged "Cartmel Masterplan") are golden. The '96 movie with Paul McGann is fine although it does seem like what an American version of DW would look like.
Classic Who vs. NuWho: When the reboot became available in the US in '06, I watched the first 3 seasons. The differences btw new and old were immediately obvious even as my classic-Who exp. was pretty limited at that time. When the channel that initially carried NuWho stopped carrying it, I stopped watching b/c I didn't get the new channel.
Maybe it's b/c the classic series doesn't have any apparent hanky-panky going on in the TARDIS--well, I'm not so sure about D6 and Peri, or D7 and Ace--whereas that does seem to be the order of the day for NuWho.
I have just finished up the 1st season of NuWho after not seeing it for years. I really do like Eccleston as the Doctor although he didn't get many good stories. God, "Dalek" is worse than I remembered, although I really like "The Unquiet Dead," "The Empty Child," and "Bad Wolf" the best. I'm moving onto David Tennant's 1st season and will go from there. That's just the kind of fan I am.***
***The Master's most evil scheme? - Well Blackmailing the universe in "Logopolis" has to be the worst thing. He was prepared to destroy the entirety of creation.***
ReplyDeleteThat truly was the worst! Through his evil deeds we lost planets and people, but it didn't stop his meglomania! Whatever sympathy you had for him and his plight had to be ignored after that! He had no mercy in his heart and his endeavors took precedent over all else! I guess you could say the Rani was just as merciless; absolutely no heart even though they're supposed to have 2!
***How many times has the Doctor saved the universe? So far I have got:
The Three Doctors, Omega would have most certainly destroyed the universe had it not been for the 3 Doctors.
Genesis of the Daleks, the Time Lords said the Daleks would have destroyed the universe had it not been for the 4th Doctor fk'n with their timeline.
Pyramids of Mars, Sutekh was probably the most powerful foe the Doctor ever faced. He was like a living reality Bomb and may have even destroyed other universes. He certainly would have destroyed ours. Even the Time Lords couldn't stop him.
The Armageddon Factor, the Black Guardian would have torn the universe apart with the Key to Time.
The Invasion of Time, the Sontarans would have destroyed every single universe had it not been for the Doctor using the Time Lords power.
Logopolis, obviously The Master would have caused the end of the Universe had it not been for the Doctor.
Stolen Earth/Journey's End, the 10th Doctor obviously saved every universe, though to be fair he was so useless most of the work should go to his companions.
The End of Time, this one we can give to Tennant who saves every universe from the Time Lords.
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang, he saves every universe from destruction and rebuilds it too.
The Wedding of River Song, I am not sure I am going to count this one as I don't think River would have let the universe really die.
So far I have 9 times, 4 of which were saving every universe.
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He also brought an end to the Time War, which threatened all of reality. Although I'm not sure if that counts, since he seemingly wasn't the one who time-locked the War, he just ended it. But the universe would still be disintegrating if it weren't time-locked. - Fun fact: This also means that when the Great Intelligence invaded the Doctor's time scar in "The Name of the Doctor," the universe started to die this many times at once in this many different ways.
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5 "Doctor Who" choices for a Time Capsule?
1. An Adventure in Space and Time
2. Genesis of the Daleks
3. City of Death
4. The Five Doctors
5. The Day of the Doctor***
I find no reason to make addition or subtraction! Nice job!
***The Kaleds seen in Genesis of the Daleks are Nazis in all but name.
ReplyDelete---
I'm very sceptical of that statement. Only Davros and the ghastly Nyder appear to me to be Nazis; most of the other Kaleds that we got to know were quite good guys.
The Kaled Squad Leader who was the only one enthusiastic about Sarah's escape plan, and later sacrificed himself to stop and help Sarah when she was struggling and was killed as a result.
Ronson, the scientist who risked everything to help the Doctor and Harry to escape from the bunker to expose Davros to the Kaled people and was executed by Davros.
Mogran, the high level Gov't minister who took the trouble to listen to the Doctor's concern about Davros and the Daleks and later agreed to close down Davros's Dalek project.
Gharman, Kavell, and many others who initially covertly opposed Davros, helped the Doctor and Harry and later staged an open revolt against Davros.
On the other hand the Thals were hardly good guys. They committed genocide with their explosive packed rocket; made Sarah and the other prisoners work w/o protective clothing exposing them to radiation. One soldier held Sarah over the edge of the rocket gantry and threatened to send her crashing down hundreds of feet, etc.
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That's an interesting analysis. I think that b/c of the events of The Daleks, there's a tendency to see the Thals as the good guys, but 'Genesis' does bring that into question. In The "Daleks," the Thals say that before the war they were farmers and the Daleks/Kaleds were teachers and philosophers, perhaps the centuries of war had brutalised the Thals while the Kaleds, apart from Davros and Nyder had managed to retain their principles. On the OP, they're not "Nazis" as such, but the RSF in "Inferno" are definitely fascist.***
I never considered the Thals as being good; in any way! They were given the formula to break down the Kaled dome and did just that instead of peacefully trying to deal with issues! It's hard to believe they wanted to do anything but conquer the Kaleds; totally annihilating them in the end except for Davros and his scientific bunker mates!
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***Why do people hate River Song so much? I'm honestly curious.***
There's only room for one ego-maniac in this show, and we all know both the Doctor and Song have huge ones! I believe there's some resentment that she knows more than him in a lot of these dramatic arc scenerios spanning multi-seasons/series!
***They crossed the line with her rambling on about how the Doctor isn't driving the Tardis properly since she criticizes him for leaving the parking break on being the cause of the cool sound the Tardis makes on landing, despite the fact that every OTHER Tardis or similar technologies every OTHER Time lord uses also makes the same sound. Apparently she is the only one in the entire history of Time lords that realized you needed to turn off the parking break before landing.***
***Which Story Feels Most Like a Classic Series Story? - Irrespective of what I personally think of them, I'd say that the following feel the most like classic Who:
ReplyDeleteThe Unquiet Dead - Gothic, Hinchcliffe-era style. Quite leisurely paced for a 45 min. story
New Earth - Feels like something ridiculous and glittery from McCoy's 1st series
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit - Not so much b/c it's an indirect sequel to Pyramids of Mars, but b/c it's virtually a remake of The Robots of Death
Human Nature/The Family of Blood - Really creepy, countryfied 2-parter, light on CGI and w/ a simple yet effective monster design
The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky - A Pertwee-era story in all but Doctor
The Waters of Mars - Classic base-under-seige stuff surprisingly light on explosive effects. Wouldn't be remotely jarring if you switched Tennant for Davison
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood - Again, near enough a remake of The Silurians, and w/ the pacing and tone of that story intact
The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People - 90 mins of running around in a bunker. Classic Who wasn't w/o its faults
Journey To The Centre of The TARDIS - Why Moffat commissioned a remake of Ep. 5 of The Invasion of Time is beyond me, but there it is
The Day of The Doctor - All the UNIT stuff, the spirit of The 3 Doctors and the historical Zygon romp; it's the offspring of the Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker eras***
I think most any "standalone" ep. has a classic feel and can be recast with a past Doctor; no problem! The thing about NuWho that makes them so different is the perpetual story arcs about "The Time War," River Song, and a 'crack in the wall!'
***Donna's only reason for being in the TARDIS is b/c she needs to be the Doctor Donna; use the Doctor's powers better than he ever could in the most important battle in the entire history of Doctor Who. She gets his powers, proves to be more worthy and effective with them, stomps his greatest foes in like 2 seconds, thinks of things 2 of him couldn't manage and says she is better; he can't accept it!***
I was never a fan of Donna's! Like some out here, I need for the Doctor's companions to be more than helpless damsels in distress who cause more problemss than they solve! Martha was a professional, Adric and Nyssa have obviously uses, Cap. Jack and Turlough were good techs, but Rose, Amy, Donna, & even Clara can't really do anything but wait to be rescued!
***Yes I agree, a companion who can help him like Sarah, Leela, Ace, River, Amy, Rory, the Brig and Ian and Barbara are always better. But there's a difference btw that and completely undermining him. I mean that's just a rule of fiction; Robin is a good sidekick for Batman (depending on the canon LOL), but I wouldnt want a Batman story where he becomes a better crime fighter and knocks the Joker out in 5 secs & tells Batman he's useless.
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I love Donna b/c "Sometimes you need someone to stop you." B/c up until Journey's End, she was a great companion, NOT besot with the Doctor, and someone truly worthy of being in the TARDIS with him.***
***The best Doctor doppelgänger - it annoys me that they have some big plan in place to explain how Capaldi can be the Doctor when he was also in "Fire Of Pompeii" and Torchwood, ..."Commander Maxill looks like the next Doctor... just cos!" I think they are better off just leaving it be with no explanation.***
ReplyDeleteMost true fans are just accepting of what happens! Early on, I definitely remember Colin Baker playing Commander Maxil in "Arc of Infinity"; didn't stop him from becoming the Doctor later!
***Fave story of each Doctor - Exlude multi-Doctor eps (except in the case of the War Doctor). These are mine:
First Doctor - "The Space Museum"
Second Doctor - "The Mind Robber"
Third Doctor - "The Green Death"
Fourth Doctor - "Genesis of the Daleks"
Fifth Doctor - "Resurrection of the Daleks"
Sixth Doctor - "The Ultimate Foe"
Seventh Doctor - "Remembrance of the Daleks"
Eighth Doctor - Doctor Who TV movie
War Doctor - "The Day of the Doctor"
Ninth Doctor - "Dalek"
Tenth Doctor - "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End"
Eleventh Doctor - "The Pandorica Opens"/The Big Bang"
Twelfth Doctor - "The Time of the Doctor"
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1st: The Daleks
2nd: The War Games
3rd: Inferno
4th: Genesis of the Daleks
5th: Enlightenment
6th: Revelation of the Daleks
7th: Greatest Show in the Galaxy
8th: Terror Firma
9th: Dalek
10th: Blink
11th: The Rings of Akhaten
12th: Day of the Doctor***
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Like some, the Daleks take over my list of faves:
1st Doctor - "The Aztecs" (read the novel 1st)
2nd Doctor - "The Tomb Of The Cybermen"
3rd Doctor - "Day Of The Daleks"
4th Doctor - "Genesis Of the Daleks"
5th Doctor - "Revelation Of The Daleks"
6th Doctor - "Resurrection Of The Daleks"
7th Doctor - "Remembrance Of The Daleks"
8th Doctor - Doctor Who TV movie
War Doctor - "The Day of the Doctor"
9th Doctor - "Bad Wolf"/"Parting Of The Ways"
10th Doctor - "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End"
11th Doctor - "The Pandorica Opens"/The Big Bang"
12th Doctor - "The Time of the Doctor"
***I want a FUGLY ALIEN COMPANION from a different time period next! - On the cat thread, I suggested one of those cat-people from New Earth.***
ReplyDeleteBefore finding out Clara had invaded the Doctor's time stream, it seemed more than plausible that he'd go back and save the Dalek of "Asylum Of The Daleks!" The only one he hasn't saved who helped him out is River Song who's still stuck in the "Library" computer!
***Is it even still possible to save River from the computer?***
Probably not, but you know how the show is; Strax and quite a few other villains showed up in "A Good Man Goes To War!"
***I'm with you man, instead of the usual female companion. I really hope the Doctor will rescue Dalek Clara. That will be an interesting combination; the Doctor and the "sexy" Dalek.
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Romana's 'regenerations' in Destiny Of The Daleks - It is unclear how old she is and never exactly explained why she would regenerate on a whim so we can only speculate.
1) If you are not in the middle of dying you can in fact pick your look with great precision.
2) Within a period of regenerating it is possible to change your look.
And the most speculative based on the idea that Romana was just barely over 100 as I recall, a recent college graduate of sorts based on conversations in the previous season and probably not far off whatever passes for puberty in Time Lord Society so.***
I'm pretty sure she mentioned her age the first time she met the Doctor after his consultation w/ "Black/White" Guardian for the "Keys To Time" story-arc! Tamm wanted out, refusing to be subservient to The Doctor so Lela Ward was held over from "The Armageddon Factor!" 'Destiny Of The Daleks' was a good start to a new season with Davros and The Daleks! To this day I'm not sure if The Time Lords had maneuvered him into going back to Skaro or was it happenstance?
***But best guess is that the Jacobi Master was the one that the High Council created.
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That's what I like to think, even if it was a younger version that was fighting in the Time War. Wanted more Jacobi Master. Now we have an older Doctor I would guess we'll get an older Master.***
But if that's the case, why is the Master "hiding out?" His consciousness was being held in a watch, just like when the Doctor was sorta "on the run" from "Family Of Blood!"
***Yes, well if the Jacobi Master was the one the High Council created, then he didn't fight in the Time War and in fact ran to the farthest reaches of time to get away from it. So the FOB watch was to be sure that even there he wasn't dragged back into the Time War. In other words the Master ran to the distant future and used a chameleon arch to hide himself once there.
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It has been suggested over the years that the "War Chief" and even 'Meddling Monk' may have been earlier incarnations of the Master.
- http://www.wordiq.com/definition/The_War_Chief -
I don't think the writers planned for the WC and Master to be the same person, more likely the War Chief was sort of a prototype for the future Master. I wouldn't be bothered if the show runners wanted to connect the 2 characters at some point though.
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Yeah a lot of the early stuff has been 'tweaked' to fit later ideas; origin of the Daleks, so there's no reason why the WC isn't the Master. I've often wondered if the The Valeyard could really be an incarnation of the Master, trying to pass a version of himself off as a Doctor?***
***The 8th Doctor - Moffatt chose not to have McGann as the war Doctor as he couldn't see his character being so involved in the Time War.
ReplyDelete---
B/c he wasn’t a fan of the big finish stuff, he assumed no one else but a few fans would be. The reality was that far from being a tiny niche following Mcgann's audio plays have kept big finish alive, for a long time outselling everything else on the website. - You're wrong; he does love Big Finish. The War Doctor was originally meant to be Eccleston, but he didn't want to do it.
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Well that's it then, conclusive proof, debate over, Moffatt loves Big finish b/c The war Doctor was supposed to be Chris!***
Sorry, even though I appreciated Fox producing that abomination of a movie almost 20 years ago, I can still take or leave '8!' Hurt playing the "War Doctor" took me back in so many ways! It was a great idea and produced quite well! Shocking!
***Pls don't assume I didn't like John hurt; he was brilliant in the part, but both Moffatt and the BBC saw Mcgann as a loose end rather than anything w/ a fanbase, and they were overwhelmed when fan response said other wise.
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Which Classic Who villain do you think was handled the best in New Who? - I like Tennant; he was just hamstrung by RTD's awful writing. The "I don't want to go" bit; awful. No other Doctor has whined like that and it was a betrayal to the character.***
Agreed! Even though I love the Daleks and have those eps highlighted on my list, they've been overdone since NuWho; sorry! When you have them jumpy and scaird of the Doctor; "come on!" Production seemed to go over to the "dark side" when you actually had Daleks disguised as humans in "Asylum!" I expected the Doctor to take Dalek Clara onboard the TARDIS; gotten so schmaltzy! All I could think was "who's writing this stuff?" Are Daleks cuddly now?
***Susan annoys the behind off me. All she does is scream all the time, whine and shout 'grandfather;' so annoying. What about you? Do you think she's worse than Adric?***
Nyah; she was portraying a "girl!" What did you want her to do "karate chop" and "judo throw" Yeti's around like Zoe or Leela? No one more annoying than Adric since he wasn't a moron like Tegan! She had reason "to be dim," but he was just a whiny kid in the end; wasn't missed after "EarthShock" either!
***Best and Worst of the Cybermen
best (old - Tomb Of The Cybermen)
- - (new - Nightmare In Silver)
worst (old - Attack Of The Cybermen)
- - (new - Revenge of the Cybermen)***
Even though I liked the stand alone production of "The Next Doctor," it embarrassed the legacy of the Cybermen yet again! They find a hateful woman to become their Cyber-Queen who in turn becomes a component to create a Cyber-King! Lame!
***Oh right, I forgot about "The Next Doctor" (and I was happy) that one can be my vote for worst too***
***Rumoured Series 8 episode titles...an Egyptian mummy loose on The Orient Express....IN SPACE!***
ReplyDeleteThey've come close to that scenerio in the past! When you have dinosaurs on a ship, all you can do is...'SMH!' We've had space vampires, a Frankenstein monster in "Morbius," and "Seeds Of Doom" was somewhat of a "rip off" of "The Thing!" "Midnight" follows the historic formula of movies I grew up watching! A space Titanic crashed into the TARDIS, ... I could go on! When a show's been on this long, what plotline hasn't been exploited; real or imagined by individuals?
***Are you my mummy? Oh, wait, wrong kind of mummy, never mind...***
That was one of the squishier episodes! The schmolz was nauseating; "everybody lives!"
***Do any of you know someone who's never seen 1 episode of DW, but claims "it's stupid" and refuses to watch? Nothing angers me more, esp. when they watch crap like the "Walking Dead" & "Survivor," and think their opinion on movies and shows is as important as Roger Ebert's. It's trivial, but it really grinds my gears. I just want more friends to talk "Who" with, so I don't have to always come here.***
I feel your pain! Years ago I had a club that met and watched episodes; now there's no one around to talk "Doctor Who!" People have moved on I guess! It's an iconic show, been on forever, but no one really mentions it like they used to; even the Simpsons! I don't think it's "jumped the shark," but how good is it for the series to go on hiatus like this again? Hard to talk about the show if it's not even in production, much less no telecasts!
***When did DW start gaining popularity...- No, the Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee episodes were not popular in the U.S. before the Tom Baker episodes aired in the U.S.***
I agree about Pertwee and Troughton! I had seen the 2 DW/Dalek movies back in the 60's as a kid, heard about the show since the mid 70's, but didn't start watching here in the States until after college in '79 with Tom Baker! They went back to Pat & Jon, but they weren't as entertaining, had missing episodes, and were monotonous at times; esp. with the Master showing up all through that era where Pertwee was marooned on Earth!
***Do you consider the Cushing movies canon - I don't, but my son does. We argue about it occasionally.***
Back in those days and "now," movies being made from tv, comics, or animated series almost always go off "canon!" They can't help themselves! Lately I've seen some movie productions try to stick to some "scenerios" and at times are extentions of the tv series; The Avengers, Batman, Green Latern, and Spiderman!
***Which are your fave tv shows besides Doctor Who?
I'll either watch my collection or what's replayed on cable! These are still good:
- Blake's 7
- Earth: The Final Conflict
- HBO's "OZ!"
- Law & Order franchise
- Leverage
- Golden Girls
- LA Law
- Hillstreet Blues
- NYPD Blue
- The Practice
- Boston Legal
- Maude
- Mission Impossible
- Bewitched
- All In The Family
- The Avengers w/ Mrs. Peel
- SCTV
- Monty Python's Flying Circus
- V
- Batman
***When the 1st Doctor solves Rassilon's puzzle in "The Five Doctors" while the others stand around getting it wrong, that says the Doctor is not only not as smart as he used to be, but he's never as smart as he used to be, diminishing every portrayal that came after.
ReplyDelete---
I dunno, I think it's more like the Doctor's mind works in different ways with each regeneration, I've read a few of the new adventures and, while I know they're not canon, the first one "TimeWyrm: Genesys" has the Doctor using the Tardis' telepathic circuits to reinstate the 3rd Doctor's mind b/c he had more expertise in a certain area than the 7th. Like I said, it's not canon, but yeah, that idea that his different incarnations would be better and worse at some things makes a kind of sense.***
The first Doctor just remembers puzzles and problems related to Gallifrey more; that's all! The others have just been away too long! Some of them haven't even returned before going into another regeneration! Hartnell had been on Galligrey for well over 400 years, grew up there with his mommy! From Troughton on, they barely stepped on the planet even when elected to the Presidency! Pertwee was in exile on Earth, Ec was too busy feeling guilty for what "The War Doctor" did, and the planet was no longer there for the rest; destroyed at first, then put in stasis!
I loved "The Five Doctors" and featured it on page of homage a few years ago! Any multi-Doctor episode is good in my book, but you had so many until of late when all 13 showed up briefly in "DOTD!" Even the 2 in "The Two Doctors" was great since it brought Jacqueline Pearce back into my life after "Blake's 7!"
***Hot ass in Who - Never got a good look at his derrière, but judging by his legs and general build, Jamie had a lovely bottom on him.
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A gay guy wanting to initiate a conversation about arses, why not stick to the acting/storylines...what's w/ gays and their need to reduce everything to gutter level.***
Awwwww, jealous? Keeping with the topic, Turlough had his moment in "Planet Of Fire!" Those hot little shorts and that redhair; even if it was fake, got me to sit up a little straighter (so to speak)! I have such a think for young redheads! Such a shock later to find out he was really blonde, but they thought it would be "too much" since Davison is too! I never particularly cared for him before that; like Andric, just a spoiled, smart-allecky little punk!
***Creepiest stuff you ever saw on Dr who...***
An episode that transported me back to my childhood because it was so creepy had to be "The Talons of Weng-Chiang!" You can't beat a giant rat in the underbelly of an old city, a masked character from the future called Magnus Greel, some kind of pig part called "Peking Homunculus," and a puppet that walked around with a knife cutting folks; Mr. Sin! It was the best even though produced on a lean budget! Poor Leela in that cockney outfit was amusing; savage girl in "My Fair Lady!"
***Creepiest thing about that episode was having a white actor play Weng-Chiang. His stereotypical portrayal bordered on hilarious. Watched it recently and thought to myself...OMG - "head-shake"***
Nothing new in that! I watched plenty of "Charlie Chan" movies as a kid sunday mornings! I was horrified later to find out Warner Oland was Swedish! At least when they went to Sidney Toler, he looked more Asian only to discover he was of Scotish ancestry!
***Just wondering will Jenny return - I hope not. Btw, she didn't regenerate - she was brought back to life by The Source...in other words, if something fatal happened to her, that would most likely be the end of her. So, is she even alive, somewhere out there? But basically, there's never been a peep about her since that episode. No mentions, no references, either in the show or out of it. I suspect it was always intended to be an open-ended story, but I suppose, you never know...***
ReplyDeleteSooner or later they'll have to bring her back; may take years! They never cease to amaze how they tie up loose end; even if it takes another Doctor to do it!
***Well, the option is always there for any showrunner who wants to, but I don't see why they have to revisit/resolve Jenny.
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"Ribos" is one of my top 10 Baker stories. I don't understand how it could be anyone's least liked. Ian Cuthbertson alone is worth the price of admission, and Holmes' writing is phenomenal throughout.***
I didn't have a problem with "Ribos," but a sister episode of "The Keys To Time" was the worst for me; "The Power Of Kroll!" I guess you can call it a homage to bad 50's horror genre movies!
***The Tenth Planet - Some scientists say it should be classified as a planet. A visit to it by the new Doctor could make a good story.***
I always thought there was a possibility of another planet or 2 further away! They were lucky to catch Pluto in '30 and b/c of physical laws, reasoned it was out there somewhere! There are some that don't think it should be thought of as a planet, sorta like Australia here on Earth being a continent! It barely qualifies I guess!
***I fear the company from the Sunmakers probably got there ahead of us and ruined it like they did Pluto.***
"SunMakers" was probably one of the first episodes I saw of Doctor Who! It really stood out, paying homage to other sci-fi movies where "Big Brother" tries to not only control everything but makes money off of it as well!
***Leela's final serial is "The Invasion of Time", which is a sequel to "The Deadly Assassin". At the end Leela stays behind on Gallifrey to pursue a romantic relationship w/ a Chancellery Guard Commander named Andred. - An interesting footnote: when the episode was being written, it was w/ an eye toward bringing her back for the story, and she was willing. The producers, however, decided that they would only bring her back if she would commit to the entire season, and she already had other commitments so couldn't do it.***
In real life she just wanted "off" the show! It was a shotty exit! I miss her!
***I know it custom to have a Multi-Doctor story for the anniversary, but why? Why does it have to be an ann. story? "The Two Doctors" wasn't an ann. story, and although it wasn't great, it was fun seeing '6' and '2' react with one another. W/ the recent petition going to get '8' back in a spin-off, what about having him return in a Multi-Doctor story instead. "The Two Doctors" '2' so to speak; w/ '8' and '12?'
ReplyDeleteThey could have the 8th return as a mini series btw the main series; i.e. they could do a series final where the Doctor encounters a Time Lord who's changing time (most likely the Monk), which results in the timeline changing to one in which the 8th Doctor didn't regenerate, (like the Dark Dimensions story idea, only not with the 4th). We could then have a 5/6 episode mini series in which '8' is trying to return the timeline back to normal, which when he succeeds results in him turning back into '12,' and back to business as usual.
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Well I think Nick Briggs explained the thing about Multi-Doctor stories. They're a lot of fun for fans and are really enjoyable, but they are never "the best stories." Even if you enjoy them, expectations are always a let down in a way.***
Multi-Doctor episodes are always good to me; just to see them together is enough! The last one, "DOTD" with all '13' made me quite verklempt, even though it lasted only a minute! I even featured "The 5 Doctors" on my homage page a few years ago! Bringing someone in with the gravitas of John Hurt even made it more emotional to me since I first saw him years ago just before I started watching 'DW' in '79! He was the lead in "The Naked Civil Servant;" an auto-bio of Quentin Crisp on PBS!
***Just finished watching "The Two Doctors" for the first time. I have to say that Shockeye has to be the most ridiculous villain I've come across yet. A reviewer on another website has likened him to a pervy old man at a fancy dress party. - Shockeye is another one of those villains who's well acted, but poorly written.***
I still watch and covet any multi-Doctor episode! Love seeing Jacqueline Pearce who played Chessene; an old villain from "Blake's 7," Servalan! Can re-watch anytime, even though the storyline dragged with Shockeye and his relentless hunger cravings and pains!
***The way the character's played, he's more Frankie Howard than Hannibal Lecter - Not a big fan of him either. The only scene I enjoyed was the one with him & Troughton in the restaurant. It was so ridiculous that it was actually funny and well it had Troughton.
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Shockeye is pretty broad, but considering that Colin Baker's tenure is pretty thin gruel overall, he and "The Two Doctors" constitute a highlight. Although his interaction with the 2nd Doctor is essentially non-essential indulgence, I do like how well John Stratton and Patrick Troughton worked together.***
***Coldest Doctor? - http://kristinecherry.com/blog_main/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/sleep%2 02.jpg ***
ReplyDeleteOCO, Colin Baker all the way! During his transition, he was pretty much psychotic; like some kind of dark, murderous cannibal! lol! Other people's death didn't affect him at all! It was how he was written to be the most arrogant and pompous of all the Doctors! It's how it's perceived and has been for as long as I can remember; Colin agreeing for the most part!
***Would you go with the Doctor? If you and the Doctor crossed paths for whatever reason, would you go with him if he asked you to join? Keep in mind you'd be leaving behind your family, friends, and would be in danger like 85% of the time.
Personally, I would love to travel w/ the Doctor and go on the many great adventures he does, but if he asked me to go w/ him, I would tell him Im staying where I am. Yes, it would be incredible, but I wouldn't be able to leave the ones I love behind, having them worry about me, and then coming back knowing what kind of threats are out there in the universe. That would be too much for me too handle. Maybe, I would go on one adventure, but I would have to come home.***
Not a chance! Most of the people who became companions were running from something! I was very satisfied with my life, traveled a lot, and only longed to be back home after just a few days! I was to stay in Europe for 3 or 4 weeks, make the rounds, but ended up going back home after only 10 day; would have been sooner, but I was with a friend! He missed his family so it was an easy decision!
***Try as I might, I can only think of one. Just one.***
Rose was running from boredom, Leela had nothing going on and was homeless, others lost family members like Nyssa and Tegan, ...I could go on! Hard to believe a true fan of "WHO" has no clue what I was talking about! Maybe you're new; I go back to '79 with Tom Baker! Most companions left for more reasons than wanting the adventure! Shhesshhh!
***Rose didn't run b/c she was bored. She ran b/c her life wasn't going anywhere and had a dead end job. She then lost this job and had nothing. She was still living w/ her mum and had a useless BF. She went w/ The Doctor b/c she wanted to do something w/ her life. I don't know where you got "most companions were running away from something." Sure a fair amount were, but most of them? hah! I think you'll find a lot of them simply went just "to see the stars." Before you act arrogant and patronize people, have a little think. It doesn't matter how long you've been watching the show. That means squat.***
You're such an idiot; just agreed while at the same time insulting me! I know what I'm talking about! Get over yourself neophite! Since your comment was so ridiculous, you made the cut for my note-taking blog! Congrats!
***They should do away with the concept of a showrunner on New Who - I think the biggest problem is that it has one man calling all the shots either RTD or Moffat. I think 'Who' works better when there are at least 2 people who have equal say like Philip Hinchcliff and Bob Holmes or Barry Letts and Terrence Dicks. Everything didn't go the way either Barry Letts or Philip Hinchcliff wanted. Terrence Dicks and Bob Holmes had just as much say as they did. Added to that the actor playing the Doctor had plenty of say too. It was a group effort which IMO is what a Tv show should always be; it's not like a novel that follows one man's vision. In new 'Who' even though they do still have a script editor and and a producer, the "showrunner" still gets sole control over the show IMO. I don't think anyone is ever allowed to disagree with him. Look at this extract from the writers tale RTD's own book and you will see what I mean.
ReplyDelete“I do worry about being surrounded by yes-men. You’re right, it happens. ...I don’t think it’s happened to me yet. In the end, just as good writers are hard to find, so are good script editors, good producers and good execs. When you find good people like Julie and Phil, their sheer talent cancels out the risk of them yes-ing. I suppose the danger is not RTD And The Yes-Men, but a triumverate of people who are so similar that contrary opinions don’t get a look-in.”
I think we can take it from that that RTD was surrounded by nothing but yes men. Not only do I think that none of RTD's writers or producers dared to say anything to him, but I don't think his actors did either and that's the biggest problem w/ the 9th and 10th Doctors.
Chris Eccelston and David Tennant were obviously great actors in the role, but I don't think they were allowed to play it the way they wanted to. Eccelston and Tennant didn't pick their costumes, Tennant wasn't even allowed to use his own accent which he really wanted to; had to put on a silly mockney voice. Whilst his accent was in all fairness fine, it would have been better if he had used his natural Socttish. I know that Eccelston wasn't happy w/ how 'Who' was run, but that might not have been b/c of RTD.
IMO the actor should have a huge option over the character of the Doctor. Obviously the writer still writes the stories, and no actor should have complete control like Tom Baker did towards the end of his run. But still the actor I think should shape the Doctors core personality and the writer should follow his lead and hold him in check. The first 4 Doctors are in many ways are just exaggerated versions of the actors playing the role. Hartnell was pretty much the same as the 1st Doctor in real life. He was grumpy, arrogant, didn't suffer fools, but not in a malicious way; more just in an old fashioned, curmodegeony way. ...The 2nd Doctor also had a lot of elements of Troughtons personality too, like his cheeky sense of humor. The 3rd Doctor was just Jon Pertwee. The script editor even told him just to play "Jon" and like Pertwee the 3rd Doctor is a daredevil, loves cars, is quite condescending, but again not in a nasty way. The 4th Doctor meanwhile we all know was just Tom Baker. Hell if anything he was a toned down Tom Baker. -cont.***
***...However w/ the 9th and the 10th Doctors they are not Tennant and Eccelston; they are RTD. People even said that the 9th Doctor was just RTD in how he dressed and even how he said always said fantastic. That's not how it should go; the Doctor should be the actor playing him. I think this was also a problem w/ the 3 80's Doctors too. They are far too overwritten and the actors often had to do stupid things they didn't like like strangling Peri and none of them got to pick their costumes; all hated costumes. JNT IMO was as bad a showrunner in that he just did things his way, it wasn't team effort when he took over. He didn't listen to Eric Sawards advice on anything like hiring old writers apart from a few ocassions, he didn't listen to his actors playing the Doctor or the companions and as a result it screwed the show badly. The only time he did listen to people IMO was at the end of the McCoy era and that's why it's better as he, Cartmel, and McCoy are all contributing and a team effort again.
ReplyDeleteMoffat I don't think is as bad as RTD or JNT for doing it all himself. I think he does listen to people around him more ironically even though; RTD fans like to pretend Moffat is the arrogant one. Mofffat gave Matt Smith far greater freedom in the role. He let Smith pick out his own costume for instance; also 11 reflects Matt Smith's personality more than Moffat's. When you look at Smith in interviews, he's just like 11 in a lot of ways; has a low attention span, is always hyper, has no personal space issues and apparently always kisses everybody too, just like 11 does to Rory and Jenny LOL. ...At the same time Moffat didn't let Matt control the show like Tom did, he held him in check. However having said that I still think Moffat has too much control over the show and I don't think as evidenced by the constantly changing producers in the Moffat era that he has found a producer he really clicks w/ yet.
IMO after Moffat leaves, we should go back to a Hinchcliff/Holmes, Letts/Dicks, Lambert/Whitaker style set up, 2 people who run the show who are willing to listen to their actors, but who will hold them in check if they have too. Its not that Moffat and RTD are bad writers actually think they came up w/ a lot of good ideas, but no one would be good doing it on their own, though Moffat has been better than RTD. Tv and "Doctor Who" in particular has to be a team effort.
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Mostly good points - I agree that having 2 people w/ a good ideas who are sharing the power is far less risky than one dictator (though as Moffat shows one showrunner can make a fun series, provided you find the right person for the job). But I must nitpick one bit - Troughton was not playing the Doctor as Troughton. He doesn't even look much like his Doctor in interviews, let alone behave like that way. In an interview his son said that maybe 10% of the 2nd Doctor was Pat. More so than anyone else he was acting the Doctor, only unlike Tennant he was really good at it (though my heart thawed a little toward Tennant himself when I read that he'd wanted to play the Doctor Scottish-like... since I first saw him in an interview, I have wondered why he didn't use his natural accent for the part?)***
Thanks for all this good debate and opinion on the history of "DW!" It makes interesting reading on my blogs! You guys made the cut! Thanks again!
***...I just reached the point where K-9 got a new voice. The new voice of K-9 was David Brierley, who was only there for 4 stories starting w/ 'The Creature From The Pit' until the unfinished 'Shada.' John Leeson would return the following season in 'The Leisure Hive.' Apparently John Leeson was tired of doing it, but was convinced to return by JNT knowing that the character would be written out for good later in 'Warriors' Gate.' Brierley tried, but it just didn't work. Would have been interesting if Leeson had been hired to re-voice K-9 for the DVD releases of those stories, like the Daleks had been in 'Day Of The Daleks,' but wasn't likely considered worth the expense.***
ReplyDelete...and I think he did some work for my other fave sci-fi program, "Blake's 7"
***...Who wants it to be Davros?...***
Davros without a doubt is the most insane; even more so than The Master! The Doctor gave him a hypothetical in "Genesis...;" what if he created a virus that would annihilate everything? Davros was intrigued and loved the thought of breaking the vial and having his virus "reigning supreme!" No one deserved to be unplugged more than him; sheeshhh!
***Mary Tamm or Lalla Ward? - In addition to being possibly the most beautiful companion they ever had on the show, Mary did all the difficult character development work and then got shoved aside just b/c Tom got the hots for a guest star. Mary deserved better.***
I didn't think Mary was shoved aside as much as she left due to her character being made more into an assistant to the Doctor! She started out more accomplished than he was, but was made to seem like a subordinate in the end! I thought that's what I heard and read years ago! Ward and Baker getting together later had little to do with it I thought! That only lasted 2 years and it was all on her, not Baker! He was a lot older and very demanding so it would never work!
***Partly agree. Tamm's Romana was certainly more academically accomplished, as "The Ribos Operation" makes clear. But she was apprenticed to the Doctor to pick up real-world (real-galaxy? real-universe?) experience, as "Ribos" also makes clear: When she learns that Unstoffe is a thief, she exclaims, "But--he has such an honest face!" To which the Doctor replies, "Well, he wouldn't be much of a thief if he had a dishonest face!"
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Mary Tamm pioneered the role and gave it the glamour as her Romana served her apprenticeship w/ the Doctor. I don't agree that "there wasn't very far left for Romana's character to go." Lalla Ward completed the job Tamm started in her 2 seasons as Romana Mk. II, and when she left in "Warriors' Gate" she was truly a full-fledged Time Lord, seasoned and savvy, while I don't feel that Tamm's Romana had got to that state at the end of "The Armageddon Factor."
While Tamm may have got better stories, that is still a smaller sample size than Ward's, and Tamm did have the Season 16 story arc of the "Key To Time" as a thematic thread to buttress the storytelling. Some of Ward's Season 17 stories are pretty dire, but in some of those she is the best thing happening on the screen (e.g., "The Horns of Nimon"). And as for the "know-it-all" aspect of Ward's Romana, I don't know if that is personal preference/bias on your part, but Tamm's Romana began as a haughty whippersnapper w/ lots of book smarts, but little of the street savvy that the Doctor had, so for me I see Ward's Romana's know-it-all aspect as a continuation of same from Tamm's portrayal.***
***Agreed about Mary Tamm over Lalla Ward. In addition to being possibly the most beautiful companion they ever had on the show, Mary did all the difficult character development work and then got shoved aside just because Tom got the hots for a guest star. Mary deserved better.***
ReplyDeleteI didn't think Mary was shoved aside as much as she left due to her character being made more into an assistant to the Doctor! She started out more accomplished than he was, but was made to seem like a subordinate in the end!...
***Another reason Mary left was that she was preggo at the time of rehearsals for Season 17. Met her once. A lovely, lovely woman.
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"The Brain of Morbius;" why not just put his brain in the Doctor's head! - After having spent all that time making a body out of random body parts, Solon didn't want all his hard work to go to waste.***
That would have been the back up plan, but the spare part body was used b/c of Morbius' impatience to move about IIRC! Been years since I've seen that episode! It was also in the Doctor's mind that The Time Lords had diverted his TARDIS to deal with the situation like with Davros in "Genesis" and "Destiny Of The Daleks!"
***I'm pretty sure The Doctor was only on Trenzalore for 300 years, not 1000? I know that when he had 'time off' from the Ponds, he would gallop around the universe himself for a while - Particularly when he was trying to avoid going to his death, he said he'd been traveling for about 100 years, so it all adds up.
And I personally don't get as wound up about his age as some people do - It's like others have said, every Doctor has given a different #, and he himself has admitted that he's not even sure how old he really is, so why should it matter to us when it doesn't matter to him?
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It was indeed 900 years on Trenzalore. 300 was the time that he spent there after he sent Clara away the 1st time, but then he spent another 600 years after that. The # was confirmed by the tie-in novel "Tales of Trenzalore," and has now been compounded by Twelve referring to himself as "over 2000 years old." When he was avoiding his death at Lake Silencio, he allegedly did so for about 200 years, and then there was another ~100 spent in btw Lake Silencio and "A Town Called Mercy."
For the sake of discussion/reference, here is the Doctor's life in the revival series:
800 years old - War, The Day of the Doctor (implied; War deduced that Eleven was 400 years older than him based on Eleven's estimated age being 1200. It should also be noted that this was War at the end of his life, after fighting in a centuries-long Time War.)
900 years old - Nine, Aliens of London
900 years of "phone box travel" - Nine, The Empty Child
903 years old - Ten, Voyage of the Damned
904 years old - Ten, The Day of the Doctor
906 years old - Ten, The End of Time
907 years old - Eleven, Flesh and Stone
908 years old - Eleven, in between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut (Amy says that he was 908 when last she and Rory saw him.)
909 years old - Eleven, The Impossible Astronaut
1103 years old - Eleven, The Wedding of River Song
1200 years old - Eleven, A Town Called Mercy
1500 years old - Eleven, The Time of the Doctor (after Clara returns for the 1st time)
2100 years old - Eleven, The Time of the Doctor (after Clara returns for the 2nd time)
Interestingly, the TARDIS herself, in the body of Idris, said "700 years, finally he asks [if she has a name]" in "The Doctor's Wife." Ignoring the War Doctor, this would mean that the then-909-year-old Doctor was around 200 years old when he 1st stole the TARDIS.
The Tenth Doctor also claimed that he visited the Medusa Cascade when he was "just a kid, 90 years old."***
***...Have to say, immensely entertaining even with the ridiculousness of some of the special effects (the pathetic rat in "Talons of Weng-Chiang" being the foremost sin, the only thing spoiling a terrific story). We've reached "City of Death" which I remember as a kid, scared witless when Scargoth revealed his true face (The Doctor seems remarkably glib about wiping his race out, much more so than he is in "Genesis of the Daleks?)."...***
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned some of the best episodes of that era! Loved all of those; esp. "T.O.W.C., G.O.T.D., & C.O.D.!" So many movies have dealt with that storyline of duplicate Mona Lisa's since it was stolen and recovered!
***Loved "Day Of The Daleks" and enjoying the "Sea Devils" so far. Starting to really like Pertwee now too...there is an awful lot of the Master though. - Yea they overdid The Master-although Delgado was bloody excellent. Shame he died; there was to be a final battle.***
Even though Delgado was great in the part of the Master, it got tedious seeing him behind every plot on Earth for that season! Too bizarre!
***I'm looking for some recommendations to help get me started:
Hartnell: The Daleks, The Aztecs, The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Romans, The Time Meddler
Troughton: The Tomb Of The Cybermen, The Ice Warriors, The Web Of Fear, The Invasion, The Seeds of Death, The War Games
Pertwee: Spearhead From Space, Doctor Who & The Silurians, The Ambassadors Of Death, Inferno, Terror of the Autons, The Daemons, Day Of The Daleks, The Sea Devils, The Green Death, The Time Warrior, Invasion of the Dinosuars
Baker: Genesis of the Daleks, Pyramids Of Mars, The Brain of Morbius, The Hand of Fear, The Deadly Assasssin, The Face Of Evil, The Talons Of Weng-Chiang, Horror Of Fang Rock, Image Of The Fendahl, The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Androids Of Tara, City Of Death, The Keeper Of Traken, Logopolis
Davison: Castrovalva, Kinda, Earthshock, Snakedance, Mawdryn Undead, Terminus, Enlightenment, The Five Doctors, Resurrection Of The Daleks, Planet of Fire, The Caves of Androzani
Baker: Whispers Of Terror, The Holy Terror, The Marian Conspiracy, Doctor Who & The Pirates, Jubilee, The One Doctor
McCoy: Dragonfire, Remembrance Of The Daleks, Battlefield, The Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, Survival
McGann: Storm Warning, The Chimes of Midnight***
***Top 10 people responsible for the greatness of Classic Who:
ReplyDeleteVerity Lambert
David Whitaker
William Hartnell
Patrick Troughton
Barry Letts
Terrance Dicks
Jon Pertwee
Tom Baker
Philip Hinchcliffe
Robert Holmes - - - No Terry Nation? Dr Who might never have survived w/o the Daleks.
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Smith's cameo was really appreciated by me. Unlike Tennant and Russell, who had 'Ten' say thing like "I'll die and some new guy goes sauntering away" and "I don't wanna go", making many fans hate Moffat and Smith before they'd even started, Smith and Moffat had the Eleventh Doctor openly welcome 'Twelve.' To me, the scene wasn't just speaking to Clara, but to the audience. "It's alright. Help him become him. He's still me. He's the Doctor". That along with Capaldi saying that he remembers saying that made me realise that they are the same person, not that 'Eleven' had died and 'Twelve' is "sauntering away." I think it was needed for this darker Doctor and is possibly my favourite thing about the episode.
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Exactly! I know a lot of people were very weepy about Tennant's departure not j/b he was beloved by the fans, but b/c he actually said 'I don't want to go.' I actually grew to dislike Tennant's Doctor (even more) b/c of that line, b/c I didn't see the logic at all behind it (besides perhaps making the audience hate whoever succeeds him) - I mean, really, he knew he was coming back, for Christ's sake!***
Was this just a retread of "Girl In The Fireplace!" Sister ship of "MDP?"
***Explain....I do not understand your question; what do you mean "Retread" on GiTP? I have seen both 'Deep Breath' and 'GiTF'***
...and you call yourself a "DW" fan? I think not! Didn't you hear Capaldi mention records stating that the ship (Marie Antoinette) this robot was rebuilding was a sister ship to Madame De Pompadour? They both used human parts to repair it! Maybe I'm just nuts!
***Yes I heard it; I was thinking that it was similar to them right after the "leader" robot killed the man for his eyes. And there was other ships in the cabinet. 'DB' clockwork robots are more like Patchwork clockwork then the original clockwork. Instead of a retread, it's more like a Nod or so far from original selves/program that If they happen to find MDP starship would most likely be EXTERMINATED, DELETED, or cannibalized similer to "VotD Daleks."***
Capaldi's "silly" act is getting very tiresome! He just took the role and I'm already sick of him! I don't feel good about that!
***I hated Smith and like Capaldi . I loved Jon Pertwee and hated Sylvester McCoy . People should realise that's the nature of the programme - you find yourself loving one actor in the role and hating another . That's why the show has been running on and off since 1963.***
I've been fortunate that it has happened only on rare occasions, animus being evident w/ a new Doctor! Colin B. unfortunately was just saddled w/ bad material, McCoy w/ tacky scenery and sets, and Tennant trying to be a little too human IMO! He had his bad side, but overcompensated w/ the Rose arc! Matt was even worse w/ Clara; "my Clara!" OCO!...And so it continues!
***I feel like I'll grow to like Capaldi more. As it is now he's not doing a bad job, but I feel like he's still trying to figure out what Doctor he wants to play/growing into the role.***
***...I have seen people complain that Moffat focuses too much on the companions, but I have also seen people complain that he doesn't focus on the companions enough... when really, I think he strikes a good balance between the two...***
ReplyDeleteWell Clara is running the show; in sync w/ the TARDIS and moving it about w/ her mind! lol! She's taken over! He's scatter-brained while she's the rational person!
***I liked the Cyberman/Dalek clash, but agree w/ Mindbait on the mingling of monsters and their overuse. One of the reasons "Star Trek: Voyager" turned to shit was they seemed to run into and easily beat The Borg every week.***
They went from an unknown enemy where you only saw their shadow to the Daleks being behind every other storyline/plot recently! lol! "Asylum" and "Victory" stunk! "Genesis" endures after all these decades! Such a cast of characters including Nyder who was a terrible liar and coward! The Doctor barely gave him a dirty look and he opened Davros' safe to get that "travel ring!" Not a fan of McCoy, but "Remembrance" was good! Need to pull out "Revelations" and "Resurrection" to remind me of their plots! Classic Who use was always more judicious and had more impact!
***"The Five Doctors" episode; the thing w/ "The Three Doctors" is that it's got a weak ending. ...and i think that if William Hartnell wasn't so ill during that time he would have had more to do than he did. and it would have helped the serial of course. As for "The Five Doctors," I love it. - I think a rush can often bring out the best in writers/production teams/actors.***
The "3 & 5" Doctors were the best until they figured out a way to get "13" in there! lol! Besides a rushed script, Hartnell was on his last legs and producers came up w/ using him on screen w/o having to run about!
***Yes, Pertwee's first 2 seasons were almost entirely Earthbound except for "Colony in Space," in which the Time Lords granted him special dispensation to help them. That 2nd season did see the Master integral to every story. (Yes, nit-pickers, Three does leave Earth in "The Ambassadors of Death," but it is not in the TARDIS. And technically there is an alternate Earth in "Inferno," in which at least the TARDIS console is involved.) After that season, there were more reasons, excuses, etc., proffered to enable the Doctor to leave Earth, and by the end of "The Three Doctors" he is granted his full walking papers.
The 4th Doctor did not have such restrictions (although the Brig might have wished it so), but it wasn't until I just thought about his "The Seeds of Doom" that it reminded me of a Pertwee kind of story.***
Nice synopsis of Pertwee's early years! The console moving him some place reminded me of "The Doctor's Wife!" The console room is always centrally located, but to be exposed like that is so HG Wells, "The Time Machine!"
***No, 'Dalek' is not the best Dalek story, really the top rundown should have contained "Genesis, Power, Remembrance, The Daleks" (being the original and all) and maybe "Master Plan." From the new show I would have gone w/ "Asylum Of The Daleks."
ReplyDeleteAs for 'Dalek,' it has some cool action scenes, but this whole "you'd make a good Dalek" and oh, "is the Doctor as bad as the enemies he fights" thing is just so worn out IMO. ...the Dalek telling the Doctor that he'd make a good Dalek and him getting all angsty and filled w/ inner turmoil. I mean 'Genesis' kind of covers that succinctly w/o labouring over it.
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I havent seen "Dr Who And The Daleks" (and I'm sure there is another film), but want to know why Peter Cushing isn't counted as one of the Doctors? Surely if Paul McGann is (he only had one film) then Cushing s/b too.***
You're kidding right? lol! It wasn't the same "Doctor Who" from the series! In the 2 movies produced, he was totally human, that really was his granddaughter, and he had no idea what Daleks were before his first encounter in the movie! Of course he defeated them w/ their own logic and apprehension of the magnetic poles on Earth! The movies were the my 1st exposure to the Tardis and Doctor Who! I didn't start watching the series until my college room mate talked about it in '77! Tom Baker was my first real Doctor with Leila!
***What makes you think Susan wasn't his granddaughter on the show?***
What can I say? It's just been understood it was an honorary acknowledgement of kinship! When he left Gallifrey in his "borrowed" TARDIS, he was alone! She wasn't a Time Lord, so I doubt they just ran into one another by chance on some odd planet! I just took her as someone he adopted from Earth like Amy or Donna; a girl inquisitive who gave him some purpose!
***No he wasn't. Watch the beginning of "The Name of the Doctor" and you'll see him guide Susan in. = ...It's funny that you say that considering that the creators of the show back in the '60s envisioned the companions as the main characters, w/ the Doctor being an eccentric older man on the side.
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Meh, like I've said before, as far as I know, Susan being the Doctor's granddaughter was never really debated during the run of the old show. it's only w/ the new show having various twists and turns and shocks and whatnot that people now go "oh well, maybe she WASN'T his granddaughter."***
I started w/ Baker and it was no doubt that by the time he acquired the role, The Doctor was the savior of the whole thing! Creatures, Aliens, and or Planets would trust his judgment, overruling centuries of belief! His companions couldn't puff up his ego enough, actually seeing him act out, have a tantrum, or just plain sulk! Baker and Davison were good for that back in Classic Who!
***The progression of The Doctor's age in the modern series has been as such:
ReplyDelete1st Doctor: ~209 years old* (The Name of the Doctor; established that he was this old at that time in The Doctor's Wife)
War Doctor: 800 years old (The Day of the Doctor)
9th Doctor: 900 years old** (Aliens of London)
10th Doctor: 903 years old (Voyage of the Damned)
10th Doctor: 904 years old (The Day of the Doctor)
10th Doctor: 906 years old (The End of Time)
11th Doctor: 907 years old (Flesh and Stone)
11th Doctor: 908 years old (after "A Christmas Carol;" mentioned in "The Impossible Astronaut" by Amy)
11th Doctor: 909 years old (The Impossible Astronaut)
11th Doctor: 1103 years old (Closing Time; established that he would be this age by then in The Impossible Astronaut)
11nth Doctor: 1200 years old (A Town Called Mercy)
11th Doctor: 1500 years old (after Clara's 1st return to Trenzalore in The Time of the Doctor)
12th Doctor: 2000 years old (after Clara's 2nd return to Trenzalore in The Time of the Doctor, plus Deep Breath)
* The TARDIS, in the body of Idris, said that she and the Doctor ran away together 700 years ago
** Although the 9th Doctor also claimed to experienced "900 years of phone box travel" in "The Empty Child," which would be impossible if he were also 900 years old.
Although when asked about his age in "The Day of the Doctor," the 11th Doctor also says, "Twelve hundred and something, I think, unless I'm lying. I can't remember if I'm lying about my age, that's how old I am."
Which is probably the best answer, considering that as the 7th Doctor, he was indisputably proven to be 953 in "Time and the Rani," although the ~200 figure for the 1st Doctor at the time of him stealing the TARDIS is more or less consistent w/ the classic series. However, the TARDIS's statement in The "Doctor's Wife" would then suggest that the 8th, War, 9th, and 10th Doctors' lives, as well as the first 2 years of the 11th Doctor's life, only encompassed a period of about 50 years, so chalk that up to either a retcon or Idris being batty again, esp. since it was also indisputably proven that about 400 years passed in btw the "800"-year-old War Doctor in his dying days and the "1200"-year-old 11th Doctor.
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..."I'm Clara Jem Jogg Wollomeer-Day Slitheen, and I was born to save the Doctor!"***
I like it! These story arcs Moffet's been creating, which are explained after YEARS of baking in the oven are amazing! Being a classic Whovian, nothing but the Doctor's multiple encounters w/ Cybermen, Daleks, and Davros in particular comes close! The show was more "stand-alone" back then! You could jumble the order and it would still work! You can't do that w/ the new series! You have to really pay attention; producers really carry over very minute events and bring them "forward" a lot! The companions of the past didn't take over like Rose, Amy, River, & Clara! They try to make it more special w/ Sarah Jane coming back a couple times, but it was happenstance more than prophetic or destiny-ridden!
***If Torchwood never gets revived, what are anyone's potential thoughts of Gwen moving over into the mainstream Whoniverse? I mean, I've only watched through to season 3, but the entire, original Torchwood team dies except for her and Jack, right?***
I just never jumped on "Torchwood!" There were some interesting stories, but something kept me from adding it to the "must see" list of fandom! It even had that added incentive w/ Jack being "bi" and having a past lover terrorize his team! I ordered John's book, but I still haven't read it! It couldn't hurt to incorporate Torchwood if they like; wouldn't offend me, but Gwen is married! They might have to kill him off to cut that tie!
***A summarization of Moffat's arcs:
ReplyDeleteSince people have been complaining that Moffat's arcs are way too confusing and convoluted, I have decided to thoroughly explain what they are all about. So here it is. An explanation of all his arcs and plot holes. Basically, Moffat's arcs are all about a mix of comprehensive ontological paradoxes (or time loops) which exist in a symbiosis.
The series 5 arc:
Anyway, most people seem to think that the cracks in time came before the explosion of the TARDIS. Well that's wrong. It's actually the other way around. In "City of Death," Count Scarlioni's time experiments were very unorthodox and dangerous. They ended up scaring time around Paris, resulting in so called "cracks in time." The cracks in that episode were basically the consequence of his experiments. They were a scar of the terrible things Scaroth/Scarlioni did on time. And coincidentally, in The 'Time of the Doctor,' he actually calls the cracks "the scar tissue of the universe."
Basically, the Doctor did a surgery on time and space. While he did save the universe, he left a surgical wound on the universe - the cracks in time. The cracks didn't close b/c the Doctor rebooted the universe. They closed b/c he walked through them. This was actually established in "The Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone."
So, what really happened in "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang?" A time loop; really? The original timeline got altered and changed into the other timeline. However, some traces and elements of it were still present, and those led into the universe being rewritten back into its original timeline. But some traces of the 2nd timeline were present, and those led in the universe being altered.
1. The cracks in time appear
2. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica
3. The Silence blows up the TARDIS
4. The universe starts to disappear and gets rewritten
5. The Doctor uses the Pandorica to reboot the universe
6. The cracks in time appear
7. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica etc.
And it goes on and on for eternity. It's a loop.
There being a time loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5, the Doctor's appearance in the Angels 2-parter etc.
Of course, people will now ask about Amy's parents. Well, Amy's parents didn't retroactively come to be in her life. They simply came back to existence during her wedding day. The truth is, when people got erased, it wasn't like they never came to be. They only got erased from existence. They did exist, no-one remembered them. That is like never existing - just not literally. Same for Rory.
The series 6 arc
In Moffat's era, a fixed point in time is a part of a time loop. Think about it - if I were to kill a man who just traveled to the past to give his younger self the schematics to his time machine wouldn't end up creating a paradox? If he didn't give himself the schematics, then how did he get in the past? A part if a time loop is a circular paradox.
To create a fixed point in time, the Silence imposed a lot of time loops around their plot. The first is how they thought everything out. They learned of everything through a legend, a legend about the Doctor's death which surfaced b/c of them doing it in the first place. A time loop. The creation of the suit is one too. The Silent's influenced all of history to make them craft the space-suit the way they wanted it, but they also created human history - their history. After all, the Silence is run by people.
River Song, as Melody, hooked up her own parents, thus assuring her own existence. River also saw her elder self watching over her, thus making her "killing" the Doctor a fixed point in time.
Basically, every step of the Silent's plot is a part of a time loop, and in so, a fixed point in time. They wanted to make the Doctor's death inescapable - they failed though.***
(cont.,)
The Summarization Of Moffet's arc:
ReplyDeleteSince people have been complaining that Moffat's arcs are way too confusing and convoluted, I have decided to thoroughly explain what they are all about. So here it is. An explanation of all his arcs and plot holes. Basically, Moffat's arcs are all about a mix of comprehensive ontological paradoxes (or time loops) which exist in a symbiosis.
The series 5 arc:
This is actually Moffat's most complicated arc actually. Most people have misinterpreted it. They seem to think that the cracks in time came before the explosion of the TARDIS. Well that's wrong. It's actually the other way around. In "City of Death," Count Scarlioni's time experiments were very unorthodox and dangerous. They ended up scaring time around Paris, resulting in so called "cracks in time." The cracks in that episode were basically the consequence of his experiments. They were a scar of the terrible things Scaroth/Scarlioni did on time. And coincidentally, in The "Time of the Doctor," he actually calls the cracks "the scar tissue of the universe."
Basically, the Doctor did a surgery on time and space. While he did save the universe, he left a surgical wound on the universe - the cracks in time. The cracks didn't close b/c the Doctor rebooted the universe/ They closed b/c he walked through them. This was actually established in "The Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone."
So, what really happened in "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang?" A time loop; really? The original timeline got altered and changed into the other timeline. However, some traces and elements of it were still present, and those led into the universe being rewritten back into its original timeline. But some traces of the 2nd timeline were present, and those led in the universe being altered.
1. The cracks in time appear
2. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica
3. The Silence blows up the TARDIS
4. The universe starts to disappear and gets rewritten
5. The Doctor uses the Pandorica to reboot the universe
6. The cracks in time appear
7. The Alliance traps the Doctor in the Pandorica etc.
And it goes on and on for eternity. It's a loop.
There's many evidence to this. There being a time loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5. The Doctor's appearance in the 'Angels' 2-parter etc.
Of course, people will now ask about Amy's parents. Well, Amy's parents didn't retroactively come to be in her life. They simply came back to existence during her wedding day. The truth is, when people got erased, it wasn't like they never came to be. They only got erased from existence. They did exist; no-one remembered them. That is like never existing - just not literally. Same for Rory.
The series 6 arc
In Moffat's era, a fixed point in time is a part of a time loop. Think about it - if I were to kill a man who just traveled to the past to give his younger self the schematics to his time machine, wouldn't end up creating a paradox? If he didn't give himself the schematics, then how did he get in the past? A part if a time loop is a circular paradox.
To create a fixed point in time, the Silence imposed a lot of time loops around their plot. The1st is how they thought everything out. They learned of everything through a legend, a legend about the Doctor's death which surfaced b/c of them doing it in the first place. A time loop. The creation of the suit is one too. The Silent's influenced all of history to make them craft the space-suit the way they wanted it, but they also created human history - their history. After all, the Silence is run by people.
River Song, as Melody, hooked up her own parents, thus assuring her own existence. River also saw her elder self watching over her, thus making her "killing" the Doctor a fixed point in time.*** (cont.,)
(cont.) - ***Basically, every step of the Silence's plot is a part of a time loop, and in so, a fixed point in time. They wanted to make the Doctor's death inescapable - they failed though.
ReplyDeleteThe series 7 arc:
It is quite simple really - the Doctor picked up Clara as his companion to discover why she was in several places in time and space all at once. B/c she started traveling w/ him, she threw herself in his timeline, thus ending up in those several places at once, prompting him to pick her up. A perfect time loop.
"The Day of the Doctor" time loop:
The time loop in "TDOTD" is quite simple as well. The Doctor saved Gallifrey and set-up the situation as if it was destroyed. The Doctor thought he had destroyed Gallifrey. He went through his brooding stage and eventually got over it. However, it was in this brooding stage that he found an answer of how to save Gallifrey, employing it in "The Day of the Doctor," making yet another time loop.
The loop btw "The Day of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor"
The salvation of Gallifrey led to the War on Trenzalore. The War on Trenzalore, of course, ended with the Doctor regenerating into his 13th incarnation. Since the Twelfth Doctor helped save Gallifrey, he assured his own existence, making it a time loop.
This and the previous arc prove that the Doctor always saved Gallifrey and that time wasn't changed.
The loop btw "The Time of the Doctor" and series 5:
The Silence ended up creating the arcs it wanted to erase from existence. Ironic, isn't it? And no we come onto - PLOT HOLES! DUN-DUN-DUN!
Plot holes:
Actually, it should be singular here, b/c there is one plot hole in Moffat's era. A big one indeed.
It's about "The Name of the Doctor" and "The Time of the Doctor." Everything in Moffat's era always happened, so how do the two mesh together? After all, the "time got rewritten" excuse doesn't work. What's worse, since the 50th and the Christmas special are in a time loop, then there can only be ONE end to the War on Trenzalore. Not to mention that Clara was there b/c of the events of "The Name of the Doctor," and her role was quite important - in other words, "The Time of the Doctor" happened b/c of "TNOTD."
It's like saying that 2 + 2 = 4 b/c 2 + 2 = 5 and vice versa! It makes no sense.
However, Moffat's arcs are still on-going, so maybe we will get an explanation in the future. And I think we will. After all, Missy has gone to great lengths (or whoever it is behind it) to keep Clara and the Doctor together by giving her his phone #, so it could be that she created a parallel reality where this happened and sustained it, led the GI to it so that she could get the 2 together. Not to mention that River was too eager herself to get them there, so it makes sense that there is more to it. We'll see!
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Thanks for the explanation. It was well written and probably took some time to write. :)
The main issue I have w/ all of this, is that almost all of Moffat's arcs revolve around time loops and creation of a paradox. Going back to "Father's Day" in series 1, this kind of paradox cased the entire planet/universe/time itself to be "eaten" - can't remember the explanation. I fail to see how that event is different then the stories in Moffat's era.
I can appreciate that Moffat tried to make a complex story that will be told throughout his era, but it seems like inventing the canon and continuity based on a whim of the story teller. This can be fine as long as you try to give an explanation that makes sense, but most of the time, the majority of explanations are given on message boards like this. When only a few people understand the plot twist, there is a problem w/ the plot as a whole.***
***There are a lot of really good 2nd Doctor stories w/ Jamie:
ReplyDelete* The Moonbase (so you can meet Polly and Ben)
* Tomb of the Cybermen
* Enemy of the World (recently recovered)
* Web of Fear (recently recovered)
* The Mind Robber
* The Invasion
* War Games ***
"Tomb" was the "flashback" episode for Troughton last year during the 50th anniversary! Collected it on VHS tape like always!
***Why not try out 'Enemy of the World' and 'Web of Fear?' They had been lost since the 1960's. Watch them for their historical significance if nothing else. "Enemy of the World: has Troughton in a double role and you can truly see what a great character actor he was.***
I'm as nostalgic as anyone, still pushing Classic Who for the most part, but I never suggest to or take recommendation for anything before Pertwee! The older I get the more I cringe w/ the bad plots, tacky set, and most of all the "overacting!" I love seeing Hartnell, Hurndall, Troughton, and Pertwee in the multi-Doctor anniversary episodes and that tends to suffice when it comes to going truly 'back in time!'
***...The acting really did not change all that much from the 1960's to the 1970's. In fact it didn't change at all. The only signifigant change from the 1960's to the 1970's is we are now in color & the Doctor is Earth bound. I'm sorry you are so anti-B/W era, but you are missing out on some great stories. Personally I think 1980's Who looks a lot more tacky and cheap than anything in the 1960's. It's your prerogative not to try it, but you have a very misinformed opinion about 1960's Who. Although I'm someone who is fascinated by film history and even love Silent films, so perhaps I am biased.***
Destroyed! I had a real problem w/ Pertwee and McCoy; The Doctor stranded on Earth w/ the Master behind plot after plot, then the bad scenery and bad acting in the 80's later!
***I just think you should give Troughton & Hartnell a chance. I admit my perspective is different than yours b/c as I pointed out, I like films much older than the 1960's, but I don't see any more tackiness than the other eras and I don't see "bad acting." In fact I would argue Troughton might have been the best actor to play the role. But don't have a closed mind give them a try. I truly do think there are some truly memorable stories for both the 1st and 2nd Doctor.
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Is Shada A Story?***
Until it's telecast on int'l tv, I'm afraid not! If done in animation, books, radio telecasts, or online production, it just won't do it for me! lol!
***See, I get that with things like novels, CD-only releases, and other things where you are forced to buy external media (BBC charter and all that), and to a degree I even get drawing the line at radio, since it's quite a different storytelling medium, ...all fans have free access to it? And webcasts certainly fit that just fine.
That said, I do understand your point of view- and I know those animated webcasts are an esp. odd case, b/c out of the 4 they did, 'Shada' seems to be intended as an official, canonical continuation of the series, while 'Real Time' is ambiguous as far as canon is concerned. 'Death Comes to Time' is explicitly not canon (or it's an alternate timeline), and 'Scream of the Shalka' was absolutely intended as a canonical continuation, but it was then retconned to be not so.***
***At the beginning, The Reboot was a bit rough as this was the first real exposure I'd had to English accents. There are some colloquialisms that I still don't understand fully, but I can get the gist of it and I try and educate myself as to any slang I don't really understand.***
ReplyDeleteI guess I had a leg up on most Americans since I loved British comedies going back to the late 70's; "Monty Python, Dave Allen, The Two Ronnies, Agony, Are you being served?, Keeping Up Appearances," and others! Being a bit of a snob, I also did a bit of "Upstairs Downstairs," "I Claudius," and "Brideshead Revisited!" I wrote a term paper on Dickens since I'd read so many of his novels as a child! It's like a foreign language, but I've managed over the years! Wouldn't mind living there one of these days!
***New companion is inevitable - Not really a spoiler since The Doctor changes companions more than he changes face. I really like Clara w/ this Doctor. They have great chemistry, but eventually someone else will take on.***
This was the same exit Sarah Jane had w/ TOM Baker! She was upset, PO'd about something, and she packed and left in a huff! It was the episode just before "Assassin" IIRC! "I can't take Sarah Jane to Gallifrey!"
***Sarah decided to leave at the end of "The Hand of Fear," but changed her mind when the Doctor announced he was dumping her.***
I just thought it was similar; relax! lol! Of course Clara will change her mind and probably "give him a call if he doesn't come back soon!"
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***"Kill The Moon" - Mexicans on the Moon?***
I'll take that comment over this little girl! She was disappointed when the Doctor didn't say she was special, but what does she do? All the things that makes a brat "a brat:"
- "Doctor, I'm bored!"
- (Throwing up)
- Ready to go home when things got a little tough!
What a hateful little girl! She is far from special! Please dump her ASAP! I don't even want to know her name!
***You make our sound as if she stubbed her toe or something, instead of ALMOST BEING EATEN BY A GIANT ALIEN SPIDER. Seriously, do you have any sense of empathy at all?***
OMG, take a "chill pill" people! lol! It's a freakin' tv show w. a character I could do w/o! Get a grip! lol!
***Would you have turned your lights off? - ...Every day I see or hear about death and destruction, all of which I can do nothing about, and if there was a chance that maybe I could stop it, just one time, I think I would have left my lights on.***
The way I see it, we have no right to make such a decision! It's only a matter of time before the planet goes anyway; pollution, dumping of radioactive materials in the sea, refusing to get off carbon fuels! It may be too late to save us anyway; that's the way I see it! Let that egg hatch; regardless!
***I loved "Robots of Death." I loved the scenery and costuming. I found the mystery excellent. The Doctor and Leela had very strong chemistry (although I thought it was better in "Fang Rock"). Either way, when it comes to Leela episodes, it really is splitting hairs. From "The Face of Evil" til "The Invasion of Time," they were all pretty decent, w/ 'Robots/Talons/Horror' being one of the greatest runs of stories in all of Who. "Robots of Death also received higher ratings ...up to that point, and held the spot until "Destiny Of The Daleks."***
ReplyDeleteAfter all these years, "Robots Of Death" is still quite memorable and I loved it! It's one of those episodes that had it all; futuristic mining, a murder whodunit, and another mercenary group willing to turn their lives over to The Doctor! It was so "Agatha Christie!" lol! It was quite touching having a robot give of itself as a sentient being near the end! "There are 'Dums, Voc, Supervoc, ...then there's you!" It might be categorized as a Doctor companion!
***I find that Davros' understanding of evolution to be worse than that of a Kansas Preacher. So his choosing to create monsters was purely a sign of his megalomania disguised as "science." We are to assume that after The Doctor left at the end of "Genesis," the Daleks proceeded to wipe out every living Kaled in the Kaled city's bunker and then continued Davros' work to breed "pure" Daleks using the stock that Davros created.***
Another "Hitler" figure where everyone else is only following orders! Neither side looked morally superior! The Thals used that solvent given by Davros on the Kaled dome before an offer of peace was initiated!
***The show goes to the Victorian era a lot.
Victorian era:
"The Evil of the Daleks"
"The Talons of Weng-Chiang"*
"Ghost Light"
"The Unquiet Dead"
"Tooth and Claw"
"The Next Doctor"*
"The Snowmen"*
"The Crimson Horror"
"Deep Breath"*
The following feature scenes in Victorian era, but most of the action is set somewhere else.
"Timelash"
Vastra and Jenny's intro in "A Good Man Goes to War"
"The Name of the Doctor"*
These stories take place between 1837 and 1901, but by location aren't counted as Victorian era stories.
The Mary Celeste sequence in "The Chase"
"The Gunfighters"
"Vincent and the Doctor"
"A Town Called Mercy"
*Set in London. Now one from the revival:
Most of the stories under RTD were set on modern day Earth.
So a total of 17 of 46 stories or 37% of RTD's era was set then.
...they are London centric, which is another criticism of RTD's run. Only "Boom Town" is set entirely somewhere else. That said, "Utopia/The Sound of Drums/The Last of the Time Lords" has one whole episode not set on modern day Earth, bar one scene and that is set in Cardiff. Also "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" and "The End of Time" also feature many scenes set outside of London.***
Well, being as "DW" was created as a British tv show, it's not surprising that the legacy deemed most of the scenery, time, and history of Britain would be on display! They touched on most of the planet, even The States, but the past, present, and future of London will predominate; only makes sense!
***What are your thoughts on Tom Baker's performances in the horror movies "The Vault of Horror" (1973) and the "Freakmaker" aka 'The Mutations' (1974)?***
ReplyDeleteFor some reason I was just thinking of Baker outside of 'DW;' "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" in particular! He was a real bad guy in that as Koura! It took me back to my childhood in '73! Loved mythical and adventurous movies like that back then!
***...in those pre-home video days, they couldn’t just pull a print of the movie off the shelf. BUT…”The Golden Voyage of Sinbad” was in theaters right there in London, so that is what they went to see. Tom’s great performance as the villain who physically deteriorates each time he uses his powers was so good that he went to the top of the Very Short List and, as we all know now, got the gig.
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Most blatant examples of the Doctor killing - ...Two arms himself and kills some Ice Warriors in the "Seeds Of Death." Actually, every other story seems to involve the Doctor killing some alien menace in some way or other.***
Well those are just the more direct acts; what about the companions self sacrificing? How many have given of themselves to save him like that Tree Lady in "New Earth," Kylie Minogue as a waitress on the Titanic, going back to classic WHO w/ Adric in "Earthshock!" Not sure of the paradox of Gallifrey getting fried by the War Doctor!
***An analysis of the Master - I would hate to see him killed off for good, but I disliked how he would apparently die (as in Planet of Fire) and then return w/ absolutely zero explanation later on.***
The Master and Davros can't be killed off; always a way back! The Master's return through a religion was the most ridiculous of course! Talk about thinking of oneself as a GAWD; lifelong paranoia and insanity there!
***They really SHOULD be killed off; or rather, they really SHB killed off when they were killed off. The alternative is bad fiction.
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The Doctor wouldn't have forgiven Clara if she was a guy who threatened him like that with his TARDIS keys. - First off she didn't do anything, it was in her mind. Second I reckon the Doc knows there is something wrong w/ him and until he finds out what, he needs to keep her around. This would also explain why he's been quite nasty to her at times; he suspects something!***
I was thinking Clara had to be under the "mind control" of something, but when I realized that was her actual plan, just for "grins" as the Doctor I would have kicked her ass over the edge in that "dream world" volcano! What a stinking, selfish bitch! I still can't believe the treachery! Her happiness precludes all the Doctor does around the universe! She was feeling guilty that she had to make her feelings known in a stupid phone call instead of in person! Gawd, what a loon! I've never liked her; now she's cemented the deal! She will fall from the heights of saving the Doctor throughout time to some loser that shouldn't be regarded in any way!
***In "Dark Water," why just make it some new different enemy/Timelord or something, heck even the Rani instead of "The Master?" Is this the direction DW's going; Missy being The Master from now on?***
I much preferred it being The Rani even though Kate O'Mara died earlier this year! Maybe that's why they decided to skip that idea until time had passed for another occasion to resurrect her!
***How many regenerations has the Master had? - Anyway, we know that the Anthony Ainley Master and the Eric Roberts Master were stolen bodies, not legitimate incarnations. We also don't know if Roger Delgado's Master and the Pratt/Beevers Kentucky Fried Master were the same incarnation (I now prefer to think of them as separate incarnations; Delgado being Master #12 and Pratt/Beevers being Master #13).If you stick to the TV show:
ReplyDelete> Roger Delgado
> Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers (May be the same incarnation as Delgado.)
> Anthony Ainley
> Gordon Tipple (Although he only appears on-screen for a few seconds in the TV movie, and presumably as a stand-in for Ainley anyway.)
> Eric Roberts
> Derek Jacobi
> John Simms
> Michelle Gomez
However, if you factor in the Big Finish audios (which, to my knowledge, have 2 different versions of the Master - one to use for Fourth-Seventh Doctor audios, voiced by Geoffrey Beevers, and the other for the 8th Doctor's "Dark Eyes" series, voiced by Alex MacQueen). It gets a little more complicated, then it goes:
> Roger Delgado
> Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers
> Anthony Ainley
> Geoffrey Beevers (As the Ainley body was eroded.)
> Gordon Tipple (Representing another stolen body; not the Ainley one.)
> Eric Roberts
> Geoffrey Beevers (Survived the TV movie as a morphant snake and stole more bodies, but reverted to the Beevers body each time.)
> Alex MacQueen (Restored to a new body by the Time Lords, likely in preparation for the Time War.)
> Derek Jacobi
> John Simms
> Michelle Gomez***
My take on the situation was that the Traken, "crispy" Master was his last legitimate incarnation monitored by The Gallifreyan Matrix! Ainley was his 1st stolen body! The only return that bothered me in Classic Who had The Master come back after "The Planet Of Fire!" That really should have been it! Same after being shot in NuWho, but due to a religion he created working both sides, he was brought back again! Now he's survived an encounter w/ Rassilon himself in "The End Of Time!" I can actually wait for this explanation to come!
***-The Master Delgado; sadly died in a car wreck IRL. Last seen w/ a touch of the Ogrons.
-The Master Pratt-Beevers; the Mumm-Ra version, who I prefer to think of as separate to Delgado since it's faintly distasteful to have the late Delgado's own Master showing up looking like a rotting corpse.
-The Master Ainley; a fused/possessed version of the Master in the body of Tremas (both played by Ainley) who presumably died in the process. Last seen on an exploding cat-planet.
-The Master Tipple: The pair of cat's eyes at the beginning of the movie. May be a different incarnation, or may be an imitation of Ainley's. There isn't enough clear footage to tell. Executed by the Daleks.
-The Master Roberts: Another possessed version, the Master presumably using some kind of symbiote to transfer his consciousness. Pulled int the Eye of Harmony.
:At some point offscreen, the Master is resurrected by the Time Lords w/ a new regeneration cycle to take part in The Time War, but...
-The Master Jacobi: ...running from the Time War in fear, the Master re-wrote his memories and biology into the fake identity of Professor Yana. However, he awoke in this form and was recognisably the Master even if only for a few minutes before he was shot by his assistant.
-The Master Simms: The Master regenerates into a younger form to rival the Doctor's. He is shot dead (again), but made arrangements for his revival, which his wife sabotages, causing instability; his resurrected body is born dying. Last seen shooting Rassilon w/ lightning bolts from his hands as they fell through a portal back into the Time War (presumably).
-The Mistress Gomez: ...Who knows what the Hell happened here.***
***Did Missy orchestrate Danny's death? - I'm thinking yes, since she was talking in earlier episodes about Clara being a useful tool. For all we know, she may even have orchestrated Clara meeting Danny and falling in love.***
ReplyDeleteIn her 1st couple episodes, a message was sent to her! That was never explained IIRC, but I don't re-watch the show as much to pick up nuances or solutions to perceived plot holes!
***Who is the worst NuWho companion; Rose or Clara?***
Several faves have had moments of weakness or selfishness, but what Clara did is w/o a doubt one of the most treacherous things I've seen; even worse than Turlough who was under the thumb of the Dark Guardian! Using The Doctor's trust by collecting all those keys and trying to drug and blackmail him was too much! If I had been the Doctor, I would have chucked her over the edge in that "Dream Volcano" just to see her look of shock and just "for grins!" I knew when he said "go to HELL," he couldn't have possibly meant the figurative meaning of the statement! I almost thought we had "jumped the shark" if the script had gone w/ "Greek mythology" and had the TARDIS land off the "river Styx!"
***I like Clara. I thought she was bland before, but now she's actually a human w/ flaws. People still root for the Doctor despite all his many many mistakes. People rooted for Amy despite her awful treatment of Rory. Clara could chop Danny's head off and no one would bat an eyelid. But don't she DARE utter a bad word to the Doctor. That is the most heinous crime a companion could commit. (I'm not even considering the volcano scene since this started way before that).***
Oh I've written her off for all time! To save her rep, it'll probably be scripted that she was under some kind of mind control! The thing is, I can imagine her having such a plan! She's been wishy-washy about being associated w/ The Doctor all season; such emotional conflicts! "PLEASE drop her soon!"
***...there was a rather interesting occurrence in "Dark Water." We're led to believe in 'Deep Breath' that the lady who gave Clara the Tardis phone # was Missy. But when Clara and the Doctor are together w/ Missy, Clara doesn't say anything like, "That's her Doctor, that's the lady in the shop who gave me your phone #!" Sooooo...
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This was a woman who gave her a phone # to one of the greatest people in the universe though. TBH now, I can't even remember what the shopkeeper looks like.***
It's just been an open possibility; Missy, The Rani, or River in another incarnation! They've been good about carrying an arc over a period of years and bringing the threads together! It had to be someone associated w/ the Doctor who either wanted to help him or to make sure he survived until a certain time later!
***In "Dark Water/Death In Heaven," before the Doctor gets a chance to kill Missy, she disappears in a burst of blue atoms. Then we see a Cyberman in the distance w/ his arm raised implying that he shot her. But is that really the end for Missy? Two reasons to say it's not the end for Gomez's Missy:
ReplyDelete- Firstly, the Master has had 2 previous 'deaths' where his body was severely damaged, yet the same regeneration appears later.
The Master is consumed by fire at the end of the "Planet Of Fire." Yet the same regeneration reappears later during "Caves Of Androzani" w/o any explanation for how he survived burning up.
The Master is cremated at the end of "Last Of The Timelords," yet the same regeneration reappears in "End Of Time" thanks to a magic spell.
So there is precedence for Missy to return as her current regeneration, even after 'death.'
- Secondly, have we seen someone die like that from a Cyberman, where they are atomized?
Usually their special effects involve explosions or electricity, w/ physical remains being left behind. This has been shown to be the case as of "Nightmare In Silver." However this season when someone has been atomized, they have ended up within the Nethersphere. So if Missy was killed, she could be uploaded to the Nethersphere, which she has been shown to easily traverse; or the Cyberman didn't get a chance to shoot her b/c she had teleported away. So what's your belief on her fate?
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I looked at the scene frame by frame and it looks like a blue "bolt" made contact with Missy. - *Sigh*… Why, in New Who, do they always feel the need to kill off the current regeneration of the Master within exactly 2 episodes of him/her revealing themselves to the Doctor? Why couldn't they have traveled together for awhile? No, that would have been too much fun for the fans.
I really hope this time they're going to have a little bit of sense and have had that blue bolt be a teleport and not the Brigadier's cyber-gun. And what was Clara so pissed at Missy for anyway? She didn't kill Danny, a car did. All Missy did was bring him back to her, and then try to give the Doctor a present (okay fine, I'm oversimplifying a little bit… but still, Missy didn't kill him). B/c let's face it, the Master/Mistress is now and has always been in love w/ Doc.
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I mean, whether Missy was or wasn't killed this time, of course, doesn't matter in the end, she'll be back eventually in some form or another; probably after the Doctor's next regeneration, and probably only for one 2-part episode again. Wow, the originality. Why couldn't they have her escape? That would be too much of, oh I don't know, an interesting change of pace?? Just ridiculous. Why the need to keep killing him/her every time? I get that she's a villain, but still, it just seems kind of cruel.
While we're poking at and questioning things, I thought the Master was only evil b/c of the drumming that Rassilon put in his/her head? So why is she still evil now and not nice like when she was Professor Yana? This is what you get when you try to apply any expectation of logic or consistency to the Whoniverse: a Crucible-sized headache!
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...Where is Danny now? Where is Gallifrey? These questions save the Missy one cause we know it now, can lead to another season. ...***
Were both lying at their fairwell; Clara keeping Danny info to herself and maybe the Doctor not finding Gallifrey! Is that what happened?
***"DW" has been implicitly marketed as a continuation of the classic series since its return in '05. No continuity announcer said, "And now, we begin a series of adventures set in an alternate universe to the fondly remembered sci fi show, Doctor Who!" There have been reimaginings, continuity errors and clashes, and some best-forgotten moments, but as others have pointed out, there are bigger discrepancies w/in the old series than you will find btw the old and new. ...DW series that began in '05 is indeed a continuation of the series that ran from 1963-89, along w/ a one-off story in '96.
ReplyDeleteRose: The Doctor is a traveller in time and space. He has a ship called the TARDIS, which is currently stuck in the form of a police box, and a sonic screwdriver. Ring any bells? He also encounters a familiar species called the Nestene and they in turn have servants who closely resemble the Autons from 2 Pertwee adventures.
The End of the World: The Doctor is identified as a Time Lord. He explains to Rose how she can apparently speak and understand alien languages - an explanation that resembles that given by the 4th Doctor to Sarah Jane.
The Aliens of London: There is a military organisation called UNIT. They know the Doctor and he knows them.
Dalek: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Daleks in the original series? The Cybermen too - the Doctor recognised the head of one.
Tooth and Claw: The Doctor takes the name of one of his 1960s companions - Jamie McCrimmon - as a pseudonym. There sure are a lot of similarities btw these 2 alternate universes, aren't there?
School Reunion: And it turns out that in this alternate universe, there is an alternate Sarah Jane Smith and an alternate robot dog called K9, and when Sarah Jane and Rose are arguing/comparing notes, it emerges that this alternate Sarah Jane had all the same adventures as the "original" Sarah Jane!
Rise of the Cybermen: The Doctor is horrified as he has seen this happen before.
The Satan Pit: References to 3rd Doctor story The Daemons.
Army of Ghosts: Not direct evidence, but countering counter evidence: Prior to this episode, it is clear that the 10th Doctor knew no more about Torchwood than the previous 9.
Human Nature: Images of previous Doctors are seen, something that will recur. The Doctor uses his favourite pseudonym from the original series.
Utopia: Well what do you know, the Doctor's old chum the Master is back - and he's remembering his past adventures. Is it all new material written esp. for the standalone alternate universe series?
Planet of the Ood: Mentions a planet last seen in 1 of Hartnell's early stories.
The Sontaran Stratagem: Hmm, now where have we seen those short armoured guys before?
The Doctor's Daughter: Well Jenny doesn't look like she was born of David T's genes. Maybe somebody else's?
The Stolen Earth/Journey's End: Sarah Jane is surprised to see Davros alive. Anyone would think this Sarah Jane had experienced the events of Genesis of the Daleks.
The Next Doctor/The Eleventh Hour: More images of past Doctors, all the same as the ones from the original series.
The Wedding of River Song: Clear reference to the passing away of the Brigadier.
Asylum of the Daleks: Various references to Doctor vs Dalek stories from the original series, including The Dalek Masterplan and Planet of the Daleks. Past versions of the Daleks.
The Snowmen: Return of a menace from the days of Patrick Troughton's Doctor, with explicit (and gratuitous) references to details of the 2 relevant stories.
The Name, Night, Day and Time of the Doctor: Positively wallows in original series nostalgia.
So, how does that stack up against the likes of "The Silurians look different?"
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Doctor Who - The Movie showed us the regeneration from 7th to 8th
Night of the Doctor showed us the regeneration from 8th to War Doctor
Day of the Doctor showed the regeneration from War Doctor to 9th - It's an unbroken chain.***
***Would you like to have seen the Master face the 11th Doctor? I would have.***
ReplyDeleteThey over-did the Master IMO; esp. back during the Pertwee era when he was stranded on Earth! Every week, it was one plot after another! They brought him back after he was supposedly gone due to a lack of regenerations, but found a way to over-utilize him again at the end of "Logopolis & Castovalva!" The reboot has been little better; as if he's the Doctor's most dangerous and evil of adversaries!
***I definitely would not have, esp. if the Master was still Missy. Face it, Missy is basically River Song 2.0, so we'd be watching Series 6 all over again - and no one wants that. - Which Master do you think was the nastiest?
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They've all been total shits, but who do you think was the most evil?
The Ainley Master was the most vicious. He murdered small cute animals for fun!
Missy would be next. She killed Osgood for no reason and her own servants on a whim. However she still did have some affection for the Doctor so that's at least slightly better than Ainley who didn't care for anyone but himself.
Next would be the Crispy Master who was a shit, but at least had the excuse of trying to save his own life.
The Roberts Master would probably be next. He was the same, a nasty guy, but again only cared about saving his own life.
Next up would be Delgado. He was ruthless and vicious, but at least he thought he was bringing order to the universe and would make it a better place if he took over. He also didn't kill unless he had to and didn't seem to take an actual pleasure in killing.
Last would be Simm. He was definitely the least evil, even though he was a mass murdering lunatic. He is the only one of them to do a good thing in saving the Doctor from Rassilon, though a lot of people said he only did it to get Rassilon; I disagree. He also, when blasting Rassilon at least acknowledged how evil he had become and is the only Master to demonstrate bravery in that act.
As for Jacobi's Master, we don't know enough about him, but he seemed more like Delgado as he didn't kill Chantho until he had to; "Now I can say I was provoked." If that had been Missy or Ainley, they would have killed her instantly.
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Simm was the nastiest IMO or Beevers & the other 1. While Delgado and Ainley would help reverse what they did[mostly Delgado's], ...Simm and Beevers both were vicious and cruel to the Doctor and it wasn't just about the game or being close w/ the Doctor anymore, it was about revenge. It became about doing the most horrible things to the Doctor he could think of.
Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords- That Master scared me to death and made me sick to think what if it really had happened. He was very cruel. To this day, he is the incarnation of the Master I'd fear most. He burned Japan just to make a point to Martha and made her family stand on deck and watch as all those people burned to death. That's just one of the many times he was cruel. It was also one of the times in DW I was thinking and fearing that this was the end of the show b/c I couldn't see how they were possibly going to get out of that one, not even the Doctor. I thought they were very powerful episodes and the Master was very scary and completely out of his mind.
While Delgado would eventually listen to reason and help the Doctor stop his own plan and it was just about playing a game/having fun w/ the Doctor, Simm's Master wasn't listening to the Doctor. He didn't want to hear anything the Doctor had to say, he'd had enough of him, he was out of his mind making jokes out of peoples deaths and had no limits to his cruelty.
'End of Time' brings that relationship back w/ Simm. It wasn't about being cruel to humans to hurt the Doctor to the core, it was more about messing w/ the Doctor as the game they've always played and then helping him defeat the major enemy in the end.***
***In series 2, the 10th Doctor made it clear that parallel universes were controlled by Timelords and they could in fact pass through w/ ease, but now that they're gone, they were seperated. Once you were there you can't come back. If the Timelords return, then Rose (also known as the Doctors psycho stalker, ex-gf) will hunt him down til the end of time itself. She had already done it once even breaking the writers own continuity. Shed probably murder Meta Ten in his sleep just to be w/ her Doctor.***
ReplyDeleteShows how much attention I've paid since the re-boot! It never occurred to me that Time Lords could or would be interfering in parallel universes! I guess it makes sense that they would; thinking themselves omnipotent! The Doctor did a lot on his own by accident! They probably dabbled quite a bit in other dimensions and universes; at least monitoring their affairs!
***10 Worst Master Stories:
Last of the Time Lords. The worst Doctor Who story of all time, which not coincidentally featured the Master.
It's a battle for 2nd place! - No it isn't. The 2nd worst Master story (DW story in general) was the most recent one.
3rd, The End of Time. "I've got this brilliant idea - everybody becomes the Master!" "Okay, Russ. And where will you go w/ that idea?" "I, er, will have them mill around for a bit, then go back to not being the Master."
4th, the TV Movie. The Master has been burnt to ashes for the 2nd time of 3. But that's okay, he's a snake now. And he wants the Doctor's remaining regenerations. That's a good plotline to introduce newcomers!
5th, The Mark of the Rani. The Master has come back from some sticky situations, but this is the 1st time he's come back from being unambiguously killed. And he's not needed b/c the Rani's role is quite sufficient.
6th, Timeflight. There isn't any reason for anything that happens in this story, but even against this background the Master's behaviour is strange, and not in an interesting way.
7th, Survival. Not terrible... well actually it is. That motorcycle scene. And the "If we fight like animals" stuff.
8th, The Claws of Axos. Not bad, just a bit dull.
9th, Colony in Space. Dull, and better in the novelisation, but okay.
10th, The Time Monster. As daft as a plug, but mostly in a good way. Fun.
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...I'm sure Rose would have stayed w/ 11 anyway. She was upset that 10 was leaving. It's comparable to Clara's "please don't change." I don't mind that bit, its actually quite sweet TBH, but it's all the crap we get in the next episode that makes it too stupid.***
I can do w/o either Rose and Clara TBH! Both whine entirely too much, cause more problems than they help w/, and in general are kinda selfish and needy! I prefer a more professional companion; even a savage like Leila who can at least defend herself! Rose got tough in the end, but she had already overstayed her welcome IMO! I still don't know what happened w/ "her" Doctor in the alternate universe! Did she kill him, then go after the original? Anybody? At least Martha moved on and married someone else instead of pining away like Rose! Clara doesn't know WTF she wanted; leaving her real BF periodically to wander the universe w/ the Doctor! Now he's gone!
***Why doesn't Doctor Who have a black and white episode?***
If they have a multi-Doctor ep going back to (Sean) Pertwee, Davison, and McCoy, it might be nice to do something like that in B&W!
***I'm very OK w/ the 25-minute serialized format in Classic Who. However, I do wish that Most (certainly not all) of the 5-part, 6-part and 7-part serials would have been condensed down by at least 1 or 2 eps. A lot of the longer serials are padded and have either unnecessary chases or imprisonments/escapes that rarely move the story forward.***
ReplyDeleteI guess I was spoiled, in Chicago PBS always played the 4 eps together while the 6-parter was split over 2 Sundays; (10/10) "The Talons Of Weng Chiang!"
***I'm halfway through watching 'Talons of Weng-Chiang,' and I just gotta say how much I'm loving Leela as a companion. She's totally bad ass! I hated most of the 60's DW b/c the women were always so annoying. Literally screaming over shadows, bloody useless whiners. Mind you, I loved Zoe and Vicki was cool too, but the rest... ugh! Now Leela, on the other hand, is just awesome! Brave, strong, a real fighter! Still has a naivety due to her primitive upbringing, but she brings a lot to the show as a companion!
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"The Talons of Weng-Chiang" is my all-time fave 'Doctor Who' story. The other Who DVDs I own that feature Leela as a companion are:
'The Robots of Death' (Story 90)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93d4koFvYCE -
The Doctor and his new companion Leela arrive aboard a huge sandminer on a deserted world and are immediately accused of murder.
'Horror of Fang Rock' (Story 92)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ocIVh0buc -
There's something hunting the occupants in a lighthouse on Fang Rock circa 1902.
'The Invasion of Time' (Story 97)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So43FG6tWq0 -
In this sequel to 'The Deadly Assassin' (Story 88), the Doctor returns to Gallifrey and betrays his people. Or does he?
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Will anyone else quit watching if the 13th Doctor is a woman?***
I can't be sure; I'd have to see it, but "out of hand" I think the idea stinks! Call me a misogynist pig; I'll wear the 'stamp' proudly! I had enough trouble dealing with Miss "know-it-all" River Song! If there's a vote taken, I will be going "thumbs down" on it!
***Anyone shallow enough to jump ship over the mere idea alone should have already done so.***
Agreed! My heart hasn't been in it since very early on in the 'reboot!' It tested "cannon" and Classic Who loyalist probably can't totally "go over to the dark" side as is! I tape every show, but never take them out to see again and again like I would a classic Dalek episode; "Genesis ..." or "Destiny ...!" The "Keys To Time" arc is still worth watching! I'll watch a little of 10 if I happen to surf by, but it's nothing I HAVE TO SEE! I'd rather pull out "Blake's 7" episodes! They're classic Terry Nation too!
***Missy should have been The Rani***
I could have lived w/ the Rani, but not the Master! That stunk; sorry!
***Old Who Fans; what do you dislike about the new Who the most? - the romance thing & - more interesting and original monsters. (Daleks and Cybermen overused).***
ReplyDeleteYou covered it all, but the romance thing is really getting tedious! I can't think of a Classic Doctor even being flirted w/; was sci-fi and shouldn't have anything to do w/ romance! The Daleks and Cybermen were definitely overused, but always entertaining! Thanks!
***Having finished w/ the Moffat era, I'm watching the RTD era now, starting w/ S1 (and I have to say the 9th Doctor is a lot better than what I was lead to believe...and I really hope he makes an appearance next year for the 10th ann. of New Who). That said, 3 episodes in, I've noticed a pattern as far as the Doctor and his 1st 3 eps w/ a new Companion.
So let's start w/ the 9th Doctor and Rose. In the 1st episode, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth, and w/ Rose's help, foils an invasion by Autons. Rose then joins him. In the 2nd ep, he takes Rose to the far future to an alien space-station where she meets several alien cultures as well as a future human. In the 3rd ep, he takes Rose to the past, to 1869, to meet Charles Dickens and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Gaelth.
Then onto the 11th Doctor and Amy: In the 1st ep, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth and w/ Amy (and Rory's) help, puts an end to Prisoner Zero's antics and defends the planet from the Atraxi. Amy then joins him. In the 2nd episode, he takes Amy to the far future, to a space-ship where she meets future humans and an alien space whale. In the 3rd ep, he takes Amy to the past, to 1941, to meet Winston Churchill in the midst of WWII and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Daleks.
Finally, w/ the 11th Doctor and Clara: In the 1st ep, the Doctor shows up on contemporary Earth and with Clara's help, foils a scheme by the Great Intelligence. Clara then joins him. In the 2nd ep, he takes Clara to an alien world (in the future?), where she is exposed to an alien humanoid culture. In the 3rd episode, he takes Clara to the past, to the 1980's amidst the Cold War, and they have an adventure in this historical era against an alien menace, the Ice Warrior.
So it seems, broadly, that the pattern w/ the Doctor and New Companions is:
Ep. 1 - Adventure on contemporary Earth against hidden alien menace.
Ep. 2 - Adventure in the far future/outer space w/ aliens/future humans and grand extra-terrestrial spectacles.
Ep. 3 - Adventure on Earth, in the past, against an alien menace.***
Interesting; thanks!
***Would you consider the 'War Doctor' to be Classic-Era or Nu-Era...? - The War Doctor is nothing more than stunt casting for the an. special to draw in viewers outside of the fandom and inflate the viewing figures. I don't count him as canon, considering that he SHB played by McGann in the 1st place.***
ReplyDeleteWell it gave #9 a reason to be so morose and moody; always seeming to hold something back! It was an interesting concept and it worked out well; esp. the ending w/ 12 of them standing there! Gets me every time!
***I think it would have worked just as well (even better in fact) had #8 been the War Doctor. 8 was the epitome of the "Romantic Doctor" so to have him become involved in the Time War and changed into a dark and callous version of himself would have been incredibly interesting, but instead all his transformation amounted to was a magical potion that made him super grumpy; not really all that bad in the 50th. 9 could have been just as moody w/o the War Doctor being inserted into the timeline.***
You have to admit, at the end of "TNOTD" when Hurt turned around & "entitled" "The Doctor," it had to do something to your insides! I know I sat up a little straighter; enjoying his performances going back to "The Naked Civil Servant" 35 yrs before!
***Oh, it certainly did something to my insides. Mostly, it just made my eyes roll backwards towards the inside of my head. I'm glad that you, as a fan of Hurt, were able to get something out of that. IMO though, the fact that he had to be introduced on the screen: "John Hurt, as THE DOCTOR," only further proves how stunt cast he was. Moffat purposefully ended on that cliffhanger in order to draw in fans of John Hurt for the 50th an.. It was such artificial suspense. And to destroy the timeline of the Doctor's regenerations to do something so self-serving as create a brand new Doctor basically filled me w/ rage.
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The 11th Doctor is still my fave, though to be fair, I’m still trying to watch stories of the other Doctors, w/ me still haven’t seen the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, or 7th Doctors in their own standalone stories. Funnily enough, the 9th is still my least fave. I really have enjoyed the 12th Doctor. I quite enjoy his grumpiness and I tend to laugh a lot during his stories. Also, I find he works better w/ Clara than the 11th did, partially due to the fact that Clara was able to be more than just a mystery to be solved like in Series 7. I did have a problem with “Kill the Moon” though.
There was a lot of good in the 11th Doctor’s era. ...Rory had a great character arc over the show, going from the rather scared fellow in “The Eleventh Hour” to someone who punched Hitler, threatened robots, and went full badass when the people he cared about were threatened. Speaking of that, the main reason Rory is my favorite companion is his love and loyalty to Amy. The fact that he waited nearly 2,000 years for her says everything about his character that you need to know. We should all look up to Rory.
Now, the 11th Doctor’s era did have some flaws, esp. in Series 6 & 7. I felt it was repetitive to have the Doctor’s death be involved in both series. Also, the plot to kill the Doctor was a little stupid, mainly in the fact that since the Astronaut suit is shown to be automated in “The Impossible Astronaut” and “The Day of the Moon”, so River/Melody wasn’t needed at all. Also, Mels was just shoved into “Let’s Kill Hitler”. She wasn’t mentioned once before and was there just to have her regenerate in that ep. Series 7, unlike previous series, didn’t have any outstanding eps, just okay at best (this isn’t counting “The Day of the Doctor” which I enjoyed. And it had the worst ep, “The Angels Take Manhattan.” It was a bad ep. and a bad way to have Amy & Rory leave the series.***
***Ridley Scott & John Carpenter? Was it meant to be amusing to have The Doctor to not seen "Alien" & likely "The Thing" yet?***
ReplyDeleteWell that's unrealistic since "Seeds Of Doom" was produced years before John Carpenter made a name for himself with "Halloween" series and "The Thing!"
***John Carpenter's The Thing was a remake of a 1950s film.***
I'm quite aware of the original w/ James Arness, but I was just saying JC's remake had nothing to do w/ "Seeds Of Doom!" IIRC, it was produced in '76 and JC's "The Thing" didn't come out until 4 or 5 years later! If anything, JC borrowed from "DW!"
***Very happy that Clara will still be traveling in the Tardis in Series 9. - I'm glad she's staying. She's one of my favorites. I think they are really good together too.***
Even w/ her betrayal of the Doctor in "Dark Water?" She was willing to actual destroy him and herself b/c of her STUPID love for Danny! I call it stupid b/c as obnoxious as she is, she couldn't wait to say "I love YOU" in person; had to tell him on the phone which got him killed! Stupid BITCH!
***He didn't need to keep walking while talking, nor did he have to stroll on w/ gay abandon instead of looking where he was going. If she was insistent on talking to him right then, he could have found a spot to stand and chat instead of getting run over. Him not being aware of his surroundings isn't really Clara's fault.
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I rewatched "Day Of The Doctor" today. I paused as Clara comes out of the painting just to check out that extra hand people have mentioned here. It certainly can't be Clara's hand. I've seen speculation that the hand belongs to Missy. If that were true, then she escapes Galifrey before running to the end of the universe and hiding. Many things unravel if the hand is Missy's.***
What I don't understand is how The Master not only conspires w/ the Doctor's enemies, this time SHE actually had control! HOW in the world does this keep happening going back to Pertwee when he was stranded on Earth?
***B/c the Master wants to torture the Doctor for having his dad exiled from Galifrey by destroying what he loves; humans.***
Sorry; never heard that story before! I barely remember they were supposed to be friends! I don't re-watch and listen as much as I did w/ Classic Who so I miss some of those things I consider "plot holes!"
***It's probably from a book, not canon anyway. Yes, they were childhood friends. - how many times has the Doctor been told - "you would make a good Dalek?"
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In "Journey's End" they talked about the revealing of a Time Lord's soul- the anger, the slaughterer of millions, the one who committed genocide. So even if the Daleks didn't call him a Dalek, they called him a Dalek. What's worse, Davros called him a maker of Daleks and said he had shown him "himself." Whats worse, to be called a Dalek or to be asked, "how many more have died in your name?"***
"Family Of Blood" was on recently and tells you all you need to know about how vengeful and extreme the Doctor can be! He was running from them; not because he was afraid of what they'd do to him, but what he'd do to them!
***Series 8, w/ its emphasis on character arcs over plot-driven narrative, brings a new richness to Doctor Who, easily rivalling any series of the revived era. ..., “Death in Heaven” fails to capitalize on the incredible start provided by “Dark Water,” and falls far short of the high standard set by the rest of the series.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem w/ “Death in Heaven” is the poor portrayal of the Cybermen. Created in the 1960s as a response to the emergence of surgeries that replaced diseased organs w/ artificial prosthetics. The Cybermen have always represented mankind’s struggle to identify the boundary btw “man” and “machine,” and the fear that such “spare part” surgeries might inadvertently cross that line. “Death in Heaven” completely ignores this essential facet of the Cybermen mythos, instead depicting the cyber-conversion of dead bodies. Reanimated cadavers are not Cybermen; they’re zombies.
Unfortunately, these new Cybermen don’t even make good zombies. Part of the sadistic thrill of a zombie story is seeing the protagonists face their recently deceased family and friends, who have now returned as threats. How can you kill a monster that still looks like Grandma? Only Clara encounters a reanimated loved one, and Danny never becomes dangerous, despite having his emotional inhibitor chip enabled. The Cybermen in “Death in Heaven” do little more than lumber around like walking dead, as they await having their minds downloaded from the Nethersphere. “They’re not attacking,” states Colonel Ahmed, “They’re just wandering about.” ...The Cybermen in the morgue don’t even kill the attending coroner!
Since “Death in Heaven” does not portray the carnage of the Cybermen invasion, the Master must kill Osgood, a beloved supporting cast member to establish her threat level. It’s a scriptwriting shortcut, and a cheap one at that. ...In fact, despite the logic that U.N.I.T. would be Earth’s primary response to an invading army of Cybermen, “Death in Heaven” actually provides very little for the military task force to do. ...It's nice to further flesh out Kate, finding out that she’s a “divorcée” and “a mother of 2.” She’s as commanding as ever – fantastically capable, yet still human and relatable.
...“Death in Heaven” is filled w/ characters unrelatable to any rational, thinking person. I.E.:
If U.N.I.T. has the ability to both tranquilize and awaken a Time Lord in seconds on command, why would they risk leaving Missy conscious when she’s not being questioned by the Doctor? At the 1st sign of trouble aboard Boat One, why is everyone, save maybe a lone pilot, not loaded into the TARDIS?
Why does the Doctor leave Clara to 'mercy kill' Danny? The Doctor is willing to end the suffering of the space whale in “The Beast Below,” yet, despite needing information that only a fully cyber-converted Danny could provide, the Doctor just wanders away, overcome and distracted, and lets Clara do the dirty work.*** (tb cont.)
***(cont.,) 2nd, the numerous characters and forced plot twists in “Death in Heaven” leave the script little time to close its own narrative loops, leaving several unresolved plot points:
ReplyDeleteTrue to his word, the fully cyber-converted Danny doesn’t attack Clara. Why? Cyber-programming being overcome by love was saccharine in “Closing Time,” but now it’s hackneyed, esp. when the plot point is used twice in the same ep. At episode’s end, Danny is only able to resurrect 1 person w/ Missy’s Magic Plot Device Bracelet. A believable explanation might be that the bracelet can only transport 1 person at a time, that person then being unable to return the bracelet to the Nethersphere for the 2nd person’s use, w/o again trapping himself, etc. However, the bracelet is described as specifically having only “enough power for 1 trip,” despite Missy using it to flit back and forth btw realms, all series long.
Sure, Dan, Dan the Soldier Man gets to lead the troops as a commander, for once, rallying the Cyber-army to destroy the clouds threatening Earth. Further, Danny is able to correct the events of his “bad day,” and he sacrifices his opportunity to return to Clara in order for the boy he accidentally killed to have a chance at life. He dies a hero, which is narratively sound, though not inspired or unexpected.
Osgood, Colonel Ahmed, and Seb disappear unceremoniously, before the 3rd act, & Kate isn’t even conscious when she reappears briefly at the ep’s end.
Missy is murdered, not by Clara or the Doctor, but by a resurrected, cyber-converted Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. Like Danny, the Brig has also not succumbed to his cyber-programming and is responsible for saving Kate. The Doctor does get to salute the Brig, but the moment only feels sentimental b/c the episode tells the audience it s/b, not 30 mins prior. Again, the payoff is cheap and not earned over time.
The Doctor lies to Clara about discovering Gallifrey, alluding to his happiness and freeing her to, he assumes, “stay w/ Danny.” He does not wish to repeat the long goodbye of Amy and Rory.
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I don't think Michelle Gomez is an awful actress, but I do think she was a bad fit for The Master. And it seems to me lately that Moffat is just doing favors for his friends in giving them parts. The only way to explain the influx of AWFUL actors like the flop who plays Danny Pink, Oswin, Queen Elizabeth, etc.
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The ending was very touching and the scene where Capaldi smashes up the TARDIS in a fit of range was powerful. It is flawed (there are undeniably some things that don't make sense), but I think it is a very good finale on the same level as "Parting Of The Ways" & "Journey's End." 9/10 rating
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Who is the most beautiful woman in DW?
Top 5:
-Jo Grant
-Romana 1
-Polly
-Barbara
-Leela
I wish I had watched the DW stories w/ Jo Grant earlier seeing as she was the 1st female character I had a crush on growing up, made me realize I am a lesbian, along with other women. I just think Jo was a lovely woman, but scatter-brained sometimes, but lovely. Mary Tamm's, Romana was also very beautiful.***
***Any reason the Eccleston eps not replayed during XMas break? - Well if you consider that 8 seasons is 4 days and the Christmas specials another 8 hours or so, if they needed to take a season out to keep it under 4 days showing time, season 1 is the only 1 that would not be missed.***
ReplyDeleteIf you need to devote time to other series and at the same time "hose" Chris for mouthing off; why not? I wondered if he even thought the show would "take" and that it would end after that one series of the REBOOT?
***Who did Christopher Eccleston mouth off to?***
I DIDN'T pay any attention to the gossip going on behind the scenes! I WASN'T even drooling over who was going to be the next Doctor! I just see and hear that the relationship of Chris to the show wasn't the best! I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from reading the board! It was the same w/ Tom Baker in my day! He supposedly gave them all kinds of Hell; esp. near the end of his tenure! It made no difference to me and I can only tell you peripherally what went on even though I belonged to a DW group in the 80's called "The Children Of Rassilon!" Sorry I couldn't help you!
***Why Moffat ruined the Master - I loved Missy. She was more terrifying than Simm ever was. ...To be fair though, I hated his Master. I'd rank Eric Roberts over him. The "Say something nice" line was very creepy and showed how evil she is.***
Since I don't watch the repeats very often, I had forgotten Missy's "over the top" introduction at the end of "Deep Breath!" Were we supposed to know something about her? I totally blocked it out of my head! I'm guessing that was Missy who called Clara so early on; Moffett good at tying up "most" loose ends!
***3rd Doctor and Jo Grant - I love their final scene together in "The Green Death" such a tender and beautifully acted moment, you can see how much he is going to miss her.
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I do as well, and would add that the 5th Doctor had a similar relationship w/ Nyssa, who was also visibly upset at her departure. (So was I)***
I always preferred a companion that contributed and few did more than Nyssa; add Turlough, Adric, and Romana for tech reasons! Courageous behavior would be featured in Leela, Zoe, and my namesake, Jamie!
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I don't know how consummate a fan I really am, but I've always accepted what was presented to me; regardless if I liked it or not! I will point out cannon being violated, but so far the new producers are finding a way to make it acceptable! I'm just happy the show was re-booted in '05; hoping for the same w/ "Blake's 7," but I know it's doubtful!
***You always seem like a pretty serious fan of the series as a whole, old and new, and I agree: I always go w/ the flow and find things to like rather than dislike, unless there's a glaringly huge problem. ...an unacceptable way was "The Ultimate Foe" at the end of "Trial of a Time Lord," w/ its "oh crap, Bob Holmes died before he could write the finale, and now we have a weekend to make up whatever nonsense 1st comes to mind" desperate and nonsensical ending. ...I accept that change is a part of the show, and even if I'm unsure of a new change at 1st, I'll always go w/ it and see if it grows on me rather than assuming at the 1st sign of anything new that the show is in the process of 'jumping the shark.' I don't get how some fans can literally greet any announcement about anything with disdain. As for a "Blake's 7" revival... I've always felt like that's kind of what Firefly was! Obviously not exactly the same, but so similar in its premise that I at least consider it a big-time spiritual successor.***
***The Daleks are the Doctors most recurring enemies and are the only villain to date who has battled every single incarnation of the Doctor on screen. However whilst the Daleks have always remained effective villains of the Time Lord, it is true that certain incarnations of the Doctor have played off of the monsters much better than others.
ReplyDeleteThis can be for a # of reasons. Some Doctors just aren’t as well suited to the villains, others meanwhile don’t get a chance to interact w/ them as much. I will be looking at which Doctors were the best Dalek Doctors. We will also be looking at what each actor who played the Doctor thought of the Daleks.
1st Doctor & Daleks:
The 1st Doctor I felt was 1 of the best Doctors for the Daleks. It's just as well considering, depending on how you count them, he had more Dalek stories than any other Doctor to date. Though if you count 2-parters of the revival as 2 separate stories, then both the 10th and 11th Doctors have more Dalek stories. Either way the 1st Doctor has the most amount of Dalek eps.
There are as many eps w/ the Daleks in the 1st Doctor's era as there are w/ the 10th Doctor & 11th Doctor in total. The 10th Doctor is in 47 eps, whilst the 11th Doctor is in 44 episodes. Hartnell meanwhile has 42 Dalek eps. He also has as many Dalek eps as the 7th Doctor has in total in the series. The 7th Doctor is only in 42 eps. And finally The 1st Doctor is in more eps w/ the Daleks than the 6th Doctor is in total in the series and there are over 3X's many Hartnell eps w/ the Daleks as 9th Doctor eps in total. The great thing about the 1st Doctor’s interactions w/ the Daleks is that they really help to define who he is, and by extension all subsequent Doctors really are.
When we first meet the Hartnell Doctor, he couldn’t be more different from his successors. He is ruthless, selfish, cowardly even murderous. He doesn’t care about the affairs of other life forms, indeed he even looks down on them, calling human beings “primitives” and “savages.”
His morality at first doesn’t seem too different to the Daleks, as he considers himself and Susan above Ian and Barbara b/c they are human. However it is when he confronts the Daleks that we first see the changes in his character.
In the first Dalek story “The Daleks”, the Doctor to start w/ is callous and selfish, perfectly prepared to leave the Thals who have been lured into the Daleks city to their fate, and at one point even Barbara too! However by the end of the story when he sees how far the Daleks are willing to go, destroy an entire culture, an entire species in the blink of an eye it horrifies him.
The Doctor thus for the first time is actually morally outraged at what he is seeing around and actually takes a more active role in trying to stop the Daleks than he ever thought he would. At one point he is willing to give up the secrets of the TARDIS itself to the Daleks to try and save the Thals.
Within the one story we can see a huge change in the Doctors character due to his dealings w/ the Daleks. He goes from being willing to let the Thals walk into a trap to giving up his own time machine to save them. The evil of the Daleks shows him that there are some things in this universe that need fighting against. That’s the point of the story that people or rather creatures like the Daleks who hate others simply for who they are, just b/c they are different must always be fought, by everyone even those whom they are not persecuting.***
***I think that after “The Dalek Invasion of Earth,” we see the Doctor become involved much more often and gradually become more of a hero. After having got involved in stopping the Daleks, he finds that he can no longer sit back in any situation. He has discovered who he truly is in his dealings w/ the Daleks and seemingly what his role is in the universe to help those in need like the Thals and the humans of the 22nd century from the Daleks.
ReplyDeleteThus the Daleks really help to define who the Doctor is as a character during the first Doctor's era and that’s what makes his interactions w/ them so interesting. Of course I am not saying that all of the first Doctors development from a self serving character to a hero is b/c of the Daleks, but certainly a large part of it is and I think you can see his development more clearly across his 4 stories with the Daleks than w/ any of his other stories.
In “The Mutants” his first Dalek story, The Doctor is a character who throughout most of the story only cares for himself, and at one point is perfectly happy to leave the Thals to their fate. In his final Dalek story “The Daleks Masterplan” he is now someone who is willing to sacrifice his own life to stop the Daleks and thinks nothing of it.
William Hartnell apparently loved the Daleks. He stated in an interview taken btw the 1st % 2nd seasons of the show that he was delighted they would return in the new series. His wife Heather Hartnell would later say how much he loved them in an interview for the 20th anniv.
Despite this however, Hartnell later mentioned that he found the Daleks somewhat tricky to work w/, as he said it was hard for him acting against an inanimate object. He also apparently didn’t like them being overused stating “I hope we don’t overuse them. I was very clear on that w/ producers. I told them we must not let the series descend into constant Dalek battles. They must be used sparingly.”
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2nd Doctor & Daleks:
For me the 2nd Doctor could very well be the best Dalek Doctor of them all. Even though he only got 2 Dalek stories, I still honestly can’t think of a Doctor better suited for his archenemies than the 2nd Doctor.
The 2nd Doctor’s Dalek stories were written by David Whitaker. Now Whitaker as I have explored gave us an entirely new interpretation of the Daleks. His Daleks were manipulative, physically powerful, able to understand humans and less alien than Nation's. All of this made them the perfect match for the 2nd Doctor.***
***The Second Doctor was quite a manipulative character. On the surface he seemed like a silly, bumbling oaf, who resorted to a state of childlike panic whenever anything went wrong. However underneath he was arguably one of the most cunning and wily Doctors of them all.
ReplyDeleteHe often used his clown like facade to throw his enemies like the Cybermen and the Ice Warriors all of whom greatly underestimated him off. The Daleks in Troughton’s time similarly often manipulated their opponents by pretending to be harmless, even docile little robots. “I AM YOUR SERVANT”. In “The Power of the Daleks” the Daleks dupe the human colonists into thinking that they are peaceful and everyone on the colony has no idea what they are dealing w/. Only the Doctor knows just how dangerous they are. They’re devious tactics don’t work on him, he can see them for what they really are. At the same time however, his tactics don’t work on them either. His usual “oh my giddy aunt” pretending to be a moron and a fool does not dupe them. They know him too and they know how powerful he truly is.
That’s what makes the 2nd Doctors interactions with the Daleks so fascinating. We see these 2 incredibly powerful creatures, The Doctor and the Daleks, make everyone else around them think they are harmless.
We also see how they use everyone around them including even the Doctor's own companions like pieces on a chess board. The Doctor risks Jamie’s life in trying to manipulate the Daleks in “The Evil of the Daleks.”
This really helped to reinforce the idea of the Daleks being the worst of the Doctor's many enemies. All of his usual tactics could work on the Cybermen, but w/ the Daleks, he had to go that extra mile. He was pushed to his very limits in trying to get one over on them, which is why he risks Jamie’s life, something you could never imagine him doing in any other story, to try and stop them in 'Evil.'
In “Evil of the Daleks” both the Doctor and the Daleks constantly manage to get one over on the Doctor until the Doctor finally beats them. To begin w/ the Daleks get one over on the Doctor by stealing his TARDIS and luring him across time itself. Then when they force him to isolate the human factor, he tricks them by making the humanized Daleks friendly. The Daleks however manage to trick him again by revealing that the technology he has given them will allow them to isolate the Dalek factor and use it to destroy humanity. They then make him their servant, but he is able to trick them one last time by pretending that they have enslaved him and infecting them w/ the human factor.
Patrick Troughton generally tends to underplay it when facing the Daleks, a sign that he is genuinely afraid this time unlike w/ his usual hysterical reactions. I'm not sure how Patrick Troughton’s Doctor would have worked w/ another take on the Daleks. He really lucked out in that Whitaker’s Daleks were such a perfect fit for his Doctor. For the first time, the Daleks actually mirrored the Doctor somewhat, as they both used the same tactics on one another. They were both deceitful, but one obviously used these tactics for good, the other for evil.
Sadly modern generations can’t enjoy the 2nd Doctor's interactions w/ the Daleks properly as only ep 2 of “The Evil of the Daleks” survives w/ all other eps having been junked. Still you should check out the recons on Youtube or the surviving audio tapes to get a glimpse of what are IMO the greatest Doctor/Dalek interactions.
Patrick Troughton was very fond of the Daleks too, just like Hartnell was. Apparently he even counted “The Evil of the Daleks” among his favourites and near the end of his life offered to remake the serial to the BBC who sadly turned him down.***
***3rd Doctor & Daleks:
ReplyDeleteThe Third Doctor I feel was not only a very effective Dalek Doctor, but also a very influential one too. He was I think the 1st Doctor who really demonstrated a hatred for them. The previous 2 Doctors had obviously been willing to destroy the Daleks, but you never got the impression that they despised them.
With the 3rd Doctor however, there were hints that he did despise them. It wasn’t as pronounced as say the 9th Doctor, but still you could see little moments btw 3 and the Daleks that were precursors to the likes of 9 and 11’s interactions w/ the monsters.
The 3rd Doctor is actually shown to take pleasure in destroying the Daleks or watching them be destroyed. In “Planet of the Daleks” after destroying a Dalek he remarks that “for a man who abhors violence I took an immense satisfaction in that”. Then there is the scene in “Death to the Daleks” where he happily watches an electric root destroy a Dalek and actually cheers it on!
Its hard to imagine the 3rd Doctor doing something like that. Actually take pleasure in another life form’s destruction. The 3rd Doctor was one of the most virtuous Doctors of them all, so once again this was a perfect way to show how the Daleks were the Doctor’s worst enemies that they could provoke this type of reaction from him, that even the Master couldn’t.
Interestingly enough Jon Pertwee hated the Daleks. He said he found them to be laughable and boring villains. However I think he was actually able to work that into his performance quite well, as Pertwee’s own real life contempt for the Daleks was reflected in the 3rd Doctors hatred of them.***
4th Doctor & Daleks:
ReplyDeleteNow I think that Tom Baker has the single greatest Dalek story of all time “Genesis of the Daleks” and is obviously one of the best Doctors of all time. However sadly I don’t think he was a good Dalek Doctor at all. In both of his 2 stories to start w/ he actually has very little interaction w/ the monsters. It's really Davros he interacts w/ instead. In “Genesis” he must share the screen for all of 2 mins w/ the monsters.
Look at the 3rd Doctor's reaction a lone Dalek in “Day of the Daleks” compared to the 4th Doctor being cornered by them in “Destiny of the Daleks” where he practically laughs at them.
“If you’re supposed to be the superior creatures of the universe, why don’t you try climbing after us? BYE BYE.”
Thus even though he has the best Dalek story and probably the best Dalek related moment w/ the “have I the right” speech, I’d say the 4th Doctor was probably the worst fit for the Daleks of all the Doctors, and its probably just as well they didn’t use them that often during his tenure. Tom Baker has always said that the Daleks were his fave monsters b/c they were the children’s faves.
The 80’s Doctors & Daleks:
Now I love all 3 80’s Doctors, but sadly I can’t really devote any time to their interactions w/ the Daleks. The reason is that none of them really had any memorable interactions w/ the monsters. ...the Daleks don’t really get to interact w/ the Doctor much in their time as Davros takes centre stage, and therefore most of the Doctor's interactions are w/ Davros instead.
That’s not to say there aren’t some great Doctor Dalek moments. The 7th Doctor being cornered by a Dalek flying up the stair after him, for the 1st time! Is surely one of the most iconic moments in Who history. I also felt there was a lot of potential for for all 3 80’s Doctors to be good Dalek Doctors. The 5th Doctor being a much more vulnerable character would have worked well as we could have seen how affected he was by the evil they caused and how, if anything they managed to push him too far. The 6th Doctor would have made an excellent Dalek Doctor due to his darker nature, you can imagine him getting angry and wanting to destroy every single last one of them. The 7th Doctor meanwhile due to his more manipulative nature I think would have been a good match for David Whitaker type of Daleks, more manipulative and sly villains.
Sadly however none of this potential was ever really realized on screen. The 80’s Doctors would go on to encounter the Daleks many more times in the Big Finish Audio stories, free of Davros. Of all of them I’d say the 6th Doctor is the best Dalek Doctor. I think that the 6th Doctor's interactions w/ the Daleks are actually among the most interesting.
However since we are only looking at their tv encounters w/ the Daleks, then sadly I have to conclude that all 3 80’s Doctors did not have any memorable interactions w/ the Daleks. I love “Resurrection of the Daleks”, “Revelation of the Daleks” and “Remembrance of the Daleks” all classics, but never the less like I said the Doctor doesn’t really get to interact w/ them much in any of those stories, except shoot them or run away from them and instead the villain he gets to play off of is now Davros instead. Thus we never get to establish a relationship w/ any of the 80’s Doctors and the Daleks the way we did w/ the first 3.
For this same reason I will also be overlooking the 8th Doctor’s interactions w/ the Daleks, as again he only encountered them once on tv, via archive footage in “The Day of the Doctor” so its not really possible to est. what kind of a relationship he had with them. Similarly I will also be skipping the War Doctor who also only encountered them in one scene.
All of the 80’s Doctors loved the Daleks, Colin Baker said they were his fave monsters whilst Sylvester McCoy has said that he didn’t feel like the true Doctor until he fought the Daleks, which didn’t happen until the 1st story of his 2nd series.***
9th Doctor & Daleks:
ReplyDeleteNow the 9th Doctors interactions w/ the Daleks are probably the most celebrated and it's not hard to see why. Christopher Eccelston really captured the hatred the Doctor had for the villains, which had only been made worse by the Time War.
In many ways the 9th Doctors interactions w/ the monsters, captured all of the very best elements of the 1st 3 Doctors interactions w/ them. Like the 1st Doctor, the 9th Doctor's character is really shaped by his dealings w/ the Daleks. It is the Daleks who after all made him into a much darker, more bitter and hateful character at the start of the series due to the Time War. Eventually his darker qualities are fully brought to the fore in “Dalek” where he ends up pointing a gun at Rose to murder the Dalek that is now defenseless. Here he realizes just how far he has come, how low he has sunk and w/ Rose’s help he's able to put his hatred behind him and move on and become a much better person. ...Unlike before where he (seemingly) slaughtered billions of innocent people in the Time War to stop them, now he proudly declares that he would happily be “a coward” rather than a killer any day, and thus much like w/ the 1st Doctor we see what type of man he truly is through his dealings w/ the Daleks.
Like the 2nd Doctor we also see some rather interesting parallels btw the Doctor and the Daleks during his time too. We see how both of them lost everything during the war and have become mere shadows of their former selves. Its not just a question of the both lost their entire worlds, but everything they believed in and even represented went up in flames at the end. The Doctor believed himself to be a good man “never cowardly nor cruel” yet he had now butchered billions of innocent men, women and children. The Daleks meanwhile believed themselves to be destined to be the masters of the universe, but had now been virtually wiped out. They were for all intents and purposes a dead race, a thing of the past, w/ the few survivors living in the shadows and filth of other races like human beings. Thus both of them when we see them are mere shells of their former selves. The Daleks are mad or half human hybrids, the Doctor is angry, bitter and vengeful and even somewhat inept as a hero.
When the 9th Doctor says to the Dalek that “everything you stood for is gone” he is talking to himself just as much as he is to the Dalek. However at the same time whilst we see this rather interesting similarity btw the Doctor and the Daleks, we also see how the Doctor is ultimately stronger.
Finally the 9th Doctor obviously took 3’s hatred of them to a whole other level w/ the 9th Doctor at one point promising to exterminate the entire Dalek race at the end of “The Parting of the Ways” and trying to murder a defenseless Dalek out of no reason other than vengeance in “Dalek”.
Of course a lot of credit for the 9th Doctors wonderful interactions w/ the Daleks has to go to Russell T Davies too. He was an excellent writer for the Daleks and really not only beefed them up as villains overall, but also their relationship w/ the Doctor too.
Eccelston though claiming to have never been that much of a DW fan growing up had stated that he nevertheless always enjoyed watching Dalek stories as he found them fascinating, that a creature like a Daleks could be so evil and so pathetic at the same time. He also said he always wanted to see what the creature inside looked like.***
10th Doctor & Daleks:
ReplyDeleteNow originally I didn’t think much of the 10th Doctors interactions w/ the Daleks. After the way 9 played off of them, 10 seemed a bit tame in comparison. Now however I think that was actually the right thing to do as it made sense that that would be how the Doctor would react to them at this point in his life. The Tenth Doctor was a much more benevolent figure than 9 was. After having reached the absolute low point of his life as 9, 10 obviously was trying to control his darker impulses instead and become more like the hero he had been centuries earlier.
However we could see that that dark side in the 9th Doctor was still there lurking under the surface in 10 and would occasionally be let out such as against the Racnoss. Thus when 10 is around the Daleks, he has to hold it together every second. You can tell he wants to lose it and destroy them completely.
This is seen in “Daleks in Manhatten/ Evolution of the Daleks” where he is genuinely devastated that they have survived yet again “they always survive while I lose everything”. And also w/ his clone who acts in the way 10 would very much like to and finally wipes the Daleks out and makes them pay for all they have done to him.
10’s interactions w/ the Daleks also paved the way for 11’s, as w/ 9 we see a Doctor who embraces his hatred of the monsters and is taken to a very dark place, where he ends up pointing a gun at Rose in order to destroy the Metaltron. Thus 10 tries to hold that hatred in check and even tries to show compassion to the Daleks. However this results in great catastrophe for him. ... as had he just destroyed Dalek Caan there and then the Daleks would have been finished, but his compassion allowed Caan to escape.
Thus 11 has a renewed hatred and even stronger desire to finish them forever as a result of 10’s mistakes. Therefore whilst his interactions may not have been quite as tense as 9’s were, I still think 10 had quite an interesting dynamic w/ them, and served as the perfect bridge btw the 9th and the 11th Doctors, both of whom utterly despised the Daleks.
David Tennant having been a life long DW fan absolutely adored the Daleks. His favorite ever story is in fact “Genesis of the Daleks” and he has said that it was actually this story that got him interested in DW in the 1st place.***
***11th Doctor & Daleks:
ReplyDeleteNow not many people think that the 11th Doctor was that well suited to the Daleks. Personally, however I’d rank him as 1 of the Doctors who played off of them the best. The 11th Doctor much like the 9th and the 3rd had a passionate hatred of the monsters. He reacted w/ violence towards them and was even shown again much like both the 3rd and 9th Doctors to take a delight in destroying them.
In some ways I actually found this to be more effective than the 9th Doctor's interactions w/ them. The thing about Matt’s Doctor is again much like Jon Pertwee, he is the last Doctor you’d expect to do something like that. You’d expect it from Chris who is a darker, more volatile Doctor, but Matt’s sweet, funny, painfully uncool Doctor is the last you’d expect to see casually tear open a Dalek.
What’s even more disturbing is how calm he is in doing it as well. Unlike the 9th Doctor, he doesn’t shout and scream, showing that by this point it's just become natural to him. His hatred of the Daleks now is a part of him as much as his heroic qualities.
I also as I said before think that 11’s hatred of them made perfect sense after the way 10 played off of them. 10 as we saw tried to show mercy to them, which turned out badly for him and his friends like Harriet Jones and Donna Noble. Thus 11, unlike 10 who tried to hide his hatred for them, embraces it. He is more determined than ever to destroy the Daleks after all he went through at their hands in his 10th incarnation. In real life Matt Smith absolutely loved the Daleks and even remarked that he found it difficult to hate them on screen as he loved them so much.
12th Doctor & Daleks:
Now I am not going to go into too much detail here as the 12th Doctor’s era has only begun and he has only had 1 story against the Daleks so far. Still he has shown promise to have an interesting dynamic w/ them. Much like 3, 9, & 11, he's shown to have a deep hatred of them. Obviously Capaldi can do anger very well and is also brilliant at capturing the Doctors dark side.
However again, it's still too early to say how 12’s relationship will develop w/ them, but the character of Rusty a benevolent Dalek, or rather a Dalek that just hates it's own kind certainly looks like it could offer up a fresh dynamic btw the Doctor and his oldest and deadliest enemy.
Conclusion:
As you can see the Doctors relationship w/ the Daleks has changed over the years, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst, but it's still always been a very complex and interesting relationship nonetheless. Personally I’d say the best Dalek Doctors on screen are 2, 9, 1, 11, 3 and 10 in that order.***
***Potential for a very different #12 and Clara dynamic post-'Last Christmas' - ...I'm glad that she's staying b/c they have an opportunity to explore their relationship even further now that they understand each other more.***
ReplyDeleteUnderstand one another? What else do you need to know after Clara's "believed" assault and threat/blackmail trying to get Danny back in "Dark Water?" He's not as bad as she thought; actually trying to help her after her treachery!
***Exactly! I think they do understand each other now - which is why, after some time apart, they're ready to come back together as friends and travel now w/ a better dynamic btwn them. While I compared this change in dynamic to #6 and Peri, the comparison to #5 and Tegan is just as appropriate.
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I'm tired of companions always saving the day or being a part of saving. It diminishes the Doctor's status as Earth's protector. They need to go back to companions being casual observers rather than plot points.***
Well you see what happens when The Doctor is left to his own devices going back to "The Wedding Of River Song!" While in that time loop, he just languished in a cell until Churchill decided to listen to him again! Amy had to finally rescue him, taking all concerned to "Area 52!"
***That was just a poorly written plot. The Doctor can't be contained in a cell. That's why the universe banded together to create the Pandorica Box to trap him inside. Besides, there's a difference btw assisting the Doctor and leading him by the nose.
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Like any long running series, "Doctor Who" is bound to polarize its devoted fandom. There are some things that are nearly universally beloved like Roger Delgado, 'Genesis of the Daleks,' David Tennant, Tom Baker, 'An Adventure in Space and Time, Blink, Caves of Androzani,' Bob Holmes etc. Some that divide fandom intensely to huge fanboy wars, RTD, Moffat, Terry Nation, John Simm Master, Missy, JNT, gender bending among Time Lords. Others are near universally despised like Eric Roberts', Master, Adric, Dodo. It's funny though how reactions can change over time though like 'Caves of Androzani' wasn't seen as anything special when it 1st aired, but now it's a huge deal.
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The Valeyard is a good villain... when he seems like just another bureaucratic Gallifreyan villain, like those we encountered in the past Gallifrey serials! It's only the ridiculous final twist about who he is that puts a damper on the character. ...I've always assumed that the Valeyard actually being the dark side of the Doctor's own personality was just made up by Pip and Jane Baker, and has nothing to do w/ Holmes and Saward's original story.***
The more exposure you had w/ The Time Lords, the more it may have been justified that Daleks and other species have gone after Gallifrey! Being all omniscient can be wearing; even in a robotic states of Cybermen & Daleks!
***Haven't Watched Doctor Who In Ages - Which do you suggest?
ReplyDelete1st Doctor--17/19
-An Unearthly Child
-The Daleks
-Edge Of Destruction
-The Keys Of Marinus
-The Aztecs
-The Sensorites
-The Reign Of Terror
-The Dalek Invasion Of Earth
-The Romans
-The Web Planet
-The Space Museum
-The Chase
-The Time Meddler
-The Ark
-The Gunfighters
-The War Machines
-The Tenth Planet
2nd Doctor--5/11
-The Moonbase
-Tomb Of The Cybermen
-The Invasion
-The Mind Robber
-The Seeds Of Death
3rd Doctor 21/24
-Spearhead From Space
-The Silurians
-The Ambassadors Of Death
-Terror Of The Autons
-The Mind Of Evil
-The Claws Of Axos
-Colony In Space
-The Daemons
-Day Of The Daleks
-The Curse Of Peladon
-The Sea Devils
-The Mutants
-The Time Monster
-The Three Doctors
-Carnival Of Monsters
-Frontier In Space
-Planet Of The Daleks
-The Green Death
-The Time Warrior
-Death To The Daleks
-The Monster Of Peladon
4th Doctor 42/42
-Robot
-The Ark In Space
-The Sontaron Experiment
-Genesis Of The Daleks
-Revenge Of The Cybermen
-Terror Of The Zygons
-Planet Of Evil
-Pyramids Of Mars
-The Android Invasion
-The Brain Of Morbius
-The Seeds Of Doom
-The Masque Of Mandragora
-The Hand Of Fear
-The Deadly Assassin
-The Face Of Evil
-The Robots Of Death
-The Talons Of Weng Chiang
-Horror Of Fang Rock
-The Invisible Enemy
-Image Of The Fendahl
-The Sun Makers
-Underworld
-The Invasion Of Time
-The Ribos Operation
-The Pirate Planet
-The Stones Of Blood
-The Androids Of Tara
-The Power Of Kroll
-The Armageddon Factor
-Destiny Of The Daleks
-City Of Death
-The Creature From The Pit
-Nightmare Of Eden
-The Horns Of Nimon
-Shada
-The Leisure Hive
-Meglos
-Full Circle
-State Of Decay
-Warrior's Gate
-The Keeper Of Traken
-Logopolis
5th Doctor
-Castrovalva
-Earthshock
-Resurrection Of The Daleks
6th Doctor
-Mark Of The Rani
7th Doctor
-Dragonfire
-The Happiness Patrol
-The Curse Of Fenric - Which should I watch?
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Why not start w/ "Earthshock?" No better way to re-acquaint yourself w/ the show than the 1 where Adric dies.***
Now that wasn't nice as all! It's possible that little spoiler might not have been "common knowledge" even though it was discussed at length during the interviews of 50th ann. "past" Doctors' series!
***I was always led to believe that the 6th Doctor was the worst of the lot. Indeed, I took an intense dislike to him when the 5th just regenerated into him at the end of 'The Caves of Androzani.' But now that I've seen a full adventure w/ him, I have to say I quite enjoyed watching him in "Mark Of The Rani."
ReplyDeleteThere were a lot of very enjoyable quirks in Colin Baker's portrayal of 6. The intensely formal, somewhat snobbish accent, the perpetually acerbic tone, the vanity coupled w/ the horrendously colorful outfit all made 6 pretty unique among the Doctors. Basically, he was a somewhat more 'gentlemanly' (at least in terms of mannerisms and speech) version of 9 and to some extent 12. ...Now granted, I've only seen one serial, and I've been told some of his others are the very worst of the classic series, but for now at least, I find 6 to be, certainly not among the best, but definitely one of the most enjoyable and unique Doctors.***
So you missed Tribute episode from the 50th anniversary showings of past Doctor episodes? Colin gave us "Vengeance On Varos;" pretty good one!
***Praise your fave forgotten scenes. - In 'State Of Decay', there's a most amusing yet chilling scene where the guard captain pleads w/ Aukon that his men are dying in the rebel attack and Aukon coldly replies: "Then die; that is the purpose of guards. Now go!"
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In "The Pirate Planet," when K-9 is waiting w/ Mula in the Mentiads' pad for the Doctor et al. to arrive, and when the Doctor bursts through the door and booms, "Hello, K-9! Surprised to see me?" I love how K-9 exclaims brightly, "Amazed, Master!"
In "The Power of Kroll," when everyone in the control room is gazing anxiously at the monitor as Kroll is on the move, I love the way the Doctor remarks w/ mock glee, "Oh, look! He's coming this way!"
I'd have to look at the scene again to get the wording right, but in "The Brain of Morbius" I love how Solon disparages Condo as being a "chicken-brained biological disaster!" Even the Captain w/ all his sky demons in "The Pirate Planet" couldn't match that one.
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10 ways "Doctor Who" has misused The Master***
Misused and overused! I've raged in that past of those seasons when the Doctor (Pertwee) was stuck on Earth and the Master was behind every plot, even if aliens like "The Sea Devils" fronted the drama initially! It was all ridiculous; the plots, the sets, the costumes! There's so many of them I just didn't keep in my collection of VHS tapes when recording in the 80's!
***Yep the stories are almost just rehashes of each other. Master brings an alien threat to Earth, realises he's bitten off more than he can chew, then has to seek the Doctor's help in defeating it. The ending of "Terror Of The Autons" is a bit of a cop out, Doctor just pleads with him and he realises it's not such a good idea. "Claws Of Axos" arguably didn't need the Master. As the article says, he's best in "Colony In Space" and "Frontier In Space." ...I just wish they'd made that story instead of Planet of the Daleks!***